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PR is a small island, but it isn't that small. Its big enough to have sprawl and developers took advantage of that and continue to do so. They even destroy the side of mountains to level the land and make way for even more sprawl.
PR did that because they copy everything from the mailand USA. I personally think PR should had stuck to its traditional Spanish urbanism as is evident in Old San Juan. Spain has done a nice job at containing its sprawl and doing them tastefully minus in a few places. The end result is a more orderly and compact sprawl which actually is ideal for an island such as PR. Ah well, too late now!
destroy side of mountains????? its call building NEW homes and communities. Puerto Rico has 4 million people. In 1898 it had less than 600,000. Where do you expect them to live on top of each other?
what's wrong in copying from the U.S.A? Spain is not an island of 130 x 35 miles with 4 million people in it. Spain is a little smaller than Texas.
Spain is 37 times larger than P.R.........Spain has 11 times more people than P.R......see where I'm getting at? they have more land per population than P.R.
Sao Paulo has way more people than all of PR, so it isn't a fair comparison.
With that said, PR does has the worst traffic jams in the Caribbean.
Maybe if PR's government adds new lines to its subway ridership might increase substantially. For now its more of a toy of sorts and a money pit for the cash strapped government. With more lines and ridership they might make this a profitable venture that would produce PR's government much needed extra cash.
1) Puerto Rico's economy is one of the best in the Caribbean for being a U.S. territory with the U.S. DOLLAR compare to Dominican Republic, Haiti and Cuba. Meaning, Puerto Ricans can afford 2 to 4 cars per house so, yes they will have more traffic than Cuba, R.D. or Haiti, LOL.....you know how difficult is for the ordinary people get a car in Dominican Republic, Haiti or Cuba, how expensive it is and all the paperwork you have to fill out and get approved by their governments ? only the top 20% of people and politicians have access to cars in those countries......In Puerto Rico its easy to buy a car or just buy it for less in Florida and ship it to Puerto Rico. My friends and family have done it many times.
2) The problem with the roads and traffic in P.R. is due to the inept government, they can't manage anything right and is not for the lack of revenues from Autos, they get a lot of revenues from the taxpayers to drive their cars but that's another topic. Just like the Public Education system in P.R., is not for the lack of money but its mediocre another thing the Puerto Rican lefty's government can't manage right.
3) Most people in Brazil live under extreme poverty. They can't afford a car and let alone gas, so the government has to build massive public transportation system which is very over-crowded and mediocre just like the pictures I showed you.
I'm sure most people want to deal with this everyday, just to make your day after a hard day's work, smelling people's bad breaths, sweat, getting all kinds of bacteria and ..Mod editIm sure for the women love to have 5 strangers close to her checking her out up and down so close especially in Latin Culture where that is the norm.....lol
I suspect a lot of people posting here have never ridden transit based on the comments. (You know who you are). San juan is, perhaps, similar to pittsburgh not Sao Paulo. No mention here of the hours long traffic jams in Sau paulo which comprise the equally frustrating commute.
Puerto ricans can afford 2 to 4 cars per household? Where does this money come from? It isn't showing in the per capita income figures. The islands addiction to driving is something it cannot afford.
Some observations..the roads are bad, drivers worse, and there are way too many people driving cars that are not fit to be driven off the farm. Yes, working brake lights should be mandatory.
On the transit side the tren urbano was supposed to run to old san juan which made a lot of sense. The government way, way over spent on the line and ran out of money. Supposedly san juan caguas lrt may happen. Frankly they could start with an intercity bus service
Sprawl - the same corrupt and incompetent government that botched the train urbano and put the island in eye popping debt are in charge of planning. No sidewalks, no bike trails, nothing but car mazes.
That being said there are many great town centers from the Spanish days as well as the early American era. Change seems to be on the horizon for the government, we shall see.
