U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > U.S. Territories
 [Register]
U.S. Territories Puerto Rico, Guam, U.S. Virgin Islands, etc.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 06-01-2014, 07:10 AM
 
529 posts, read 987,114 times
Reputation: 492

Advertisements

Anti-English sentiment has a history on the island, and not a good one at that. As a conquered territory Puerto Rico already had a full fledged national awareness in 1898. The U.S. just coming into the business of Empire thought Puerto Ricans could be managed as they did with the Native Americans or Hawaiians, make them into humble English speakers and then later statehood might be offered. Teachers were brought in by the hundreds to teach the natives in English, Spanish was banned from public schools. Those who wanted statehood thought it was the best thing to do in order to fit into the white progressive nation of the north. Even Celso Barbosa, the founder of the statehood movement thought that if was better for all to , "mejorar la raza", become white. Ironically he was Black.

Puerto Ricans , like all people who feel conquered resist the imposition of any language by force as they did in Quebec, Catalonia etc.etc. The mere thought of bilingualism is seen by many, not as a tool for progress, but as a tool of assimilation and eventual disappearance like in Hawaii. Hawaiian culture is only used to entertain tourists now a days.

Statehood politicians KNOW that the US must feel that if Puerto Rico is to become a state English must eventually overtake Spanish. Why? Washington doesn't have any experience of states coming in with other languages but English. Will Puerto Rico be an exception? I doubt it.
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 06-08-2014, 08:14 AM
 
132 posts, read 217,210 times
Reputation: 137
When I started reading the replies I had to jump in right away. Unfortunately many responses paint a dreary picture which is not really the case. I have homes both in San Juan and the western parts of the island being here 12 years.
Yes, San Juan traffic can be horrible particularly on the expressways between 4 and 7 pm. Drivers are no more discourteous or inexperienced than in any other US city.
Outside the cities roads can be dangerous not so much because they are bad but more because of mountainous terrain. All roads are well marked and most well-maintained.
Utilities: Yes, a bit more expensive, but you never need heat, and many places (higher elevations) no a/c. Garbage pick-up is free. I pay much less in utilities than I did in Florida.
No, overall grocery expenses are not higher. Some things like milk, yes. Other things, no. Fresh produce is often imported (we need more local agriculture). It is ridiculous to say one must depend on SAMS, as there are just as many modern supermarkets of many chains as stateside.
Housing is much cheaper to buy or to rent. There are all price ranges, styles, and qualities. There are few places where you can get magnificent sea or mountain views thrown into the price. A/C is available like anywhere where needed.
It is very silly to compare Puerto Rico to any other island in the Caribbean or any part if Spanish America. Puerto Rico is more similar to the US mainland with the added benefit (I think) of a unique Spanish culture without the racism and indifference so common on the mainland.
Things are more beaucratic and slow here, particularly with government services, but there are rewards and benefits. Did you know that you will not be charged ANY real estate tax in your home as a principal residence? All govt services are cheaper and giving. You can even get a free house or building lot if you are in need.
There are challenges as in moving to any new place, but I can tell that many Anglos from the States are very happy here. They are moving to PR in large numbers. Where else can you find such tropical beauty in your own country for a such low cost? Not in Hawaii where everything is very expensive and where you are not welcome by the locals.
Follow your dream. PR is not for everyone, but those of us who love it have found the gem of the Caribbean and one of the finest places under the US flag to live!
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-08-2014, 08:28 AM
 
132 posts, read 217,210 times
Reputation: 137
Trying to assess or explain the political situation in Puerto Ruco is an exercise in futility. Things change constantly, and the evolution of the situation is not easy to explain.
There is really not the negativity toward the US as you would find in Hawaii where I constantly experienced "anti Yankee" demonstrations and sentiment--and that place they made into a state!
In 12 years in PR nobody has ever made me feel unwelcome. Actually quite the contrary. Independence is less a popular issue than in some states.
Do we need a resolution to the problem of not being able to vote for those who rule us? Yes.
Do we need clarification of status either through statehood or commonwealth? Yes.
But remember that PR is just as intimately connected with the US mainland as any state. There are probably more people of PR ancestry living on the mainland as on the island. There are also a lot if us Anglos who are now Puerto Ricans who love this island.
Status is a problem, but not a danger for any new Anglo resident.
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-08-2014, 10:48 AM
 
