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This question ties into the other thread on this board about the crime rate in PR.
Will statehood allow the DEA or FBI and/or the newly formed State of PR government to combat the drug trade and accompanying violence more effectively?
Last edited by unPescador; 01-04-2012 at 12:44 PM..
This question ties into the other thread on this board about the crime rate in PR.
Will statehood allow the DEA or FBI and/or the newly formed State of PR government to combat the drug trade and accompanying violence more effectively?
There would be greater awareness of Puerto Rico's problems due to the island having 2 senators and 5-6 congressional representatives rather than just 1 non-voting delegate. They could get additional funding and grants (for example my county sheriff's department has received a 2nd boat for their marine unit paid entirely by a federal Homeland Security grant), they could push for more federal law enforcement resources to be devoted to the island, etc. So yes it would help combat the crime and drug smuggling problems. Statehood would go a long towards getting more resources and attention for Puerto Rico.
Do you think there is something inherently laughable and hypocritical about someone who lives in the U.S. and is pro-PR independence? I think so. They won't even live and in and take part in the experiment that they want to embark upon. Makes no sense.
That is a very dumb statement. Should we discount people's opinions unless they live on the island, were born on the island, have all their money on the island? Secondly, who said anything about not taking part in the experiment just because one does not permanently reside in PR? Are you saying you can only effect change or have no influence or impact unless you are a permanent resident of PR?
I do not allege to have all the answers for PR, but we all know what isn't working and hasn't been working: "Commonwealth" status. You don't need to be a permanent resident to see that. So the options are Independence or Statehood, and my logic for choosing Independence are quite simple:
Would you rather live your entire life with your STEPfather, in his basement apt? He provides shelter, and much of your basic necessities are taken care of. However you live under his rules, he controls everything, and dictates your entire life. You will never "grow up", get married, have kids, etc. It is secure though.
OR
Would you like to TRY and live on your own, and create your own life, whatever that may be. It comes with the risk that you completely fail, become a drug addict, in jail, or worse. It also means you can choose your own destiny, and be successful, maybe find the cure for cancer? You don't know unless you try.
This is a very simplistic view, but those who believe Statehood is the only way are basically saying PR will inevitably fail, and thus should be happy with it's pittance and enjoy the basement apt. We can make the basement apt very nice...add new windows, new furniture, make it cozy!
I do not believe that to be the case, however I do believe PRs are brainwashed to believe that and have basically given up on the idea that life can exist without a master.
So at the end of the day, I would rather PR TRY and work towards independence, rather than simply be absorbed into the US (moreso than it already is). However, at this point I don't really care...we need to make a choice one way or another, because it is the limbo status of Commonwealth that is hurting us far more than anything else. Until we resolve our own identity and place, we can never move forward.
I think there is something to be said for those who try and fail, rather than not try at all. I also think there is something to be said for those who earn everything themselves, depend on nobody, and create their own existence, whatever that may be. It may mean you don't have granite countertops, drive a mercedes, or live in a 5000 sf home...but what you do have is pride, respect for the things you have and yourself, and are invested in improving your lot and the lot of others, as everyone is working towards the same goal: improvement.
That is a very dumb statement. Should we discount people's opinions unless they live on the island, were born on the island, have all their money on the island? Secondly, who said anything about not taking part in the experiment just because one does not permanently reside in PR? Are you saying you can only effect change or have no influence or impact unless you are a permanent resident of PR?
I do not allege to have all the answers for PR, but we all know what isn't working and hasn't been working: "Commonwealth" status. You don't need to be a permanent resident to see that. So the options are Independence or Statehood, and my logic for choosing Independence are quite simple:
Would you rather live your entire life with your STEPfather, in his basement apt? He provides shelter, and much of your basic necessities are taken care of. However you live under his rules, he controls everything, and dictates your entire life. You will never "grow up", get married, have kids, etc. It is secure though.
OR
Would you like to TRY and live on your own, and create your own life, whatever that may be. It comes with the risk that you completely fail, become a drug addict, in jail, or worse. It also means you can choose your own destiny, and be successful, maybe find the cure for cancer? You don't know unless you try.
This is a very simplistic view, but those who believe Statehood is the only way are basically saying PR will inevitably fail, and thus should be happy with it's pittance and enjoy the basement apt. We can make the basement apt very nice...add new windows, new furniture, make it cozy!
I do not believe that to be the case, however I do believe PRs are brainwashed to believe that and have basically given up on the idea that life can exist without a master.
So at the end of the day, I would rather PR TRY and work towards independence, rather than simply be absorbed into the US (moreso than it already is). However, at this point I don't really care...we need to make a choice one way or another, because it is the limbo status of Commonwealth that is hurting us far more than anything else. Until we resolve our own identity and place, we can never move forward.
I think there is something to be said for those who try and fail, rather than not try at all. I also think there is something to be said for those who earn everything themselves, depend on nobody, and create their own existence, whatever that may be. It may mean you don't have granite countertops, drive a mercedes, or live in a 5000 sf home...but what you do have is pride, respect for the things you have and yourself, and are invested in improving your lot and the lot of others, as everyone is working towards the same goal: improvement.
I hate it break it to you .... but there are no truly independent countries in the Caribbean. The islands are too dependent on external aid and money.
There are either possessions of the US, France, the Netherlands, or the UK or there are possessions of the World Bank and the IMF. Take your pick. Get out of the 1960s era liberation nonsense and see how the world really works. 50 years after Jamaica became "independent" from the UK roughly 60% of the population say they would have been better off had they remained a British colony.
Why are so many Dominicans and Haitians dying trying to get to Puerto Rico?