Also of note, the island is now down to 3.4 million people
I suspect a lot of people posting here have never ridden transit based on the comments. (You know who you are). San juan is, perhaps, similar to pittsburgh not Sao Paulo. No mention here of the hours long traffic jams in Sau paulo which comprise the equally frustrating commute.
Puerto ricans can afford 2 to 4 cars per household? Where does this money come from? It isn't showing in the per capita income figures. The islands addiction to driving is something it cannot afford.
Some observations..the roads are bad, drivers worse, and there are way too many people driving cars that are not fit to be driven off the farm. Yes, working brake lights should be mandatory.
On the transit side the tren urbano was supposed to run to old san juan which made a lot of sense. The government way, way over spent on the line and ran out of money. Supposedly san juan caguas lrt may happen. Frankly they could start with an intercity bus service
Sprawl - the same corrupt and incompetent government that botched the train urbano and put the island in eye popping debt are in charge of planning. No sidewalks, no bike trails, nothing but car mazes.
That being said there are many great town centers from the Spanish days as well as the early American era. Change seems to be on the horizon for the government, we shall see.
Also of note, the island is now down to 3.4 million people
1) dude you are talking to a Puerto Rican that lived in BAYAMON, Puerto Rico until 1990 and still visits the island once or twice a year. Bayamon is known for "tapones" (traffic) and the public transportation system is not that good...name one agency that is big in Puerto Rico that the government runs well? name 1?.....coqui...coqui....coqui.....
2) where do some Puerto Rican get their money to have 2 to 4 cars in their "MARQUESINA" (Puerto Rican term for house garage) simple....UNDERGROUND ECONOMY! a lot of people work under the table in Puerto Rico hustling in the streets to put food on the table. I was one of them working in whatever I could work from painting houses, detailing cars, mowing laws, cutting trees or whatever it took and getting paid CASH.
3) the Census puts the Puerto Rican population at 3.4 million but they don't count the ILLEGALS, they are not in the system just like in the U.S.....many Dominicans in Rio Piedras and Santurce.
4) I have been to Pittsburgh many times, I'm a big Steelers fan and Pittsburgh looks NOTHING like San Juan or how its run. Pittsburgh its real conservative blue collar.
Last edited by Hellion1999; 12-28-2015 at 08:23 PM..
what's wrong in copying from the U.S.A? Spain is not an island of 130 x 35 miles with 4 million people in it. Spain is a little smaller than Texas.
Spain is 37 times larger than P.R.........Spain has 11 times more people than P.R......see where I'm getting at? they have more land per population than P.R.
Barcelona covers an area of 39.2 square miles and has a population density of 40,877 people per square mile.
San Juan covers a land area of 47.9 square miles and a population density of 8,253 per square mile.
The result?
Despite that Spain is 56 times larger than Puerto Rico, their urbanization style allows for 5 times more people in each square mile.
At 40,877 people per square miles, San Juan could had been home to 1,958,008 people. That's 5 times more people than currently live in the Puerto Rican capital. A lot more people living in a lot less space is more efficient for such a small island.
Typical areas of Barcelona as seen in Google Earth Street View:
The bottom line is that Puerto Rico devotes too much of its land to urban development when it could had concentrated most of its population on a lot less land. Not only would it had been better for the environment, but also socially as public transportation is much more viable in a city such as Barcelona.
4) I have been to Pittsburgh many times, I'm a big Steelers fan and Pittsburgh looks NOTHING like San Juan or how its run. Pittsburgh its real conservative blue collar.
I didn't deny the corruption and incompetence but that translates right down to how the island is being built.
while it's true there is a huge underground economy the island still lives on debt and excessive car use is one of those contributors. People can't afford it and It eats into your income.
can you cite any estimates about the Dominican population? Not denying it.
