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Old 06-26-2018, 12:17 PM
 
518 posts, read 950,330 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WIHS2006 View Post
Like all independenistas your about 50 years behind the times.

Americans More Receptive to Puerto Rico as a State Than D.C. - Rasmussen Reports®

The American people seem to disagree with you. I understand this is painful for you to hear but Hurricane Maria changed the fortunes of the statehood movement. Views regarding the status issue among mainland Americans have changed dramatically in the past few years.

I should also note that Rasmussen tends to oversample Republicans ... the people most likely to oppose statehood and even then they could only get 1/3 of respondents to oppose.

I don’t care a hoot what Americans think. They are easily duped by the media, and they have short memories.

The news cycle is almost over and in a year ask anyone about Maria and Puerto Rican’s.

What doesn’t change are AMERICAN INTERESTS towards Puerto Rico.

They’ve got all they want. They can’t squeeze anything else out. However to make us a state is another matter and give us POLITICAL POWER.

If I were you I would be worried at the trend that is enveloping this planet.

The invasion of the poor non whites wanting some of the action. In this we can include Puerto Rico. These are the worst of times for asking for statehood.

There will be negotiations and statehood will not be included. If you want statehood stay where you are.
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Old 06-26-2018, 12:42 PM
 
518 posts, read 950,330 times
Reputation: 485
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hellion1999 View Post
Are blacks not considered full citizens? LOL.......is that you Al Sharpton? ......for college and government jobs is better to be black than white today. Asians have it worst when it comes to that but I don't hear them play the violin and play the victim card and they do better financially and on the education level than any other group including "whites" (whatever that means) . Is all about cultures but that's another topic.


Puerto Rico has NEVER had a strong statehood movement, it has never been a majority. Hawaii always had a strong statehood movement since they kicked out the Queen from power. To expect that statehood will fall out of the sky is being naive. The island has always been divided
politically and when Puerto Rico had the opportunity in the 40's and 50's after WW 2 and during the Cold War to push for statehood, the political forces and the elites and corporations in the island pushed for the Commonwealth they have now which is hard to get rid of. Go thank Luis Munoz Marin and Jesus T Pinero and the rest of the "geniuses" for that. Actions has consequences and Puerto Rico is living it now for the actions in the 40's and 50's.

Any change to Puerto Rico a democratic referendum has to take place to validate any change. That's how the U.S. works and Congress negotiates and moves. Since Puerto Rico is politically divided then the status quo wins. That's good for the elites and corporations in the island. Believe it or not, they control the political climate and media and public opinion in the island. Puerto Rico will NEVER be a state if those forces on the island want to keep and fight for the status quo.

You are an independentista and you live in this fanstasy and false hope that the U.S. will get tired of Puerto Rico and force independence on 3.4 million U.S. Citizens and strip their citizenship. You talk this way because you know damn well your side can't win a democratic election by a majority so your side plays down any democratic referendum and pushes a false hope.

Your side can't win 1 local election in any of the 78 municipios. Trump has a better chance to win public office in Puerto Rico than any independentista. Carmen Yulin has to pretend she is a PPD to be in power in San Juan (even though she doesn't believe in the commonwealth or statehood status) because anybody knows she could never win an election in the independence party......that's what happens when you put "INDEPENDENCE" next to the party logo. Puerto Ricans will reject anything with the word independence but you pretend Congress will just hand your side independence and give up the island just like that after 100 OK, years investing and controlling the island and making all Puerto Ricans born in the island U.S. Citizens? LOL

OK, Hellion, a.k.a Another Rican to some here, LOL.

You said , “ Are not blacks considered citizens?” I would also say “Are not Puerto Ricans considered citizens?” And so what!

What you seem not to understand is that it all depends on POWER and black votes don’t seen to translate into power.

Although Blacks are citizens their power is diluted , gerrymandered or captured within the Democratic Party, the Party that keeps them under control with welfare.

BUT. As a State Puerto Rico will require TWO senators and five Reps, all in one shot. That is more political power than Blacks have ever had in one shot. Not even if they get WASHINGTON DC to become a state will it equal Puerto Rican Power.

Now, let’s get real. Every time gringos see the Puerto Rican Day parade means that they will be giving these folks, a boost in power and some of that power comes from whites. TRUMPIANS WILL EXPLODE. LOL

The Puerto Rican delegation PLUS, delegations from Orlando, Philadelphia , Hartford , New Jersey , etc etc. Will create a HUGE ETHNIC BLOCK IN CONGRESS. If we add a coalition with Mexicans, and Blacks, congress will swing, LOL . ITS NOT THE UNITED STATES THAT WAS ENVISIONED IN 1776.