Yes..and there was a time when there was no cure for polio, and no computers, and no idea that anyone could ever fly. It's called change...just because something hasn't happened before has nothing to do with what will or may happen.
I have no more interest in the plight of Jamaicans as I do in the plight of Swedes...as it pertains to the future of PR that is. You could list off a 100 failures, maybe the US should have listened to you and stayed a possession of the British..afterall...it was the key to success and security right?
You can live your life never going outside for fear of getting hit by a car, or maybe never eating food for fear of choking to death, or never getting out of bed for fear of falling and smashing your head...but I'd rather not. Your list of failed Haiti and Dominican Republic is the usual fear tactics...too bad your mom didn't scare you into staying home and in bed your whole life....it's safer after all right? You did hear about those kids getting kidnapped, they even get shot and killed at school! Now don't ever get out of bed...it's in your best interest.
There is no doubt that there are inherent risks in everything we do..but that's life and the rewards are there. I am still unclear why we can't TRY????
Independence is not an immediate separation where the US pulls out and walks away leaving residents with no homes, no business, and no economy. It is a gradual process wherein PR gradually regains control, implements its own laws, negotiates its own treaties, and institutes new processes and procedures for true independence and not the current misnomer of "self-autonomy". It would be likely dual citizenship would be granted, the dollar would still be used, and military protection afforded for an undetermined amount of time, as would US financial assistance to complete the transition.
Does any of this sound crazy? Does any of this sound like it will spin the country out of control and become Haiti? NO..so please stop the usual "you will be Haiti" boogeyman stories we have been told for generations. It's that view that keeps us enslaved...we are paralyzed by that fear...and it is unfounded.
Why is the DR mentioned as a failed country? It has been growing every year. All you have to do is look at is GDP. There is also an incredible boom in Santo Domingo, including the construction of the second metro line. Also, you want to speak about Dominicans going to Puerto Rico (which is usually just a stepping stone to the real goal of reaching the United States), then I could say the same about Puerto Ricans attending Universities in the Dominican. That's for another thread however.
I don't see Puerto Rico making it on it's own. With all due respect (and with absolutely no attempt at trolling), it is too small. It would have to compete with it's bigger neighbors, who can produce much more than Puerto Rico can. I don't see it competing even with tourism. It has lost a lot of it's Jibaro (which is real PR ) culture. So even if it was to break away, it has lost it's exotic feel. It has been Americanized to the point that a tourist wanting to go to San Juan, might as well go to Miami.
I would like to see Puerto Rico try. So I am in agreement with Sobroguy. It may not work, but independence is something you should always strive for. It has been the main cause of war and uprisings in the entire history of the world. People would die for it. Puerto Rico, why can't you step out on your own?
Why is the DR mentioned as a failed country? It has been growing every year. All you have to do is look at is GDP. There is also an incredible boom in Santo Domingo, including the construction of the second metro line. Also, you want to speak about Dominicans going to Puerto Rico (which is usually just a stepping stone to the real goal of reaching the United States), then I could say the same about Puerto Ricans attending Universities in the Dominican. That's for another thread however.
I don't see Puerto Rico making it on it's own. With all due respect (and with absolutely no attempt at trolling), it is too small. It would have to compete with it's bigger neighbors, who can produce much more than Puerto Rico can. I don't see it competing even with tourism. It has lost a lot of it's Jibaro (which is real PR ) culture. So even if it was to break away, it has lost it's exotic feel. It has been Americanized to the point that a tourist wanting to go to San Juan, might as well go to Miami.
I would like to see Puerto Rico try. So I am in agreement with Sobroguy. It may not work, but independence is something you should always strive for. It has been the main cause of war and uprisings in the entire history of the world. People would die for it. Puerto Rico, why can't you step out on your own?
I never said they can't, I said it's not viable ... not to mention that 85-90% of Puerto Ricans don't want independence. Most of the world's remaining "colonies" (and I use that term very loosely) retain their status because independence just isent viable due to lack of natural resources or economic problems, external threats, lack of economic diversity (ie: offshore banking firms which would all leave if ____ became independent), or the simple lack of desire for the idea (as in Puerto Rico). It has nothing to do with wanting to have a 'master' as SobroGuy. Another reason is the highly coveted European Union status that the British, French, Dutch, and Danish territories have.
Let me ask you this. Let's say it goes bad. What then? Go running back to Uncle Sam? You guys don't seem to realize that independence isent a computer game where you can go back to the last save point and have a do-over. Once your out your out ... and if things go bad then 3,000,000 people are farked. There's a famous saying over in Northern Ireland that the Puerto Rican independence activists would do well to remember: you can't eat a flag. People don't care about silly national pride, they care about putting food on the table and money in their wallets.
Let me ask you this. Let's say it goes bad. What then? Go running back to Uncle Sam? You guys don't seem to realize that independence isent a computer game where you can go back to the last save point and have a do-over. Once your out your out ... and if things go bad then 3,000,000 people are farked. There's a famous saying over in Northern Ireland that the Puerto Rican independence activists would do well to remember: you can't eat a flag. People don't care about silly national pride, they care about putting food on the table and money in their wallets.
That's a very good point. Success is not guaranteed. To be brutally honest, I think Puerto Rico has too much going against it. How many islands Puerto Rico's size are successful? Jamaica is not doing particularly well, and if I'm not mistaken it receives some kind of aid from the U.K. The DR while improving, still has many problems, and it's much bigger than Puerto Rico. Same with Haiti, Cuba, etc.... It's going to be a struggle for P.R. But other nations are in the struggle, and they are still afloat.
It's a hard decision.
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