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Old 02-27-2018, 04:57 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tritone View Post
What's unfounded about that opinion? Congress has never even considered statehood for Puerto Rico, no matter how many times they vote for it in plebiscites.

because it's a lot more complicated than passing a bill in congress.....you know that for over 50 years Congress never considered the Territory of Utah for statehood after they became an incorporated territory?.....you have to take Utah history for the reasons. The Mormons were the most hated religious group at the time and the Federal government was at war with them. That's another topic.

The political culture system in P.R. is too dysfunctional and too divided and Congress takes those reasons to not do anything just keep throwing money at the status quo in P.R....congress does that a lot with other issues in the country and the world.


Puerto Rico is a lot closer to statehood then many people think. Most of the federal laws and aid already applies in the territory, all the main federal agencies from the FBI, DEA, Federal courts, VA, Social Security office are already in the island operating for decades making P.R. very close to an incorporated territory. It needs that push to be officially incorporated. Puerto Ricans and their children and grandchildren are U.S. Citizens for life it doesn't matter where they were born in the world....remember that little lesson I gave you on the Jus sanguinis in the 14th amendment (Latin: right of blood)


So calm down.....statehood is coming...it might take 40 to 50 years with the dysfunctional political culture they have but it's a lot closer than Independence by a lot for so many reasons.

Meanwhile, tell us where you live so I can send a few thousand Puerto Ricans in your town so you can eat some bacalaitos and alcapurrias and chill .
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Old 02-27-2018, 07:35 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hellion1999 View Post

Meanwhile, tell us where you live so I can send a few thousand Puerto Ricans in your town so you can eat some bacalaitos and alcapurrias and chill .
plus add some Empanadilla, Pernil, tostones, arroz con gandules.. maybe some cold Medallia to wash it all down,..
maybe get him to sit under tree to play some Dominoes, drink a shot or two of some Pitorro?

No turning back after that...I am speaking from experience.
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Old 02-28-2018, 11:29 AM
 
Location: Northeast states
11,940 posts, read 9,896,720 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by unPescador View Post
Well I guess that settles it... all the unfounded opinions are in.

Next topic?
It just Congress been ignoring Puerto Rico for decades I can’t see it become state anytime soon. They voted for statehood 5 times and most recently last year it was send to Congress as decoration last summer but it was ignored.
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Old 02-28-2018, 12:32 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BPt111 View Post
It just Congress been ignoring Puerto Rico for decades I can’t see it become state anytime soon. They voted for statehood 5 times and most recently last year it was send to Congress as decoration last summer but it was ignored.


because it never got the majority of the electorate if you add all the votes............the last referendum only 23% of the electorate voted because the referendum was boycotted by the majority of the Puerto Rican electorate. 77% of the electorate stayed home. Puerto Rico can do all the local referendums it wants. Politicians in P.R. love that, they get millions of dollars of federal funds to run those referendums but if they don't have a solid majority on any of the options, Congress will keep the status quo.


You can't blame Congress why the political culture in P.R. is dysfunctional. Like I said, this is a lot more complicated and a longer process than just doing a fast a$$ knee-jerk referendum that 77% of the electorate boycotted the process (for whatever reason right or wrong) and try to push statehood bill with only 23% of the electorate voting. (that's not even 1/4 of the electorate).

and I'm a statehood person but when more than 3/4 of the electorate boycotted the last statehood referendum for whatever reason, it tells me the majority either don't care or don't want statehood for whatever ignorant or valid reason the political class in P.R. brainwashed in their brains and they are afraid of change. Like I said, Puerto Ricans have a complacent culture. They will complain and protest but when it comes down to pull that lever for actually change most get cold feet and settle for the status quo.

I'm not a psychiatrist. I can't give you a better answer why people act the way they do and are afraid of changes. That's my observation in living and being raised in Puerto Rico why many in P.R. settled in keeping the status quo and reject and are afraid of Statehood.



Puerto Rico should keep doing referendums every 10 years (1 every decade with the census) .......and when the numbers are right and solid then go to Congress. You can't go to Congress with less than 1/4 of the electorate wanting statehood. Congress has better things to do than to waste time and federal funds on this.