132 posts, read 217,210 times
Reputation: 137
Sticks and stones can break my bones but words will never harm them.
Unfortunately, that us not exactly true.
People worldwide have names for others they do not consider like them.
In my experience this is usually done by persons of lesser education and position in society.
In my 12 years in Puerto Rico I was called "gringo" only twice. I called both individuals on this (one was Black--a distinct minority in western PR). They understood my position.
"Gringo" like any racial slur IS inheritantly negative and derogatory used most commonly by Mexicans who have not forgotten the 1845 pillage of their country by the US.
"American" also has application problems. Calling the USA the only "America" is absurd, incorrect, and rejected by many other inhabitants of America North and South.
In the past Anglos from the USA were often referred to by Puerto Ricans as "Continentals", an inoffensive term.
In my life and travels I find the USA to be the most prejudiced society. Name calling is common there from race, religion, or area. Ask any northerner who moves to a small town in the south.
PR is probably the only part of USA that is relatively non-discriminatory.
You are generally not looked down upon by most residents most anywhere if you behave as one of the crowd. I have seen some Anglos behave insufferably which comes from upbringing in a country that perceives itself as superior.
Puerto Rico is a very open accepting society, and I have actually experienced many times people telling me that it is an honour to them that I love and live in PR.
Puerto Rico is a proud culture. Of course it does not dip its flag to the federal banner, nor should it. Prior to the Civil War people were first loyal to their state, not the national government.
Many places in states fly their flag proudly equal and not lowered to the US flag. I believe Texas has a legal right to do this much as we do in PR.
People will never learn to accept one another equally--never have any time in history. PR, however, is as good as place as anywhere to foster good human relations without name-calling.
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-08-2014, 01:04 PM
 
Location: Tampa Bay`·.¸¸ ><((((º>.·´¯`·><((((º>
4,600 posts, read 7,188,711 times
Reputation: 13563
Quote:
Originally Posted by sunpup View Post
When I started reading the replies I had to jump in right away. Unfortunately many responses paint a dreary picture which is not really the case. I have homes both in San Juan and the western parts of the island being here 12 years.
Yes, San Juan traffic can be horrible particularly on the expressways between 4 and 7 pm. Drivers are no more discourteous or inexperienced than in any other US city.
Outside the cities roads can be dangerous not so much because they are bad but more because of mountainous terrain. All roads are well marked and most well-maintained.
Utilities: Yes, a bit more expensive, but you never need heat, and many places (higher elevations) no a/c. Garbage pick-up is free. I pay much less in utilities than I did in Florida.
No, overall grocery expenses are not higher. Some things like milk, yes. Other things, no. Fresh produce is often imported (we need more local agriculture). It is ridiculous to say one must depend on SAMS, as there are just as many modern supermarkets of many chains as stateside.
Housing is much cheaper to buy or to rent. There are all price ranges, styles, and qualities. There are few places where you can get magnificent sea or mountain views thrown into the price. A/C is available like anywhere where needed.
It is very silly to compare Puerto Rico to any other island in the Caribbean or any part if Spanish America. Puerto Rico is more similar to the US mainland with the added benefit (I think) of a unique Spanish culture without the racism and indifference so common on the mainland.
Things are more beaucratic and slow here, particularly with government services, but there are rewards and benefits. Did you know that you will not be charged ANY real estate tax in your home as a principal residence? All govt services are cheaper and giving. You can even get a free house or building lot if you are in need.
There are challenges as in moving to any new place, but I can tell that many Anglos from the States are very happy here. They are moving to PR in large numbers. Where else can you find such tropical beauty in your own country for a such low cost? Not in Hawaii where everything is very expensive and where you are not welcome by the locals.
Follow your dream. PR is not for everyone, but those of us who love it have found the gem of the Caribbean and one of the finest places under the US flag to live!
PR is an amazing place....if you care to explore out of the touristy places!!
__________________
My mod posts will always be in red.
The RulesInfractions & DeletionsWho's the moderator? • FAQ • What is a "Personal Attack" • What is "Trolling" • Guidelines for copyrighted material.
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-08-2014, 04:05 PM
 