I think it’ll be great, but I’m also realistic.

At a time when Americans are worried about their identity and race, do you really think this scenario is real?

Common Another, think again. LOL
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Old 06-26-2018, 12:43 PM
 
Location: On a Long Island in NY
7,801 posts, read 9,105,921 times
Reputation: 7328
Quote:
Originally Posted by clip314 View Post
I don’t care a hoot what Americans think. They are easily duped by the media, and they have short memories.

The news cycle is almost over and in a year ask anyone about Maria and Puerto Rican’s.

What doesn’t change are AMERICAN INTERESTS towards Puerto Rico.

They’ve got all they want. They can’t squeeze anything else out. However to make us a state is another matter and give us POLITICAL POWER.

If I were you I would be worried at the trend that is enveloping this planet.

The invasion of the poor non whites wanting some of the action. In this we can include Puerto Rico. These are the worst of times for asking for statehood.

There will be negotiations and statehood will not be included. If you want statehood stay where you are.
Yeah, I don't think you understand how the system works. Your just repeating the same old babble that Ruben Berrios spouts about how the US will get "tired" of Puerto Rico and walk away. Here's the thing you guys keep forgetting, in all those African colonies where the British, French, Belgians, etc indeed just walked away it was because the independence movements had majority (if not super-majority) support. In Puerto Rico the independence movement can't even break 10% (and that's being generous and including the hardcore soberanistas).

Secondly, the US has never benefited economically from Puerto Rico. It's always been a net loss for us. We're there because Puerto Ricans are Americans and want to remain Americans. Until that changes we're not going anywhere. You and ol Ruben, Carmen Yulin, Lugaro, and Maria de Lourdes Santiago can pout, pounds sand, do whatever you want but it's not going to change that reality. Deal with it.
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Old 06-26-2018, 12:49 PM
 
16,160 posts, read 6,758,688 times
Reputation: 19538
Quote:
Originally Posted by WIHS2006 View Post
Like all independenistas your about 50 years behind the times.

Americans More Receptive to Puerto Rico as a State Than D.C. - Rasmussen Reports®

Is this the same Rasmussen that called it Clinton 322 - Trump 216 on the day before the Election 2016?


My feeling from street talk - and I have perhaps more liberal friends than conservative ones - is that the hurricane decreased American's desire to have PR as a state. Most people thought of PR as a self-sufficient tropical territory and didn't realize just how dilapidated their infrastructure was and how impoverished their people were. Everyone feels sorry for them but few want to own their mess. It's like the rich uncle and his destitute ne'er do well nephew. He may feel compassion and try to help him out but he doesn't want to be his legal guardian.
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Old 06-26-2018, 01:42 PM
 
Location: On a Long Island in NY
7,801 posts, read 9,105,921 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oceangaia View Post
Is this the same Rasmussen that called it Clinton 322 - Trump 216 on the day before the Election 2016?


My feeling from street talk - and I have perhaps more liberal friends than conservative ones - is that the hurricane decreased American's desire to have PR as a state. Most people thought of PR as a self-sufficient tropical territory and didn't realize just how dilapidated their infrastructure was and how impoverished their people were. Everyone feels sorry for them but few want to own their mess. It's like the rich uncle and his destitute ne'er do well nephew. He may feel compassion and try to help him out but he doesn't want to be his legal guardian.
So how do you explain the explosion in support for statehood over the past 3-4 years?

Fox News Poll: Support for Puerto Rican statehood increases in wake of Maria | Fox News
Here's another one.

Polls don't measure a few people in one city that Oceangaia happens to know. The measure thousands of people in many different cities. A few people in Texas might have been turned off but there has been an undeniable increase in support for Puerto Rico statehood on the part of mainland Americans. Poll after poll display this. Do you need more? I have some more I can post if you'd like ... including some from the 1990s when opposition to statehood and support for independence was MUCH higher than in recent polls.

As for the election polling, they measure how someone would vote ... not whether or not they are voting.
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Old 06-26-2018, 02:36 PM
 
16,160 posts, read 6,758,688 times
Reputation: 19538
Maybe sympathy. Get back to me in a year from now.
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Old 06-26-2018, 02:50 PM
 
Location: On a Long Island in NY
7,801 posts, read 9,105,921 times
Reputation: 7328
Quote:
Originally Posted by oceangaia View Post
Maybe sympathy. Get back to me in a year from now.
Sympathy doesn't explain a 20 year trend.
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Old 06-27-2018, 03:03 PM
 
11,048 posts, read 4,357,220 times
Reputation: 5235
Quote:
Originally Posted by clip314 View Post

What you seem not to understand is that it all depends on POWER and black votes don’t seen to translate into power.

