Who is leaving Puerto Rico. (real estate, 2015, insurance)

[clip314]

The perception going around is that there is a massive brain drain of professionals leaving the island. According to a Hunter University study there is indeed a great migration going on. However it is not composed of 100% professionals. The study found that 64% of those leaving had a high school diploma, if so, some with a maximum of one year of a diploma mill education. The other 36% are a combination of high end professionals like doctors and some lawyers, and lower end teachers who are recruited for bilingual programs teaching immigrants, in of all places , Texas and Arizona. Puerto Rican universities produce so many professionals that sending a few over to the United States helps to off set America's huge school drop out rates and lack of doctors.

The un analyzed part in this hysterical migration story is that crime is going down. Can't say it's much yet, but 2014 has broken the upswing crime pattern the island has had for years. Because a large portion of those migrating are young , under educated men, could it be possible that their Un socialized behaviors are being taken to Florida, New York, Chicago and smaller cities of Connecticut and Pennsylvania?

[unPescador]

Just because the's been a slight downward trend in the YTD number of murders the rate is still incredibly high and I don't believe there's been a decrease in property crimes. We are three months into the year, any assumption 2015 will entail a significant drop in the crime rate is speculation. All the underlying causes of violent and property crimes are still in Puerto Rico, they haven't left and until they do things will remain pretty much the same. If the population decreases as expected over the next four decades the number of crimes will decrease but the ratio per capita will likely remain close to what it is today.... unless the narcotic trafficking stops, but I would expect that topic is for another thread.

[Hellion1999]

Originally Posted by clip314

The perception going around is that there is a massive brain drain of professionals leaving the island. According to a Hunter University study there is indeed a great migration going on. However it is not composed of 100% professionals. The study found that 64% of those leaving had a high school diploma, if so, some with a maximum of one year of a diploma mill education. The other 36% are a combination of high end professionals like doctors and some lawyers, and lower end teachers who are recruited for bilingual programs teaching immigrants, in of all places , Texas and Arizona. Puerto Rican universities produce so many professionals that sending a few over to the United States helps to off set America's huge school drop out rates and lack of doctors.

The un analyzed part in this hysterical migration story is that crime is going down. Can't say it's much yet, but 2014 has broken the upswing crime pattern the island has had for years. Because a large portion of those migrating are young , under educated men, could it be possible that their Un socialized behaviors are being taken to Florida, New York, Chicago and smaller cities of Connecticut and Pennsylvania?

1) I always take with a grain of salt studies from universities. Some are somewhat accurate and others are not.

2) Its call a GLOBAL economy....the days where you can stay in 1 place ALL your life as a professional are OVER! If you are good at your job and your profession is in demand you will get good offers from 50 states and other countries and logic and common sense tells you, you do what is best for you and your family and money and benefits talks...just like FREE AGENCY in PRO Sports.....that's the way it is.


3) Puerto Ricans with HIGH SCHOOL diplomas have better opportunities in the states than in P.R. because there are a lot of jobs in demand that don't require a college degree........in P.R. most jobs require a college degree even when the job skills doesn't require it. You see them in government jobs in Puerto Rico that you ask yourself you need a college degree to do what you are doing which is basically not much.


4) I think you are clueless about doctors in the U.S.....if you bust your butt in medicine school in the U.S., I hardly think most graduate doctors will want to go to a 3rd world country to work for low wages to pay off the student loans because they won't ....they want to work and practice where doctors are paid well and have the best hospitals in the world and that is the U.S.A.


5) you really think Puerto Rico has better universities than the U.S.? and a better public school system?....how many IVY LEAGUE SCHOOLS Puerto Rico have?......being a graduate from a community college in P.R. is not the same thing as a graduate from a top 50 University in the U.S.

[Raiderman]

Originally Posted by Hellion1999

1) I always take with a grain of salt studies from universities. Some are somewhat accurate and others are not.

2) Its call a GLOBAL economy....the days where you can stay in 1 place ALL your life as a professional are OVER! If you are good at your job and your profession is in demand you will get good offers from 50 states and other countries and logic and common sense tells you, you do what is best for you and your family and money and benefits talks...just like FREE AGENCY in PRO Sports.....that's the way it is.


3) Puerto Ricans with HIGH SCHOOL diplomas have better opportunities in the states than in P.R. because there are a lot of jobs in demand that don't require a college degree........in P.R. most jobs require a college degree even when the job skills doesn't require it. You see them in government jobs in Puerto Rico that you ask yourself you need a college degree to do what you are doing which is basically not much.


