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Of course you don't. You don't live in Puerto Rico. I do.
I go to Puerto Rico 3 times a year and I never heard anybody say they want to be a colony of China or be a colony of Spain again especially a PRO Statehood Puerto Rican.........maybe you live in the Chupa Cabra and UFOs zip code.
For the record, I heard a small group of Puerto Ricans on the web that want to be part of Spain again but they are NOT for statehood or PRO U.S.A , they are independendistas but its a joke.
Look, in order to exploit colonies investors have to invest heavily in infrastructure. Modes of transportation have to be built in order to bring agricultural products to port. In Puerto Rico's case, it was sugar. Or is it that you thought railroads, highways, airports were built to transport poor colonials to visit their families and provide easy and cheap transport to the ghettos of New York?
When the colony or infrastructure is of no more use to the metropolis they let the colony go, like that did in Panama and the British with India. Puerto Rico was kept because it served geo-political interests up to 1983. Statuary citizen ship was given , not to help the colonials on a road to statehood , but to secure property rights at encroaching Germans in the Caribbean in 1917. Congress
later made sure that statehood wasn't their intention by the so call insular cases of the Supreme Court.
Because Puerto Rican's are happy colonials, I would rather call them Naive, gringos gathered some collaborators in 1952 and set up the so called Commomwealth to deceive the UN and make the colonials believe they had solved their status. The rest is history.
1) you are comparing Apples and Oranges like always.....Puerto Rico is NOT Panama. Panama was NEVER a U.S. Territory and their citizens weren't American Citizens.
2) Insular Cases of the Supreme Court were over 1 century ago, a lot has happened in the U.S. and the world since then.....if you want to quote the Supreme Court in 1860, Slavery was legal in the U.S.....what's your point?
3) The U.S. can't let Puerto Rico go for the simple reason that the Supreme Court already ruled that Congress can't take citizenship away involuntarily. Afroyim v. Rusk, (1967)is a major United States Supreme Court case in which the Court ruled that citizens of the United States may not be deprived of their citizenship involuntarily..............that puts your argument to rest.
4) But lets pretend for a minute that the U.S. doesn't want to own the real estate of 130 x 35 miles in a anymore in a strategic zone in the Caribbean to South America because it cost too much money (your argument, yeah like the federal government cares so much about spending) what are they going to do with the 3.5 million U.S. Citizens in the island which they can't strip their citizenship away involuntarily, ship them all to the mainland by force and the legal mess in the court rooms for decades, you think that is cheaper? LOL.
5) Its over man, face the facts!....the moment the U.S. gave U.S. Citizenship to Puerto Rico in 1917 and the masses didn't reject it or boycott it or fought against it and it was passed from generation to generation for over 100 years that is when the U.S. PERMANENTLY owns Puerto Rico and everybody born in it are under the U.S. jurisdiction forever!!!
6) The only 2 choices are Statehood or Territory (status quo) that's it......forget independence, you can never be an independent country when your residents are citizens of another nation under their jurisdiction.
1) you are comparing Apples and Oranges like always.....Puerto Rico is NOT Panama. Panama was NEVER a U.S. Territory and their citizens weren't American Citizens.
2) Insular Cases of the Supreme Court were over 1 century ago, a lot has happened in the U.S. and the world since then.....if you want to quote the Supreme Court in 1860, Slavery was legal in the U.S.....what's your point?
3) The U.S. can't let Puerto Rico go for the simple reason that the Supreme Court already ruled that Congress can't take citizenship away involuntarily. Afroyim v. Rusk, (1967)is a major United States Supreme Court case in which the Court ruled that citizens of the United States may not be deprived of their citizenship involuntarily..............that puts your argument to rest.
4) But lets pretend for a minute that the U.S. doesn't want to own the real estate of 130 x 35 miles in a anymore in a strategic zone in the Caribbean to South America because it cost too much money (your argument, yeah like the federal government cares so much about spending) what are they going to do with the 3.5 million U.S. Citizens in the island which they can't strip their citizenship away involuntarily, ship them all to the mainland by force and the legal mess in the court rooms for decades, you think that is cheaper? LOL.
5) Its over man, face the facts!....the moment the U.S. gave U.S. Citizenship to Puerto Rico in 1917 and the masses didn't reject it or boycott it or fought against it and it was passed from generation to generation for over 100 years that is when the U.S. PERMANENTLY owns Puerto Rico and everybody born in it are under the U.S. jurisdiction forever!!!
6) The only 2 choices are Statehood or Territory (status quo) that's it......forget independence, you can never be an independent country when your residents are citizens of another nation under their jurisdiction.