Last edited by Hellion1999; 02-28-2018 at 12:48 PM..
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Old 03-01-2018, 08:37 PM
 
Location: Chambersburg, PA
199 posts, read 101,170 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tritone View Post
Americans simply don't want Puerto Rico to become a state and have to absord all of PRs problems. It has never even been considered even though they have voted for statehood multiple times.

This is something PRs need to realize. You can't just vote to be part of someone else's family without their consent. Statehood is not going to happen.

Give that **** up already, and become an independent nation.
Puerto Rico is officially US territory. Most of the other states were territories owned by the US at one point and not officially states.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hellion1999 View Post
because it never got the majority of the electorate if you add all the votes............the last referendum only 23% of the electorate voted because the referendum was boycotted by the majority of the Puerto Rican electorate. 77% of the electorate stayed home. Puerto Rico can do all the local referendums it wants. Politicians in P.R. love that, they get millions of dollars of federal funds to run those referendums but if they don't have a solid majority on any of the options, Congress will keep the status quo.


You can't blame Congress why the political culture in P.R. is dysfunctional. Like I said, this is a lot more complicated and a longer process than just doing a fast a$$ knee-jerk referendum that 77% of the electorate boycotted the process (for whatever reason right or wrong) and try to push statehood bill with only 23% of the electorate voting. (that's not even 1/4 of the electorate).

and I'm a statehood person but when more than 3/4 of the electorate boycotted the last statehood referendum for whatever reason, it tells me the majority either don't care or don't want statehood for whatever ignorant or valid reason the political class in P.R. brainwashed in their brains and they are afraid of change. Like I said, Puerto Ricans have a complacent culture. They will complain and protest but when it comes down to pull that lever for actually change most get cold feet and settle for the status quo.

I'm not a psychiatrist. I can't give you a better answer why people act the way they do and are afraid of changes. That's my observation in living and being raised in Puerto Rico why many in P.R. settled in keeping the status quo and reject and are afraid of Statehood.



Puerto Rico should keep doing referendums every 10 years (1 every decade with the census) .......and when the numbers are right and solid then go to Congress. You can't go to Congress with less than 1/4 of the electorate wanting statehood. Congress has better things to do than to waste time and federal funds on this.
I think congress just needs to force them to choose between becoming a state and becoming independent already.

Last edited by jate88; 03-01-2018 at 08:51 PM..
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Old 03-01-2018, 11:03 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jate88 View Post
I think congress just needs to force them to choose between becoming a state and becoming independent already.

How do you force an electorate to pick a political status in a democratic referendum? isn't that defeating the whole democratic process?...if you want to force them then skip the whole democratic process then have Congress do a coin toss: Heads= Statehood Tails= Independence and force it down their throats.


if the referendum is Statehood YES or NO, the electorate in Puerto Rico has every right to say NO just like a referendum of Independence YES or NO. Congress has every right to accept or reject the results on statehood or independence.


There are no correct or wrong answers. That's why it's a democratic referendum. As long that is constitutional and no fraud or intimidation, the electorate can vote however they like.


Congress can't "force" the electorate in Puerto Rico to vote 1 way and nobody can't force Congress to accept or reject a petition for statehood or independence.


look at the last referendum last year......only 23% of the electorate voted and 77% boycotted the referendum by not voting. I don't agree with their choice but they have every right to boycott the process. They could have written in the ballot NONE OF THE ABOVE which is another kind of protest, which they have done it in the past.

What is congress going to do, punish them? how?
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Old 03-02-2018, 11:02 AM
 
Location: Chambersburg, PA
199 posts, read 101,170 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hellion1999 View Post
How do you force an electorate to pick a political status in a democratic referendum? isn't that defeating the whole democratic process?...if you want to force them then skip the whole democratic process then have Congress do a coin toss: Heads= Statehood Tails= Independence and force it down their throats.


if the referendum is Statehood YES or NO, the electorate in Puerto Rico has every right to say NO just like a referendum of Independence YES or NO. Congress has every right to accept or reject the results on statehood or independence.


