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[quote=hittheroadjack;35635017]I second the motion......[/
There are several Puerto Rico forums already. Cafe Boricua is a well organized forum but it's only in Spanish. Puertorico.com is a forum that's been established for years but in the last several years posters have disappeared and I bet the forum is looking for new posters to revive it. It's format is similar to this one but it's bilingual. Nonetheless one can write in either language, but most posters are English only responders when they post.
Then there is Facebook which is not a forum but some sections function like a forum. For some strange reason a great number of sections where I participate are for statehood but the posters refuse to respond in English. When I've answered posts in English they either respond in Spanish or just plain disappear. Something is wrong with this picture.
Finally there is Estado 51, which is questionable if it still exists. I have a feeling they just want to hear their point of view only and restrict members. Not good to exist in a bubble while the world passes you by.
That's because voting in PR is like fantasy baseball leagues up here...something people do as part of the day-to-day culture, I'd be so bold as to call it folklore; it is not indicative of the people's awareness (or understanding) of socio-economic or geopolitical issues.
Now, bear in mind, as much as I think the voting system in the CONUS is an outright joke (electoral college and the racket two party system), voting in PR is hilarious. If I had a quarter for every time they have voted in senatorial or representative candidates to any of the two state houses based on the fact that the person is a local TV personality, I'd have a downpayment on a house. There is no substance to why people get elected down there, it's crazy. It's literally a sport.
People look "involved" to you primarily because it provides a HUGE social scene outside, the equivalent of block parties up here, where people go to drink and eat and holler, and yes, dance salsa and merengue in the streets. It is not uncommon to have party rallies that consist fundamentally of a concert setup, with a stage and hired local bands...you can't really tell you're there to talk about politics unless you pay attention to the sea of flags for the particular party; in essence you can't really tell it apart from any other garden variety concert. If this doesn't solidify the notion that voting turnout doesn't equate to involvement, then I don't know what will.
The other thing that's noteworthy about voting trends in the island is the single-issue paradigm down there. People either vote blue (statehood) or red (commonwealth/status quo)...and to a lesser extent green (independence) when that party actually gets enough primary votes to even get a gubernatorial candidate on the november ballot. So, any one candidate can be an outright crook, and this cycles among parties, and it doesn't make any difference to the populace, they'll still drink and dance on the streets and go vote that morning and proceed to drink and dance some more on the post-election celebration camps at the parties' HQs. The only problem with all this is that there hasn't been a SINGLE referendum on territorial status since the 1998 and that one resulted in a flop, congress wouldn't take it seriously and neither did many on the island. Yet that's people's primary impetus for voting. Everybody is concerned about the economy and the escalating crime and educational pitfalls of the island, yet when it comes to voting for change it just doesn't happen because people vote with their feet about a status question that's not even on the ballot and will be unlikely to change.
Granted, much of the reason nothing can get done down there regarding education, wages, crime and cost-of-living DOES stem from the status ambiguity inherited by such colonial status, but as much as it pains me and my family (which are of pro-statehood affiliation, though now as retired folks with both children effectively living their statehood by physically relocating to the CONUS permanently this question is hardly relevant anymore) such status will not get resolved any time soon and hence puts the island in the precarious situation of not really being able to take a substantial hack at any of these problems. Voter turnout would indeed be a rather poor yardstick with which to measure the "involvment" of the people in the interest of their future.
While a lot of what you say is true, but does it strictly apply only to us? Sometimes I can't believe how the most important nation on this planet puts people in office like Sarah Palin, who is basically illiterate, Michelle Bachman who rants against gays but is married to one and senator Inhofe who Denies science as a hoax. Americans have even nominated a candidate that had to go on the air to deny she was a witch. I could go on and on but I won't have space and my fingers will tire. Do Puerto Ricans go to the polls and vote for who ever meets their fancy , and don't know where they stand on the issues, you bet, but Americans aren't rocket scientists either.
While a lot of what you say is true, but does it strictly apply only to us? Sometimes I can't believe how the most important nation on this planet puts people in office like Sarah Palin, who is basically illiterate, Michelle Bachman who rants against gays but is married to one and senator Inhofe who Denies science as a hoax. Americans have even nominated a candidate that had to go on the air to deny she was a witch. I could go on and on but I won't have space and my fingers will tire. Do Puerto Ricans go to the polls and vote for who ever meets their fancy , and don't know where they stand on the issues, you bet, but Americans aren't rocket scientists either.
the Sarah Palin obsession from the left is hysterical. Here is a person who has NEVER been elected to the federal government and only was governor of Alaska for less than 1 term and the left still bashes her. Alaska is one of the few good states in the country left.
I wouldn't worry about the "dumb" conservatives......we should be worry more about the "smart" liberal intellectuals who are decades running the establishment like Nancy Pelosi, Barbara Boxer and Harry Reid who want to convince women that "they" are going to take away their abortion pills and that the federal government is the answer to everything.....lol
There are several Puerto Rico forums already. Cafe Boricua is a well organized forum but it's only in Spanish. Puertorico.com is a forum that's been established for years but in the last several years posters have disappeared and I bet the forum is looking for new posters to revive it. It's format is similar to this one but it's bilingual. Nonetheless one can write in either language, but most posters are English only responders when they post.
Then there is Facebook which is not a forum but some sections function like a forum. For some strange reason a great number of sections where I participate are for statehood but the posters refuse to respond in English. When I've answered posts in English they either respond in Spanish or just plain disappear. Something is wrong with this picture.
Finally there is Estado 51, which is questionable if it still exists. I have a feeling they just want to hear their point of view only and restrict members. Not good to exist in a bubble while the world passes you by.