Deputy US Attorney General Dana Boente posted on his official Twitter page on April 17th 2017 that "Puerto Rico is an integral part of the US. Nothing has or will change about our view on this."
The Trump Administration effectively views Puerto Rico as an incorporated territory. Case closed.
I have been hearing the same argument for decades, the one Clip always makes like a broken record . That Congress wants to get rid of Puerto Rico and stripped 3.5 million U.S. Citizens of their citizenship involuntarily and they have no due process and no rights, that congress can do whatever they like.....some even say they could give away Puerto Rico as a gift to another country or sell Puerto Rico to China......all baseless and clueless arguments.
Lets pretend for 1 minute that you find a majority in the house to pass such a thing and a majority in the Senate who are the mature people in Congress to go along with that and a President that will NOT veto the bill which is political suicide in the U.S. for both parties , then you have to deal with the courts and ultimately the Supreme Court who can shoot down easily any such act because they already ruled in 1967 in Afroyim v. Rusk, that citizens of the United States can not be deprived of their citizenship involuntarily by Congress.
so that shoots down any argument that the U.S. wants to get rid of Puerto Rico and all of this silliness people make up.
Like I said, Puerto Rico is stuck with the United States for good since 1917.........Puerto Ricans in 1917 should have reject it and boycott in masses the American Citizenship and demand independence in that small window they had, they didn't, they accepted it for over 1 century and all the benefits and federal funds that came with that and it was passed from generation to generation and there is no way to put that cat back in the bag without creating a big political and legal mess in the courts.
2 reality choices: Statehood or to continue to be a U.S. territory (status quo)......Independence is a big legal and political mess that both sides don't want.
Don't be so dramatic Hellion. The US doesnt have to strip the citizenship of those who already have it. The reality is, the US doesnt really care for two million people living in the Island. The US is more concerned about making PRicans to willingly give the pieces of property in the name of DRNA, ELA. The US will not force PRicans to give up their terrains in payment and PRicans will do it eventually. The Island can be easily emptied in a plan of less than 25 years. Moving the working force and youth to the US which is probably about a Million, the rest are mostly retired and they'll be dead in a matter of 25 to 35 years, thus finally leaving the Island free and totally clean to finally make the best of it. It will happen eventually, the US doesn't even need to move a finger at this point, just let things unfold. It's a matter of vision and the US is pretty good at having the vision for long term plans.
Just as I feared but predicted more than 18 months ago. PROMESA is hitting my state-pensioner parents really hard. So the fiscal board wants 10% cut for all pensioners across the board. The governor comes back and says that it hits the teachers too hard so we're gonna means test internally instead. Board says I don't care how you do it frankly, but you have until September 2017 to show me 145MM in immediate savings, otherwise we're enacting guillotine clause and going right back to our plan of 10% across the board effective December 2017.
So the governor goes and enacts a whopping 17% cut for general fund retirees, gives a pass to PREPA and UPR retirees under the auspices of it being outside the general fund, and gives a stay to those earning less than 2k/mo within the general fund. Unintended consequences city: my parents are general funded retirees. That's 2x 17%, so their household income effective July 2017 goes down 34% pre-tax. Game over. This is what anti-middle class warfare looks like.
So then PROMESA goes into search-and-destroy mode with the property tax assessments, which legitimately suffers from under-collection in the interior of the island, in order to adjust for decades of under-assessment. Bear in mind, in the 3 most expensive districts, (San Juan, Guaynabo, and Aguadilla) the rate is (hope you're sitting down for this) 10+%. Nobody said boo because the assessments were made in 1958 construction dollars and most people have been grandfathered by inheriting property from parents so are largely homestead exempt. That's now gone. The non-homestead exempt are looking at doubling of property taxes overnight based on government appraisals based construction-replacement value in 2017 dollars, and not on the comparable market value of 2017, which of course is in the toilet. Double whammy for my parents, who own rental property in two of the three aforementioned districts. By comparison, Texas has 3% of property value, and people in CONUS consider that rate blasphemous high.
So it's bunker time for my family. The last bastion of middle class retirees is effectively being priced out. I've already communicated with them that we will circle the wagons as a family and I'll support them in the 5 year exit strategy. This will most likely and immediately consist of liquidation of their real estate overhead, in order to regain back some of the purchasing power lost to the egregious 34% pension loss, via savings in mortgage payments and property tax payments. They have one paid off home in Aguadilla, where they can hole up if things get real bad on the cashflow front. Of course at that point they're at the mercy of travel to San Juan for specialty medical care. Once that's no longer viable, it's Saigon time folks. Sell it all and get the hell out of dodge. They'll have a landing pad here next to me in Texas. We're gonna be alright, but it's absolutely terrible what has transpired in the island.