Although Blacks are citizens their power is diluted , gerrymandered or captured within the Democratic Party, the Party that keeps them under control with welfare.

BUT. As a State Puerto Rico will require TWO senators and five Reps, all in one shot. That is more political power than Blacks have ever had in one shot. Not even if they get WASHINGTON DC to become a state will it equal Puerto Rican Power.

Now, let’s get real. Every time gringos see the Puerto Rican Day parade means that they will be giving these folks, a boost in power and some of that power comes from whites. TRUMPIANS WILL EXPLODE. LOL

The Puerto Rican delegation PLUS, delegations from Orlando, Philadelphia , Hartford , New Jersey , etc etc. Will create a HUGE ETHNIC BLOCK IN CONGRESS. If we add a coalition with Mexicans, and Blacks, congress will swing, LOL . ITS NOT THE UNITED STATES THAT WAS ENVISIONED IN 1776.

I think it’ll be great, but I’m also realistic.

At a time when Americans are worried about their identity and race, do you really think this scenario is real?

Common Another, think again. LOL

Are blacks 13% of the population? what more powers and representation you want? tell me any other country in the world that blacks or any groups are the minority and they are well represented ( excessive) like in the United States and have high positions in federal, state, and local governments? You can't......blacks have it better in the U.S. than in Africa where they are the majority. Go check out what's going in South Africa. I don't see any blacks in the U.S. getting on boats to return to Africa, do you?


All the states get 2 Senators regardless of size or population. Representatives are based on population and Puerto Rico is not given any special favors here. They will be treated like any other state and the number of Representatives is based on population. If the population goes down they get less, if it goes up they get more. That rule applies to all the states.

Puerto Rico will NOT get more power than other states. That's why you have the U.S. Senate and each state gets 2 Senators. The founding fathers did this so the big states wouldn't have more power and more leverage than the small states. That' why they put the Electoral College in place to choose the President. California has a lot of representatives because it's the biggest populated state in the Union and the people must be heard by their elected representatives but it only has 2 U.S. Senators like Hawaii. So when a bill goes out of the house and goes to the Senate, all States are equal in votes, 2 Senators per state regardless of size and population. So this myth that Puerto Rico will have more power than other states is a myth.

If that's the case only the big states in the U.S. like California, New York, Texas and Florida would control the laws and have the most leverage in what gets passed but that's not the case.


I already gave my reasons why P.R. is not a state and why it never had a strong statehood movement like Hawaii and it has to do more internally in the island than in Washington. Puerto Rico had a window after WW2 and the 50's to push hard for statehood like Hawaii did but the elites and big business in Puerto Rico like Luis Muñoz Marín and Jesús T. Piñero who had a 1 party rule in the island pushed and sold to the population the current Commonwealth status with huge tax-exempt benefits for them with the backing of U.S. politicians in Washington mostly from the Democrat Party, Dixiecrats (that's another topic I have my take) and ever since it has been hard to get out of it because P.R. is politically divided and so is the population of the island.
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Old 06-28-2018, 02:14 PM
miu
 
Location: MA/NH
17,623 posts, read 36,694,343 times
Reputation: 17454
Quote:
Originally Posted by clip314 View Post
The Puerto Rican delegation PLUS, delegations from Orlando, Philadelphia , Hartford , New Jersey , etc etc. Will create a HUGE ETHNIC BLOCK IN CONGRESS. If we add a coalition with Mexicans, and Blacks, congress will swing, LOL . ITS NOT THE UNITED STATES THAT WAS ENVISIONED IN 1776.

I think it’ll be great, but I’m also realistic.

At a time when Americans are worried about their identity and race, do you really think this scenario is real?

Common Another, think again. LOL
I don't think that the black community would necessarily form a voting black with the Hispanics. Not as long as the Latinos persist in speaking Spanish over English.

I work a lot in the hospitality industry, and whites were in the minority among the hourly workers. The blacks and Hispanics do not have strong bonds. And in fact the blacks feel shut out of certain departments because Spanish is the dominant language in those areas.

If Puerto Ricans would embrace English as their main language, they would be more welcomed by the rest of America. As to aid for the hurricane aftermath, instead of money, more Americans would be willing to help with purchases of building materials if they could see the people in Puerto providing the labour for their rebuild.
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