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Old 01-20-2008, 01:57 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hindsight2020 View Post
The influx of "Dominicanos" into Puerto Rico can be described by paralleling it with rural Mexicans crossing the border into the United States. Most want better wages and, of course, the chance at becoming US citizens. The response from the folks in PR has been similar as in the states with regards to illegal mexicans. Most Dominicanos are looked at by PR folks as racially inferior, since Dominicans are more predominantly of the black, mulato(black/white) or zambo(black/indigenous) flavor, more so than mestizo(white/indigenous) or straight up white; although once again, you go to Santo Domingo and/or other popular destinations and be amazed at the fact that they too are racially diverse. When they get to the island they take up mostly manual labor jobs at even further depressed wages. They live in ghettos like present day Rio Piedras city proper, and perpetuate the alienation that paints them in a more negative light.

At risk of sounding politically incorrect, but the predominant feeling in the island is that these folks (illegal Dominicans) are extremely hard working, and simple in nature and desires, whereas Puertoricans in the island of similar socioeconomics as the Dominicans flocking in, are accused of being lazy and better off exploiting the welfare system afforded to them by their citizenship, and many do fit that stereotype. This leads to an interesting dynamic where the immigrant is the one actually accusing the native of being the one creating his own demise, and as a native PR person I do welcome such criticism of the labor class in PR, albeit my stake in that matter now is low as I've fixed my personal circumstances by relocating CONUS. So I'd say Dominican relations could be presently described as "tense acceptance" of their presence, albeit considered third class in the social vine of the island if you will.

A Dominican woman nursed my grandmother at the catholic hospice she was being cared for during her last months (circa 2004) and I have nothing but admiration for the general work ethics of those Dominicans I've encountered. That is not to say that Rio Piedras (South of San Juan) has become a Dominican ghetto and that's one of the reasons folks from the island are not too pleased with the influx. With the ghetto comes internal crime, which also spills over to the more common native PR drug trafficking problem, which now has poor Dominicans to add to the labor mix. Is the influx going away? Hardly. So it's an ongoing problem that the island will have to add to its already full plate of things to fix. Who knows what it will look like in another decade.

As to the other poster's question about newyoricans. I think anybody whose followed the history and migration of Puerto Ricans to the mainland in the mid 20th century can safely say that the majority of those present-day second and third generation newyoricans are racially a mix of whatever they were when they left the island (majority mestizo and mulato..I hate to use old colonial racial descriptors but it's the easiest way to simplify) and what folks in the mainland call "interacial" i.e. Hispanic (in the eyes of mainlanders) and African Americans. The key here is the black influence in the cultural and racial markup of what previously was a purely Caribbean cultural identity. This is the main difference from first-generation migration examples (such as myself for example) even when such migrations occured 60 years apart. A newyorican is much more likely to speak of the island in possesive but have children who've never seen it. Their spanish is more properly spanglish. Their cultural day-to-day, in spite of the fact that it is self-assesed to be "puertorro" (slang for Puerto Rican), is more properly urban and in line with the burough living reality of NYC (de facto black) when assesed from a native islander. Don't tell Rosie Perez or J. Lo that, but they make the case for itself. As to why the original racial markup of those to become newyoricans did not include more whites, I can't really offer a historically accepted reason other than highlighting the usual suspects of the race/socioeconomic level relationship of forever, particularly in 1950s Puerto Rico.

Clear as mud?
Thank you so very much for your explanation!

 
Old 01-20-2008, 02:08 PM
 
Location: Mott Haven
2,978 posts, read 3,372,133 times
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Crisp welcome to NYC. It is unfortunate to say that I agree we your posting about these newyoricans who cover themselves, their cars, and their homes in flags, but cannot speak Spanish, have never been to the island, and have no understanding of being PR. They confuse the ghetto culture of the inner city with some sort of perverted Puerto RIcannes....I dunno how that has happened but that seems to be the case.

So when you are able to speak proper English or proper Spanish, are educated and present yourself that way, and don't subscribe to the ghetto thug lifestyle of ignorance, clothes that are 5x too large for you, etc...they are confused when you say you are PR..or represent yourself as such. The only "Puerto Ricans' they have ever seen are the JLo's, the Rosie Perez's, and the thuggish Nuyoricans surrounding them...none of which have anything to do with being Puerto Rican.

I am in Mott Haven so I have much to say on this topic. Private message me Crisp!
 
Old 01-23-2008, 10:36 AM
 
Location: NYC
364 posts, read 1,820,770 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Guywithacause View Post
Crisp welcome to NYC. It is unfortunate to say that I agree we your posting about these newyoricans who cover themselves, their cars, and their homes in flags, but cannot speak Spanish, have never been to the island, and have no understanding of being PR. They confuse the ghetto culture of the inner city with some sort of perverted Puerto RIcannes....I dunno how that has happened but that seems to be the case.

So when you are able to speak proper English or proper Spanish, are educated and present yourself that way, and don't subscribe to the ghetto thug lifestyle of ignorance, clothes that are 5x too large for you, etc...they are confused when you say you are PR..or represent yourself as such. The only "Puerto Ricans' they have ever seen are the JLo's, the Rosie Perez's, and the thuggish Nuyoricans surrounding them...none of which have anything to do with being Puerto Rican.


I am in Mott Haven so I have much to say on this topic. Private message me Crisp!
Agree. What you are describing is something that affects every culture in the world; and that's called: "The Second & Third Generations". They grow farther and farther away from the "original roots" to the extent that they can't even speak the language. Some Asian cultures are very strick about this and they DO teach their children their Native language. Still, second and third generations can't avoid the gap.