529 posts, read 987,114 times
Reputation: 492
The problem with most Gringos is that they can't conceive that the US owns colonies. In the US they are called territories, which in large part were territories taken over by the expanding Gringo nation. As ALL the territories became Gringo-lized, and the political establishment became Anglo-Gringo statehood was then granted. In no state was there ever an ethnic population that out numbered the anglo-gringos. If they got close, they were disenfranchised like the GOP is doing these days with folks who don't look or speak English correctly.

Why can't Americans see beyond these simplistic conceptions? Because Americans, and PR pitiyankis, live in a bubble and see only themselves. They've been smothered 24/7 with American exceptionalism from kindergarden, like if Gringos were gods gift to the planet.

Puerto Rico is LATIN AMERICAN NATION, without sovereignty. Although if given a chance to vote most will pick statehood, not for any patriotic reason but to keep the welfare cash flowing.

Few if any Gringo knows that PR has its own literature that is known in Latin America and dates back to the XVIII century. Our great men, which aren't the founding fathers, are the holidays we celebrate which most statehooders want to get rid of. The most that Puerto Ricans know about the founding fathers of 1776 is on a dollar bill and when they encounter Abe Lincoln in Disney's Expo. .
Puerto Rico has the same infrastructure, highways, shopping malls, and a rabidly conservative middle classes as any Latin American country. This Americanized middle class major cultural achievement is going on a cruise to stack up food in the buffets and go to Disney world. Read books? What's that! A Miss Universe Contest is better like it. MMMMMMM sounds like Venezuela?

Puerto Rico is not a paradise. If you've never encountered racism you probably never will, that is if you look white. However the worst kind of prejudice on the island is social class prejudice. Blacks will never get into the Caparra Country Club or The Casino of Puerto Rico when it existed. Strangely darker folks might be allowed in but they are not considered Black on the island, maybe in the U.S.

Our prejudice is different from the US where every one , even those who live in trailer Parks consider themselves middle class. Middle class in Puerto Rico is a status more difficult to attain, and money doesn't pull it all the time. If fact those uppity middle class Ricans don't even accept rich nuyoricans because they are below their station and should know their place.

"El Club Civico de San Juan", a ladies club which parades Easter hats during Easter is as stratified as the Daughters of the American Revolution. I could go on and on and many Ricans here will read this and agree but they would never say it.

Therefore once you get through your head that we are a nation of people with their specific history and will NEVER give in to be English only, then you might want to re-reconsider and see us in another light.

Until then you will remain in the dark, knowing us only superficially.
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-08-2014, 06:45 PM
 
132 posts, read 217,210 times
Reputation: 137
The previous post proves my point that "gringo" is a basically nasty term. It is used like any slur word to degrade another human being you do not like. In this case it is the dislike of the US and any people originating in that country.
An individual person no matter where he originates deserves respect until he proves otherwise.
The sins and misbehaviours of any nation are not caused by residents but the political leaders.
This gentlemen is allowed his thinking but fortunately does not represent the vast majority of Puerto Ricans who are decent kindly human beings.
I may be an Anglo in culture and origin, but now I am living in Puerto Rico because I like it very much.
Puerto Rico is an important part of the USA at the present time. It is very little like other parts of Spanish America which it resembles only in language, not in political structure.
The future will be up to Puerto Rico, not the US. If an arrangement for statehood can be accepted by the majority then it will happen. If not, we will have to find another way. Our Commonwealth status in the meantime will remain. Independence, unfortunately leads nowhere, as the same kind of political rulers will control everything. That is inescapable. I don't want to become a banana republic.
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-09-2014, 07:42 AM
 