Cafe Boricua is run by woman (chismosa) who is Anti-U.S.A but has lived most of her life in the states and bashes and censors anybody that opposes the colony status or talks negative about the PPD PARTY and their leaders and is always asking for money so she can pay for her forum, I was there 4 years ago and she was annoying always asking for money and for me to recruit more people to her forum, I left,! That's the unofficial PPD forum and an Obama forum second. Many people won't go to that forum because of her.
Puerto Rico.com is in the ground due to the moderators (fearless & tipoconsuerte, el alicate de fearless) who have censored and banned many people they disagree with or couldn't debate within the years. The only person that still bothers to post there is you....LMAO! ........when you allow moderators to debate in their own forum who have thin skin and don't have debating skills and are not too bright they kinda use their moderating powers to over-moderate or shut down the opposition. That's why that forum sucks but what do the moderators care? they are not paying to keep the servers up in that forum, any organization is as good as the people who run it, that says it all about the forum in Puerto Rico.com. They should close that forum, a waste of internet space and a waste of server but they might come here and run this forum to the ground....lol
Facebook have the best forums to debate different points of view and you don't have moderators who think their point of view is the ONLY truth or over-moderate or have thin skin.
Cafe Boricua is run by woman (chismosa) who is Anti-U.S.A but has lived most of her life in the states and bashes and censors anybody that opposes the colony status or talks negative about the PPD PARTY and their leaders and is always asking for money so she can pay for her forum, I was there 4 years ago and she was annoying always asking for money and for me to recruit more people to her forum, I left,! That's the unofficial PPD forum and an Obama forum second. Many people won't go to that forum because of her.
Puerto Rico.com is in the ground due to the moderators (fearless & tipoconsuerte, el alicate de fearless) who have censored and banned many people they disagree with or couldn't debate within the years. The only person that still bothers to post there is you....LMAO! ........when you allow moderators to debate in their own forum who have thin skin and don't have debating skills and are not too bright they kinda use their moderating powers to over-moderate or shut down the opposition. That's why that forum sucks but what do the moderators care? they are not paying to keep the servers up in that forum, any organization is as good as the people who run it, that says it all about the forum in Puerto Rico.com. They should close that forum, a waste of internet space and a waste of server but they might come here and run this forum to the ground....lol
Facebook have the best forums to debate different points of view and you don't have moderators who think their point of view is the ONLY truth or over-moderate or have thin skin.
This post made me laugh. You might be correct on some points. LOL
However some guys were kicked out of PR.com because they became down right insulting personally. I understand that forums are to discuss ideas , if so, but mostly they are a means of entertainment. Tit for tats are common, that's when people tune in, for the ghetto like drama. LOL There is a lot of rabble in all forums, some folks don't seem to have a 5th grade education, while there are some in between, and some very educated persons, but these last ones leave when that going gets into insults and flaming.
Face book is interesting if you get into a group. Plain face book is a mass of stupidity, recipes, narcissistic messages from lonely people and religious fundamentalism. A lot of folks are way below the educated pale. I participate, like I said , for entertainment value, get a few laughs, get a gist on how people think and then discuss it with students of social psychology.
This post made me laugh. You might be correct on some points. LOL
However some guys were kicked out of PR.com because they became down right insulting personally. I understand that forums are to discuss ideas , if so, but mostly they are a means of entertainment. Tit for tats are common, that's when people tune in, for the ghetto like drama. LOL There is a lot of rabble in all forums, some folks don't seem to have a 5th grade education, while there are some in between, and some very educated persons, but these last ones leave when that going gets into insults and flaming.
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a lot of people were kicked out of PR.COM because the rules don't apply to all especially moderators and people who share their point of view. That's why it was a BAD idea to have the 2 moderators in P.R com "debate" in their own forums with the opposition. Like the Puerto Rican saying goes: "lo que es igual no es ventaja"
an organization is as good as the people who run it and set the tone. That's why PR.COM is dead. I sometimes go in there to read when I'm bored and laugh how low it is and how desperate and clueless the moderators are who drove that forum to the ground but they don't care, they don't pay to keep the servers up......LOL
[domain blocked due to spam] Puerto Rico is pretty decent although virtually all status discussions tend to lean towards pro-statehood or at least a pro-unionist viewpoint. There are only 2 pro-separatist posters are they rarely post.
CafeBoricua does not surprise me in the least, Nuyoricans have always tended to lean towards the PPD which in turn has always had a love affair with the national Democratic Party. The Populares have long sought to expel the pro-statehood fraction of the Puerto Rico Democratic Party and more or less merge the two parties into one.
The irony of it all is that most Populares would be considered too moderate or even outright conservative by the standards of the "progressive" Democratic Party.
The post that challenged the integrity of Puerto Rico elections is way off if he thinks that somehow we are less serious about rulers than most states. The present federal deadlock and do nothing Congress is very indicative that many people in the states simply have no idea about who or what they are electing.
It is my experience that Puerto Rican voters as a whole.are much more in tune with what politicans support and stand for than many people voting in many states. Like it or not the people get what they vote for.
Yes, if the moderators of any forum are rabid posters and have radical or unfair postings, they will remove anyone disagreeing. I once posted on a forum about Puerto Rico that was not political. It had two persons who were of Puerto Rican descent who could say nothing good about PR. To believe them would make anyone think that we here on the island lived in some kind of hell-hole. They would allow no challenges.
This illustrates the caveat that one must very carefully weigh all the sources and infirmatiin befire making judgements. Such is the internet.
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