Back to the top: In my opinion, yes, Puerto Rico is more diverse than other countries such as Mexico. As mentioned in a previous post, the Puerto Rican cultures was formed by the mixture of Spanish-Black-White (European)and the Native people from the island. We are talking about hundreds of years ago of course.

Still, today you can see the mixture of colors and shapes even in families that share the same blood. It is no surprise to find people within the same family that have it all: light-dark skin, blue-green-dark-eyes, straigth-curly hair, tall-short...all withing the same family!
 
Old 02-13-2008, 05:15 PM
 
1,084 posts, read 3,306,031 times
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EdJones is absolutely right. I'm a third-generation Puerto Rican and my family is very mixed. I have blonde cousins with green eyes and uncles that could pass as Native Americans. When my youngest brother was born, the nurses did not understand why he was dark. My other two brothers are as white as snow and I'm lightly tanned. They keeped asking us if we were from the same father, LOL.
 
Old 02-17-2008, 01:37 PM
 
Location: Bronx, NY
5,551 posts, read 18,075,506 times
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Puerto Rico is predominantly white. According to a census 80% of the population is. Although I find this number to large, I do agree that PR is a white island. There is a hierachy in Puerto Rico, just like in Dominican Republic, Cuba and every other latin american country. The lighter you are, the better off you are. Dominican Republic is a racially mixed island. 16% white, 11% black and 73% mixed.
 
Old 02-19-2008, 07:42 AM
 
Location: Mott Haven
2,978 posts, read 3,372,133 times
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There is no way that Puerto Rico is predominantly white. Anyone that has ever been to the island or is actually PR would know this. PR is predominantly MIXED, however there is value in CLASSIFYING yourself as white, so the majority do. The reality is the country chooses to classify themselves as white, but they are in fact a mixed population....as are Cuba, DR.
 
Old 02-19-2008, 09:17 PM
 
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Yes. There is class hierarchy predicated on race in PR, and it is a fact that the predominant majority of Puerto Ricans (in the island, not newyoricans etc) are shades of mestizo. It is also noteworthy to point out that the vast majority of mestizos in PR classify themselves as unequivocally white. That's the source of your 80% white figure. There is a lot of self-hate among mestizos in the island, that's a lot of people in denial, which falls flat on the face of a population so accustomed to denigrating dominicans (which are historically predominantly mulato). Then on the other hand you have european leaning folks like myself who are frequently accused of being and/or having parents of "white american mixed" qualifiers because one is not a mestizo Puerto Rican a.k.a. the stereotypical perception of Hispanic in the CONUS. This happens to racially white Cubans, Mexicans, Colombians and Venezuelans in the CONUS, and Dominicans to a lesser extent, because of the same reason. It's quite entertaining actually to play with people's head sometimes lol. At any rate, I would put the proportion of white people vs. mestizo/mulato/zambo(very rare)/asians/ (yes they most certainly exist in PR) in the street as 4 per every 10 in the metro areas and 2 out of every 10 in the rest of the island, quite the opposite of 80%. Of course that would be true once you discount the population of CONUS-natives settled in the island, which is somewhat substantial in the metro area.
 
Old 02-23-2008, 01:04 PM
 
222 posts, read 640,537 times
Reputation: 91
Quote:
Originally Posted by Guywithacause View Post
There is no way that Puerto Rico is predominantly white. Anyone that has ever been to the island or is actually PR would know this. PR is predominantly MIXED, however there is value in CLASSIFYING yourself as white, so the majority do. The reality is the country chooses to classify themselves as white, but they are in fact a mixed population....as are Cuba, DR.
I agree!!!

It still amazes me that no one wants any association with black at any time and this includes Puerto Rico, Dominican Republic (please note Dominicans for the most part DO NOT accept black heritage), Cuba and most Latin American countries. People are very quick to say the African/black on the island died out years ago but meanwhile clinging to very little Taino hertiage. It is a fact that most Puerto Ricans consider themselves white. Even on the CD board mention that there are black spanish people, and everyone is in an uproar.

The average tourist visiting Puerto Rico never learns about the African history that is vivid and alive throughout the island. Too often, the Spanish and indigenous roots of Puerto Rico are highlighted to tourists while the African heritage is left unspoken. For many years, the Black history of Puerto Rico was even missing from Puerto Rico's history books. Thankfully as a new generation of conscious Puerto Ricans, both Black and mixed explore their African heritage, this erasure is ending. Please do research on Loiza, PR

The West Africans brought to the island spoke "bozal" Spanish, a mixture of Portuguese, Spanish, and Congo. Many Puerto Ricans have the habit of swallowing the "s," and often pronounce the "r" as an "l". This is because in the African tongue there is no "s" or "r" sound.

Sure TODAY there are European, Asian, and other cultures influence in PR. But let everyone tell it their influence is strictly European and people take it as fact.
 
Old 02-23-2008, 05:42 PM
 
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so then what is the percentages?
 
Old 02-26-2008, 04:25 PM
 
1,772 posts, read 4,072,424 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NJ Chutzpah View Post
so then what is the percentages?
That's the point. Demographics based on self-reporting are going to be useless, particularly among a society that's historically mixed since centuries ago to begin with. Mestizos in PR predominantly classify themselves as unequivocably white, which is incorrect, but reflects the social valuation of race in the island. My anectodal un-scientific hack at a percentage of racially white folks down there puts it at 30% for the whole island, which is quite the opposite of an 80% figure. Heck, some light skinned black people up in the CONUS literally pass under white in the island depending on who you ask, if that tells you anything about the metrics of race down there. Another one that's popular is the hair test. I kid you not, mestizo people in the island get to the point of arguing the texture of an individual's hair as a "defining" feature of the person's race, disregarding skin color altogether. I've seen these discussions among first-blood siblings no less, if you can believe that. It gets pretty retarded.
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