529 posts, read 987,114 times
Reputation: 492
Quote:
Originally Posted by sunpup View Post
The previous post proves my point that "gringo" is a basically nasty term. It is used like any slur word to degrade another human being you do not like. In this case it is the dislike of the US and any people originating in that country.
An individual person no matter where he originates deserves respect until he proves otherwise.
The sins and misbehaviours of any nation are not caused by residents but the political leaders.
This gentlemen is allowed his thinking but fortunately does not represent the vast majority of Puerto Ricans who are decent kindly human beings.
I may be an Anglo in culture and origin, but now I am living in Puerto Rico because I like it very much.
Puerto Rico is an important part of the USA at the present time. It is very little like other parts of Spanish America which it resembles only in language, not in political structure.
The future will be up to Puerto Rico, not the US. If an arrangement for statehood can be accepted by the majority then it will happen. If not, we will have to find another way. Our Commonwealth status in the meantime will remain. Independence, unfortunately leads nowhere, as the same kind of political rulers will control everything. That is inescapable. I don't want to become a banana republic.

You still don't get it, and I guess never will. If you check out past posts regular Ricans writing here don't consider Gringo a negative term. To me it's a term that differentiates Anglo Americans from the rest of us. Granted if you don't like the term so be it.

Yes most Puerto Ricans are decent and kindly persons, except on the road. And yes I'm not accusing you for the sins of your political class, which have been many in Latin America. Although you might not believe me half of my friends are Gringos and when we get together we have discussions of all sorts including politics. In fact my wife is Gringa, not Nuyorican, really GRINGA ! LOL


Everyone is welcome to live in Puerto Rico and more so if they marry here and raise their children who will eventually become Ricans. However most Gringos stay a while and leave, never really making PR their permanent home. Mmmmmmmm is it too foreign?

I'm not of the Puerto Ricans who think that our status depends on us. Colonies have never decided their destiny by votes. The most powerful nation on this planet will not accept this colony into the fold because it will have more political power than 25 to 27 states. If we add the possibility of making coalitions with other Hispanic communities in the states a Puerto Rican state is wish full thinking. Powerful nations rule by Real Politiks not by asking people to pick choices that run counter to their national interests.

Commonwealth as is, has to go. It worked in the 50's but it must be transformed. Into what? Good material for discussion.

Finally thinking that Latin Americans live in banana Republics is a stereotype created in the 50' by gringos trying to put down governments that were controlled by the U.S. And it's local lackeys. Your term just proves how low you "unconsciously" think of Latinos.
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-09-2014, 11:48 AM
 
132 posts, read 217,210 times
Reputation: 137
Look, my intention is not to defend colonialism. After all, by moving to Puerto Rico, I am also without a vote for those who rule the nation. This does not really bother me, because any government anywhere by anyone tends to behave the same way no matter the extent of the franchise. The individual relationship to government in my thinking is not to wave its flag (nationalism=prejudice and war) but to accept and tolerate it if it provides protections, services, and individual liberties. As such US "possession" of Puerto Rico is benign, and to replace it with another form of government at the present presents unknown troubles.
I wish these names that people call one another would end. They exist for no other reason save to judge, categorise, and prejudice people toward one another.
I would never call anyone of another race, religion, culture, or nationality any other name than his given name. If you do this to me, you insult me. Use your cute names on yourself, but never on another. You have no right to do this. "Gringo" is a nasty term no matter how you try to defend it. It was created not out of love but out of hate like all the other cute little names we have for people of different colour, etc.
My "banana republic" comment refers only to those nations--not all of them Latin--where government tends to be oligarchic or dictatorial, not a few of which are in America. It is nonsense to call me prejuidiced when the other posts from another scream prejudice.
I have been throughout much of tropical America, and with few exceptions there are serious problems. We have nothing in Puerto Rico that approximates anything like this. This is one benefit we have of the 116 year relationship with the US.
I also cannot understand how anyone thinks Venezuela is anything like PR. I know this nation from one far end to another. The people are some of the unhappiest on the planet. A beautiful rich country like Venezuela has never learned how to distribute the wealth even slightly. Misery and poverty are everywhere, and there is no excuse for it. PR is a wealthy place insofar that none really have to suffer. Venezuela is also very racist and structured.
Love Puerto Rico and love all the people who live here from black to white from Spanish to English speaking from wealthy to poor. Call NO ONE any name other than their own.
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-30-2014, 02:51 PM
 