4) I think you are clueless about doctors in the U.S.....if you bust your butt in medicine school in the U.S., I hardly think most graduate doctors will want to go to a 3rd world country to work for low wages to pay off the student loans because they won't ....they want to work and practice where doctors are paid well and have the best hospitals in the world and that is the U.S.A.


5) you really think Puerto Rico has better universities than the U.S.? and a better public school system?....how many IVY LEAGUE SCHOOLS Puerto Rico have?......being a graduate from a community college in P.R. is not the same thing as a graduate from a top 50 University in the U.S.

The same EXACT number as:

Alabama
Alaska
Arizona
Arkansas
California
Colorado
Delaware
Florida
Georgia
Hawaii
Idaho
Illinois
Indiana
Iowa
Kansas
Kentucky
Louisiana
Maine
Maryland
Michigan
Minnesota
Mississippi
Missouri
Montana
Nebraska
Nevada
New Mexico
North Carolina
North Dakota
Ohio
Oklahoma
Oregon
South Carolina
South Dakota
Tennessee
Texas
Utah
Vermont
Virginia
Washington
West Virginia
Wisconsin
Wyoming

[Hellion1999]

Originally Posted by Raiderman

The same EXACT number as:

Alabama
Alaska
Arizona
Arkansas
California
Colorado
Delaware
Florida
Georgia
Hawaii
Idaho
Illinois
Indiana
Iowa
Kansas
Kentucky
Louisiana
Maine
Maryland
Michigan
Minnesota
Mississippi
Missouri
Montana
Nebraska
Nevada
New Mexico
North Carolina
North Dakota
Ohio
Oklahoma
Oregon
South Carolina
South Dakota
Tennessee
Texas
Utah
Vermont
Virginia
Washington
West Virginia
Wisconsin
Wyoming

wrong answer........the United States has 8 Ivy League Schools which ranks in the TOP 15 BEST in the world and Puerto Rico with all the federal funds it gets has 0, if Puerto Rico becomes independent they will get less funds for their universities.


My post was in respond to Clip that he somehow suggested that there are more college graduates in Puerto Rico and professionals as a ratio than the U.S. and that the U.S. lacks college graduates and Puerto Ricans are filling the void leaving Puerto Rico, which I don't know where he gets his data. Anybody can get a college degree if the government is paying for it, there is a huge difference where you get your degree from in how far you go in the global market as a professional and job offers.

[Raiderman]

Originally Posted by Hellion1999

wrong answer........the United States has 8 Ivy League Schools which ranks in the TOP 15 BEST in the world and Puerto Rico with all the federal funds it gets has 0, if Puerto Rico becomes independent they will get less funds for their universities.


My post was in respond to Clip that he somehow suggested that there are more college graduates in Puerto Rico and professionals as a ratio than the U.S. and that the U.S. lacks college graduates and Puerto Ricans are filling the void leaving Puerto Rico, which I don't know where he gets his data. Anybody can get a college degree if the government is paying for it, there is a huge difference where you get your degree from in how far you go in the global market as a professional and job offers.

Actually, 100% correct answer. There are a total of 8 Ivy League Schools. None of which are located in any of the states I listed.

[Hellion1999]

Originally Posted by Raiderman

Actually, 100% correct answer. There are a total of 8 Ivy League Schools. None of which are located in any of the states I listed.

actually IVY LEAGUE is a term for NORTHERN EAST Universities.....but thank you for letting us know that 43 states don't fall in the Northern East zone.....lol

I'm sure California and other Western States don't have prestigious world top ranked Universities in the same league as the Northern East ones. (wink, wink)


Does Puerto Rico have a world top university in the TOP 100?

[hindsight2020]

Yes, there has been brain drain for decades. That's old news. I was part of that exodus as far back as 1998.

No, not all the seedy elements of Puerto Rican society are emigrating. A lot of uneducated Puerto Ricans have made Orlando/Kissimmee trek on a rubber band basis, with the expected lackluster results and giving Puerto Ricans a bad name in the mainland much in the same way as the multitude of uneducated Cubans made a bad name for themselves in the 80s South Florida. The more you remove yourself from those ghetto centers, the more irrelevant those stereotypes become to Puerto Ricans seeking prosperity in anywhere America. Be that as it may, the crime problem in PR, just like anywhere else, is fundamentally a gainful employment problem. No jobs, no order, no stability. To me that connection is self-evident.

