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Old 12-04-2007, 09:41 PM
 
Location: Fountain Hills, Arizona
416 posts, read 2,361,310 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NJ Chutzpah View Post
Is Puerto Rico a racially integrated place? Or is like Mexico where the euro descendants dominate, and just make themselves rich by holding everyone else down.
Puerto Rico is far more diverse than Mexico.

 
Old 12-05-2007, 04:54 PM
 
1,729 posts, read 4,519,045 times
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Question To: hindsight2020

Quote:
Originally Posted by hindsight2020 View Post
I would say those with more apparent european look tend to fare better. Because of the cultural uniqueness to day-to-day living in PR and the small land area/high population density in the metro areas, Puerto Ricans of all racial heritages intermingle well. However, do not be misled by that, racial hierarchies are alive and well in PR and yes, the PR bourgeoisie is predominantly white. The difference is as I said before, in PR said person only has to deal with racial differences, as culturally they are somewhat homogeneous. When moving to the CONUS, in the abscence of racial AND cultural commonalities, the frictions are more apparent and perceived as harsher. This was predominantly the birth cause of the "newyorican" and other flavors of third-generation cultural identities in the CONUS. This would be the closest equivalent to "chicanos" for the Mexicans. Historically, both groups' (more newyoricans, chicanos to a lesser extent) almost instant graviation to the African-American influence in defining such identities up here, created a sense in which the rest of this country accepts at face value that white Mexicans, Puerto Ricans and Cubans cannot possibly exist.

So, the above poster is correct as well, there is still a lot of misconceptions in terms of the racial makeup of PR. Just like Méjico, a substantial segment of the population in places like Cuba and PR is made up by people who would be considered as "white" up in the CONUS. I would know, I live in Louisiana and until my mother calls me on the cell phone and I start talking in that very native "puertorriqueño" flavor of spanish, people would never know I'm Hispanic.
You seem to be probably the best person to answer my question, since you are a native Puerto Rican and connect with your family often: What impact has the current influx of people from Santo Domingo, who have invaded the Island illegally, via boats, in their quest of becoming USA citizens, and who are poor and mostly Black, have had on this island? Thank you,
 
Old 12-05-2007, 06:52 PM
 
2,541 posts, read 10,522,733 times
Reputation: 968
What is a CONUS?

Most of the nuyoricans are what: mixed, black, or white?
 
Old 12-06-2007, 11:05 AM
 
Location: The Circle City. Sometimes NE of Bagdad.
19,578 posts, read 20,368,612 times
Reputation: 50510
[quote=NJ Chutzpah;2178485]What is a CONUS?

CONUS = Continental United States.
 
Old 12-07-2007, 09:28 AM
 
1,772 posts, read 4,072,971 times
Reputation: 4740
Quote:
Originally Posted by RUBIES77 View Post
You seem to be probably the best person to answer my question, since you are a native Puerto Rican and connect with your family often: What impact has the current influx of people from Santo Domingo, who have invaded the Island illegally, via boats, in their quest of becoming USA citizens, and who are poor and mostly Black, have had on this island? Thank you,
The influx of "Dominicanos" into Puerto Rico can be described by paralleling it with rural Mexicans crossing the border into the United States. Most want better wages and, of course, the chance at becoming US citizens. The response from the folks in PR has been similar as in the states with regards to illegal mexicans. Most Dominicanos are looked at by PR folks as racially inferior, since Dominicans are more predominantly of the black, mulato(black/white) or zambo(black/indigenous) flavor, more so than mestizo(white/indigenous) or straight up white; although once again, you go to Santo Domingo and/or other popular destinations and be amazed at the fact that they too are racially diverse. When they get to the island they take up mostly manual labor jobs at even further depressed wages. They live in ghettos like present day Rio Piedras city proper, and perpetuate the alienation that paints them in a more negative light.

At risk of sounding politically incorrect, but the predominant feeling in the island is that these folks (illegal Dominicans) are extremely hard working, and simple in nature and desires, whereas Puertoricans in the island of similar socioeconomics as the Dominicans flocking in, are accused of being lazy and better off exploiting the welfare system afforded to them by their citizenship, and many do fit that stereotype. This leads to an interesting dynamic where the immigrant is the one actually accusing the native of being the one creating his own demise, and as a native PR person I do welcome such criticism of the labor class in PR, albeit my stake in that matter now is low as I've fixed my personal circumstances by relocating CONUS. So I'd say Dominican relations could be presently described as "tense acceptance" of their presence, albeit considered third class in the social vine of the island if you will.