2 posts, read 2,456 times
Reputation: 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by clip314 View Post
You still don't get it, and I guess never will. If you check out past posts regular Ricans writing here don't consider Gringo a negative term. To me it's a term that differentiates Anglo Americans from the rest of us. Granted if you don't like the term so be it.

Yes most Puerto Ricans are decent and kindly persons, except on the road. And yes I'm not accusing you for the sins of your political class, which have been many in Latin America. Although you might not believe me half of my friends are Gringos and when we get together we have discussions of all sorts including politics. In fact my wife is Gringa, not Nuyorican, really GRINGA ! LOL


Everyone is welcome to live in Puerto Rico and more so if they marry here and raise their children who will eventually become Ricans. However most Gringos stay a while and leave, never really making PR their permanent home. Mmmmmmmm is it too foreign?

I'm not of the Puerto Ricans who think that our status depends on us. Colonies have never decided their destiny by votes. The most powerful nation on this planet will not accept this colony into the fold because it will have more political power than 25 to 27 states. If we add the possibility of making coalitions with other Hispanic communities in the states a Puerto Rican state is wish full thinking. Powerful nations rule by Real Politiks not by asking people to pick choices that run counter to their national interests.

Commonwealth as is, has to go. It worked in the 50's but it must be transformed. Into what? Good material for discussion.

Finally thinking that Latin Americans live in banana Republics is a stereotype created in the 50' by gringos trying to put down governments that were controlled by the U.S. And it's local lackeys. Your term just proves how low you "unconsciously" think of Latinos.
Being an american, I would not be offended by being called "Gringo". I would CHOOSE NOT TO BE OFFENDED. I think SUNPUP has an issue with it because they WANT to have an issue with it. They CHOOSE to be offended by it. There is a reason we (Americans) are called "UGLY AMERICAN" everywhere we go. People like you who think your personal feelings are more important than anybody else. Who think that you are better than anybody else.

Nobody should be able to say ANYTHING that may be offensive.... BOOOOO HOOOOO HOOOOOO

Personally I dont think somone elses view should be forced on me, and quite honestly, I wish SUNPUP would just SHUT UP about it so I can read the forums about Puerto Rico so I can move there in the next few months without wading through every one of their post hijacking threads. The context is where the offense could be.... If they call you "That STUPID GRINGO" then YEAH, be offended, but stop beeing such a PU**Y. You are an adult, act like it, and man / woman up a little.

Its not offensive unless the person saying it is trying to BE OFFENSIVE. If you dont like standing out like a sore thumb, you may want to move back to CALIFORNIA. Where your petty snivelling is normal.

Can you PLEASE just let me read ONE thread that isnt hijacked by YOU BEATING THE DEAD HORSE!
IF YOU HATE PUERTO RICO SO MUCH, MOVE OUT!!! Make room for those of us that want to actually assimilate into Puerto Rican society.

If this is your life, and what makes you feel accomplished, I feel sorry for you.

Sincerly,
Fed up gringo (Yeah, proud of it)
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > U.S. Territories

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2021, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Contact Us - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37 - Top