Lastly, I think you misunderstood my Pittsburgh comment. First, pittsburgh has been run by democrats since the 1930s. It nearly went bankrupt a decade ago after years of failed public projects they couldn't pay back (sound familiar yet?). It's roughly 300k people and forty some odd square miles. It is in fact comparable to san juan in size and scope. Sao paulo is nearly 12 million people. They don't have much of a transit system but they have better ridership because they have a better bus system. Worth noting, pat is notoriously inefficient and pays huge pensions to its drivers and managers. It has turned around in the last ten years as the spigot ran dry but continues to struggle with their pension problem. Still, it's transit usage profile is attainable for san juan. Transit use allows for more dense development which is good for the city's bottom line. Excessive sprawl has resulted in another of prs problems, not producing enough food locally which means they have to import food. The island isn't producing enough high value exports to justify that and this disconnect is driven by the same ultra low rate environment that encourages over development in the us as well as an over reliance on construction to generate jobs.
a train used to run around the island the long way from san juan to ponce. you can still see the tracks in some areas in Rincon. When i was a kid my father and i would look for the old rail stations. i remember we found one with two homeless dudes living in it. might have been in anasco or hormigueros. anyway they were nice guys.
in mayaguez, by the old waterfront you can still see old trolley rails as well.
I didn't deny the corruption and incompetence but that translates right down to how the island is being built.
while it's true there is a huge underground economy the island still lives on debt and excessive car use is one of those contributors. People can't afford it and It eats into your income.
can you cite any estimates about the Dominican population? Not denying it.
Lastly, I think you misunderstood my Pittsburgh comment. First, pittsburgh has been run by democrats since the 1930s. It nearly went bankrupt a decade ago after years of failed public projects they couldn't pay back (sound familiar yet?). It's roughly 300k people and forty some odd square miles. It is in fact comparable to san juan in size and scope. Sao paulo is nearly 12 million people. They don't have much of a transit system but they have better ridership because they have a better bus system. Worth noting, pat is notoriously inefficient and pays huge pensions to its drivers and managers. It has turned around in the last ten years as the spigot ran dry but continues to struggle with their pension problem. Still, it's transit usage profile is attainable for san juan. Transit use allows for more dense development which is good for the city's bottom line. Excessive sprawl has resulted in another of prs problems, not producing enough food locally which means they have to import food. The island isn't producing enough high value exports to justify that and this disconnect is driven by the same ultra low rate environment that encourages over development in the us as well as an over reliance on construction to generate jobs.
1) Pittsburgh is a conservative to moderate blue collar town, it has been run by moderate to conservative Democrats/Republicans but the culture is still blue collar conservative, old school Democrat. Now Philadelphia is a liberal Democrat town like Chicago. If you go from Philadelphia to Pittsburgh its like going to another state.
2) well, the Auto industry creates jobs in P.R. and the government in P.R. takes a nice cut.......look at the revenues and jobs from the auto industry:
* dealerships that includes accountants, receptionists, salesman and other jobs.
* mechanics
* auto parts anywhere from tires, brakes and every part of a car.
* Bodyshops
*gas stations
those are jobs and revenues. Puerto Rico's governments also takes revenues from the Auto industry from gas taxes, sales tax, property taxes, tickets for traffic violations, car insurance and toll booths around the island.....that's a lot of money the Puerto Rican government takes from the Auto industry.
3) Brazil has no choice for their socialist lefty government to build a massive transportation system since the majority in the country live under poverty and can't afford a car or gas. The min. wage in Brazil is under $2. That's why you have a high crime rate in Brazil from killings, muggings, kidnapping and gang violence are very common.
and then you have some here complaining about WAL-MART $9 an hour min. wage for min. skills workers.
4) You can't compare Puerto Rico to Ireland or Spain like AntonioR is doing .....different geographic, different cultures, different natural resources and different culture of governments. You compare P.R. to the different islands in the Caribbean.
compare Puerto Rico to Cuba, Dominican Republic even a Costa Rica.....that is more to the ballpark than a European country.
They should have used some of that 72 billion they borrowed for public trans. Instead of whatever they did do with it.
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