There are no correct or wrong answers. That's why it's a democratic referendum. As long that is constitutional and no fraud or intimidation, the electorate can vote however they like.


Congress can't "force" the electorate in Puerto Rico to vote 1 way and nobody can't force Congress to accept or reject a petition for statehood or independence.


look at the last referendum last year......only 23% of the electorate voted and 77% boycotted the referendum by not voting. I don't agree with their choice but they have every right to boycott the process. They could have written in the ballot NONE OF THE ABOVE which is another kind of protest, which they have done it in the past.

What is congress going to do, punish them? how?
It's not that difficult. Just tell everybody they have to start becoming a state or independent at a certain date and when that date comes along if they refuse to cooperate kick them out anyways.
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Old 03-02-2018, 01:41 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jate88 View Post
It's not that difficult. Just tell everybody they have to start becoming a state or independent at a certain date and when that date comes along if they refuse to cooperate kick them out anyways.


Kick them out to where? you know they are U.S. Citizens. You can't take citizenship away because they didn't vote in a referendum or voted NO in any referendum.


Let me say it again, the U.S. Supreme Court ruled in Afroyim v. Rusk, (1967), that citizens of the United States may not be deprived of their citizenship involuntarily.


so not only is difficult, it's IMPOSSIBLE......not only that, you also have Jus sanguinis in the 14th amendment (Latin: right of blood) is a principle of nationality law by which citizenship is not determined by place of birth but by having one or both parents who are citizens of the state.

That means it doesn't matter if Puerto Rico is a state, territory or a Republic. If you are a U.S. CITIZEN your children and their children will always be U.S. Citizens by blood and there is NOTHING Congress can do about it unless they want to violate the 14th and 5th amendment.


The only way you may lose your U.S. citizenship individually is if you personally renounce it for another country ( file a formal oath of renunciation) or Acts of treason like trying or conspiring to do things like overthrow, bear arms against, or make war on the United States and even that is very rare and still you get DUE PROCESS in the courts which the 5th amendment demands. The U.S. government rather kill you or put you in a military prison if you are an enemy combatant rather then going to civilian court to take your U.S. Citizenship and kick you out of the country but that's another topic.


The treason part the U.S. Government hardly ever uses that to take away citizenship. Look at all the Puerto Rican Nationalists in the past 75 years who declared War against the U.S. from Albizu, Oscar Lopez, Lolita Lebron and the list is long. None of them got their citizenship stripped. The same from thousands of Americans in the states from the U.S. CIVIL WAR to the present, none got their citizen stripped for declaring war against the U.S.

So I'm saying it's IMPOSSIBLE unless you do it voluntarily.
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Old 03-02-2018, 02:08 PM
 
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There are 3 ways you can become a U.S. Citizen.

1) by birth in the United States (jus soli, "right of the soil")

2) by birth outside the United States to an American parent (jus sanguinis, "right of the blood")

3) by immigration to the U.S.A followed by naturalization.


forget #3, that doesn't apply to Puerto Rico.........#1 and #2 applies......now let's say Puerto Rico is an independent country (never going to happen) then #1 doesn't apply but #2 ALWAYS will be there if you already have it.

Even if the U.S. Congress declares they are leaving Puerto Rico and handing it over to the Independentistas like the U.S. gave South Vietnam to the Communists in 1975 and left and close every federal building and agency including the Post Office in the island. You still have millions of U.S. Citizens protected under the 14th amendment in the island which they can pass their U.S. Citizenship to their children by blood.


See why Congress can't force things so easily like you put it?
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Old 03-02-2018, 07:32 PM
 
2,482 posts, read 1,720,070 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jate88 View Post
It's not that difficult. Just tell everybody they have to start becoming a state or independent at a certain date and when that date comes along if they refuse to cooperate kick them out anyways.
Since the 'solution' you are promulgating is so simple, can we send THEM to your front yard in Chambersburg, Pa. sic 'anyways'?
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