A Dominican woman nursed my grandmother at the catholic hospice she was being cared for during her last months (circa 2004) and I have nothing but admiration for the general work ethics of those Dominicans I've encountered. That is not to say that Rio Piedras (South of San Juan) has become a Dominican ghetto and that's one of the reasons folks from the island are not too pleased with the influx. With the ghetto comes internal crime, which also spills over to the more common native PR drug trafficking problem, which now has poor Dominicans to add to the labor mix. Is the influx going away? Hardly. So it's an ongoing problem that the island will have to add to its already full plate of things to fix. Who knows what it will look like in another decade.

As to the other poster's question about newyoricans. I think anybody whose followed the history and migration of Puerto Ricans to the mainland in the mid 20th century can safely say that the majority of those present-day second and third generation newyoricans are racially a mix of whatever they were when they left the island (majority mestizo and mulato..I hate to use old colonial racial descriptors but it's the easiest way to simplify) and what folks in the mainland call "interacial" i.e. Hispanic (in the eyes of mainlanders) and African Americans. The key here is the black influence in the cultural and racial markup of what previously was a purely Caribbean cultural identity. This is the main difference from first-generation migration examples (such as myself for example) even when such migrations occured 60 years apart. A newyorican is much more likely to speak of the island in possesive but have children who've never seen it. Their spanish is more properly spanglish. Their cultural day-to-day, in spite of the fact that it is self-assesed to be "puertorro" (slang for Puerto Rican), is more properly urban and in line with the burough living reality of NYC (de facto black) when assesed from a native islander. Don't tell Rosie Perez or J. Lo that, but they make the case for itself. As to why the original racial markup of those to become newyoricans did not include more whites, I can't really offer a historically accepted reason other than highlighting the usual suspects of the race/socioeconomic level relationship of forever, particularly in 1950s Puerto Rico.

Clear as mud?
 
Old 12-07-2007, 11:42 AM
 
Location: Mesa, Az
21,146 posts, read 38,112,751 times
Reputation: 3813
Quote:
Originally Posted by hindsight2020 View Post
The influx of "Dominicanos" into Puerto Rico can be described by paralleling it with rural Mexicans crossing the border into the United States. Most want better wages and, of course, the chance at becoming US citizens. The response from the folks in PR has been similar as in the states with regards to illegal mexicans. Most Dominicanos are looked at by PR folks as racially inferior, since Dominicans are more predominantly of the black, mulato(black/white) or zambo(black/indigenous) flavor, more so than mestizo(white/indigenous) or straight up white; although once again, you go to Santo Domingo and/or other popular destinations and be amazed at the fact that they too are racially diverse. When they get to the island they take up mostly manual labor jobs at even further depressed wages. They live in ghettos like present day Rio Piedras city proper, and perpetuate the alienation that paints them in a more negative light.

At risk of sounding politically incorrect, but the predominant feeling in the island is that these folks (illegal Dominicans) are extremely hard working, and simple in nature and desires, whereas Puertoricans in the island of similar socioeconomics as the Dominicans flocking in, are accused of being lazy and better off exploiting the welfare system afforded to them by their citizenship, and many do fit that stereotype. This leads to an interesting dynamic where the immigrant is the one actually accusing the native of being the one creating his own demise, and as a native PR person I do welcome such criticism of the labor class in PR, albeit my stake in that matter now is low as I've fixed my personal circumstances by relocating CONUS. So I'd say Dominican relations could be presently described as "tense acceptance" of their presence, albeit considered third class in the social vine of the island if you will.

A Dominican woman nursed my grandmother at the catholic hospice she was being cared for during her last months (circa 2004) and I have nothing but admiration for the general work ethics of those Dominicans I've encountered. That is not to say that Rio Piedras (South of San Juan) has become a Dominican ghetto and that's one of the reasons folks from the island are not too pleased with the influx. With the ghetto comes internal crime, which also spills over to the more common native PR drug trafficking problem, which now has poor Dominicans to add to the labor mix. Is the influx going away? Hardly. So it's an ongoing problem that the island will have to add to its already full plate of things to fix. Who knows what it will look like in another decade.