I share this stressful personal anecdote to shine a light into the reality of the street in the island, which gets lost in these academic discussions about political status. It's a real shame what happened to my formative home, but we're Americans and we will overcome as a family. Home is where the heart is. The island is incidental to our Spirit.
About the only silver lining is that based on my father and I running the over/under, we have little confidence the govt will hit the target figures in September, and the fiscal board will reject the plan and guillotine clause back to the original 10% across the board cuts, which would actually give my a 14% reprieve. Talk about ironic.
Taquito is right though, the de-population of the island in order to make way for the wholesale selloff of island coastal property will be realized within one generation. My parents don't care, they shouldn't, their present charter in life is to live out their 70s and 80s as close to their grandchild as possible. The island and the status can go to hell at this point. My boomer parents will be dead in 25 years and at that point they'll be no 1st world economy in PR, just condos and poor illiterate "no me quito" Ricans folding towels and dooming their progeny to a legacy of anglo-centric, racially-condescending, "insular cases"-perpetuating institutional poverty. Caveat Emptor folks. We got our statehood. Game is chess it ain't checkers.
Lastly, if you think this is where the problem stops, you're mistaken. This isn't a Puerto Rico problem anymore. This is a state of Florida problem. I joke with my father often that Florida would be better off going to Congress and the department of the interior, and make a bid for the purchase of the territory to be incorporated under the State of Florida. It might actually save them money to be frank. Because as of right now, it's 2mm people they just haven't acknowledged yet. These aren't Cubans or El Salvadorians, these are folks that with one 99 dollar ticket on Spirit or JetBlue, they become Florida residents right ricky tick. Ruh roh. Might as well move this thread to the Florida sub-forum, cuz that's where this discussion is going.
Don't be so dramatic Hellion. The US doesnt have to strip the citizenship of those who already have it. The reality is, the US doesnt really care for two million people living in the Island. The US is more concerned about making PRicans to willingly give the pieces of property in the name of DRNA, ELA. The US will not force PRicans to give up their terrains in payment and PRicans will do it eventually. The Island can be easily emptied in a plan of less than 25 years. Moving the working force and youth to the US which is probably about a Million, the rest are mostly retired and they'll be dead in a matter of 25 to 35 years, thus finally leaving the Island free and totally clean to finally make the best of it. It will happen eventually, the US doesn't even need to move a finger at this point, just let things unfold. It's a matter of vision and the US is pretty good at having the vision for long term plans.
LMAO!!!!.....if your prediction didn't happen during the great depression and when Puerto Rico was under real poverty way before you were even born then it will NEVER happen but its comical reading you.
LMAO!!!!.....if your prediction didn't happen during the great depression and when Puerto Rico was under real poverty way before you were even born then it will NEVER happen but its comical reading you.
Taquito is right though, the de-population of the island in order to make way for the wholesale selloff of island coastal property will be realized within one generation. My parents don't care, they shouldn't, their present charter in life is to live out their 70s and 80s as close to their grandchild as possible. The island and the status can go to hell at this point. My boomer parents will be dead in 25 years and at that point they'll be no 1st world economy in PR, just condos and poor illiterate "no me quito" Ricans folding towels and dooming their progeny to a legacy of anglo-centric, racially-condescending, "insular cases"-perpetuating institutional poverty. Caveat Emptor folks. We got our statehood. Game is chess it ain't checkers.
The biggest Challenge for the US right now is to make sure it is Puerto Ricans the ones willingly to give their Natural Pieces of Property cause the US knows otherwise it could raise situations in the future. But at this point the US only needs to keep pushing until PRicans will eventually give up out of desperation. It's really a win-win situation for the US and they finally get rid of the Status issue, plus they get the Best pieces of Property in the US Territory to exploit and enjoy without having to endure annoying PRicans all over the place. In true Retirement Paradise.
The biggest Challenge for the US right now is to make sure it is Puerto Ricans the ones willingly to give their Natural Pieces of Property cause the US knows otherwise it could raise situations in the future. But at this point the US only needs to keep pushing until PRicans will eventually give up out of desperation. It's really a win-win situation for the US and they finally get rid of the Status issue, plus they get the Best pieces of Property in the US Territory to exploit and enjoy without having to endure annoying PRicans all over the place. In true Retirement Paradise.
There are already a significant number of retirees/near retirees that own property in PR. My parents are among them. We are already there, and more of us are coming. We don't need to chase away millions of Puerto Ricans to do so.
Have you ever been to Rincon? Or anywhere in the Puerta del Sol area? TONS of Mainlanders.
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