University rankings is immaterial to this issue. There's a surplus of degreed individuals, both in vocations that are in demand and in those that are not. The problem is that in PR, there is low volume of skilled employment outlet for citizens that grew up under the premise that as US Citizens, they should have US Citizen standards of living. PR has proven incapable of providing that end for millions of Puerto Ricans. As such, those who can, do leave.

My parents struggle daily with being older, retired, anchored by price-depressed real estate, and otherwise culturally discouraged from relocating. The increasing taxation, the lack of order and prevalent crime however make their QOL an exercise in watching their back everywhere they go, particularly at night, and they bellyache daily about it. I plead with them to relocate stateside but they are tied to the island, probably until they lose mobility and have to come under my care.

PR is in the finalizing throws towards becoming an actual bahamian tourist trap economy. This is something the youth of PR never bargained for, as they see themselves as first world citizens with access to American standards of living. But as an island economy after all, there is little economic incentive for first world industry to operate out of an island, absent 3rd world labor costs or equally socially-dismissive corporate tax incentives (read seccíon 936 of old days and their present day equivalents, et al). The way I see PR morphing, is in the continued selling off of waterfront properties to foreign investment, the emergence of a semi-indigent tourism industry worker class, with a large swath of poverty and drug economy prevalent in the interior of the island as well as the bárrio sectors of the San Juan and Ponce MSAs. In addition, quality medical services will continue to become more difficult to attain, as there is no incentive for highly-paid medical professionals to live or attempt to prosper amidst such threats to personal security and social blight. All this will of course accelerate the brain drain of the privately-educated class in PR (of which yours truly was a part of). The good news is that as US Citizens, those with access and the temperance/willingness to move CONUS, can do so in ways our Caribbean neighbors cannot as readily.

It truly is sad to witness the worsening conditions that afflict island economies, but as the axiom states: the game is chess, it ain't checkers...

The only way Puerto Rico can attempt to gain some level of economic sufficiency in spite of being an island, is by exploiting the natural resources and urbanizing the island center. But they want to keep it pristine and jungle-like, so the populace rots in poverty and lack of employment. I'm not advocating deforesting the entire thing overnight to make way to parking lots and shopping malls, but you can't be that averse to progress and business incentive because you want to freeze the flamboyan trees and coquí frogs in time for another 500 years. But that's no longer my fight. I got the hell out of there in order to attain progress for me and my kind. I suggest my "compueblanos" do the same for their sake.

[Hellion1999]

good post Hindsight2020............its kind of hard to prosper in Puerto Rico in the private sector when there are more government employees than the state of California draining the working class and private sector to keep that apparatus barely afloat.

Crime affects a lot....it raises insurance and costs for business and the common folks and its bad for investors. Add to that that any decent family will leave.


The college thing I disagree......the way that I see things is the government paying for college for a large % in the island is more of a business for the colleges in the island to fill their financial quotas and not the demands in the global economy or what is best for Puerto Rico......I know that a lot of Puerto Ricans who have a degree from P.R. who move to the states doesn't mean anything or they are working in something else entirely different in what they major in the colleges in Puerto Rico.

The public school system in Puerto Rico is a factor that will determine the outcome and opportunities for millions of P.R. coming out of the island coming to the U.S.


I know a lot of college students are just wasting time and taxpayers funds...........the government should pay for students college if they are up for it and only for the demands of the country, so when they graduate they will have job offers in what the government invested in........Puerto Rico doesn't need more lawyers to end up sucking the county dry when they get to government.

[WIHS2006]

Puerto Rico's public education system needs to be depoliticized, especially at the UPR. I like former Gov. Luis Fortuno's idea of making the state Secretary of Education a 10 year appointment to remove the education system from the 4 year circus. There's also the language issue, fact of the matter is that Puerto Ricans NEED to be completely 100% bilingual. Sorry separatists and colony supporters but that's the truth of the matter. If Puerto Ricans are going to continue moving the mainland in these numbers they need to be very fluent in English or else they will be stuck working minimum wage jobs which perpetrates poverty and helps nobody.

In terms of government I believe Puerto Rico needs to move towards a unicameral legislature with the abolition of at-large seats which tend to attract extremes - both far right and far left. Abolishing the at-large seats would lead to a more moderate and pragmatic Puerto Rican legislature.