As to the other poster's question about newyoricans. I think anybody whose followed the history and migration of Puerto Ricans to the mainland in the mid 20th century can safely say that the majority of those present-day second and third generation newyoricans are racially a mix of whatever they were when they left the island (majority mestizo and mulato..I hate to use old colonial racial descriptors but it's the easiest way to simplify) and what folks in the mainland call "interacial" i.e. Hispanic (in the eyes of mainlanders) and African Americans. The key here is the black influence in the cultural and racial markup of what previously was a purely Caribbean cultural identity. This is the main difference from first-generation migration examples (such as myself for example) even when such migrations occured 60 years apart. A newyorican is much more likely to speak of the island in possesive but have children who've never seen it. Their spanish is more properly spanglish. Their cultural day-to-day, in spite of the fact that it is self-assesed to be "puertorro" (slang for Puerto Rican), is more properly urban and in line with the burough living reality of NYC (de facto black) when assesed from a native islander. Don't tell Rosie Perez or J. Lo that, but they make the case for itself. As to why the original racial markup of those to become newyoricans did not include more whites, I can't really offer a historically accepted reason other than highlighting the usual suspects of the race/socioeconomic level relationship of forever, particularly in 1950s Puerto Rico.

Clear as mud?
I have to agree with you there 100%.

Note that part of why Puerto Rico is not more 'White' is because many of the PR people of Irish, etc. heritage left there many years ago for the CONUS and are now considered Anglo, not 'Hispanic'.
 
Old 12-08-2007, 11:42 AM
 
1,729 posts, read 4,519,045 times
Reputation: 850
Default To: hindsight2020

Thank you so very much for your comprehensive reply. Very much appreciated. Merry Xmas, and a Happy New Year to you and your family.
 
Old 12-08-2007, 01:38 PM
 
1,729 posts, read 4,519,045 times
Reputation: 850
Default To:hindsight2020

Would it be too much for you to look at the message I posted under "dogs," about what is happening to many of them in Puerto Rico. You gave me such a fantastic information in another post, about PR, but I could not find it. THANKS A MILLION!!!!!! I am new at this.
 
Old 12-08-2007, 01:58 PM
 
1,729 posts, read 4,519,045 times
Reputation: 850
Quote:
Originally Posted by NJ Chutzpah View Post
What is a CONUS?

Most of the nuyoricans are what: mixed, black, or white?
I believe the term Nuyoricans was given to the NY born ones. Most come in all colors, since I read sometime ago, that the Island was colonized by Spain, then the Dutch came in, and the French people. Many of them have last names that are not Spanish/Latino/Hispanic. It was also mentioned about indigenous people being there first, before the Blacks were brought in from Africa to cut the Sugar Canes. But, please, do not hold me down to this, I read this a long-time-ago.
 
Old 12-15-2007, 11:04 PM
 
3,368 posts, read 10,678,805 times
Reputation: 1679
Puerto Rico is much more diverse than Mexico. Believe it or not, most people on the island are white but there is a very large presence of mulatto (mixed white/black) and a smaller presence of mestizo (mixed white/Taino Indian) people. Whites are definitely better off in general, and rich areas like Guaynabo City and Dorado are very white.

Discrimination exists to to an extent, but it is to a much lesser degree than in most places in Latin America. Money overrides race in Puerto Rico. One of my dearest friends is black as night yet has never been discriminated against. Consequentially, his mother is the vice president of a bank and growing up, his family was the only non-white family in a gated community of about 50 upscale homes. On the mainland, African-Americans are puzzled by the fact that althoug he is so black, he "acts white!"

Historically, Puerto Ricans have celebrated their people as a mix of European, African, and Taino (Native Americans who originally inhabited the island before the Europeans came). However, it is readily apparent to any resident or visitor of the island that despite the fact that hundreds of years have passed since the Spanish arrived, racial differences persist. Though many people have mixed blood, many do not.

There is a sharp divide between Puerto Ricans from the island and "Newyoricans" from NY/NJ. Like someone has already said, many Newyoricans do not speak Spanish and most of the young Newyorican kids can barely speak it at all. In NYC, they tend to live in poorer neighborhoods and have taken on a street culture similar to that of urban African-Americans on tough neighborhoods. Newyoricans also tend to be mulatto (mixed white/black) and identify as being "minorities" distinct from the "white" American population. There is a distinct class issue too: I live in NYC and here, young Puerto Ricans (from the island, who haved moved here for work) and young Newyoricans for all practical purposes DO NOT MESH. A couple times when I have been speaking Spanish (I grew up in suburban Miami, not PR) with Puerto Rican friends here in NYC, Newyorican kids on the subway have looked at us as if we had three heads, likely due to our skin color (white) and the class differences they perceived (well-dressed people talking about law, real estate, and restaurants). Older Puerto Rican people from the island who raised their Newyorican kids in here in NYC don't bat an eye when I speak Spanish at a bodega or restaurant, but let me tell you, their kids sure do a double-take sometimes!
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