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Old 01-28-2018, 01:31 PM
 
Location: On a Long Island in NY
7,801 posts, read 9,073,824 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bamba_boy View Post
I completely disagree that the Democrats are anti-statehood. That doesn't even make sense looking at it from a point of pure self-interest. A 3-4 million population state with a solid Democratic majority controlling 7-10 Congressional votes makes statehood for PR a very likely yes vote for most or all of them. It's getting at least a handful of Republicans to vote for it is the tough part. Even if it is the right thing to do ethically I doubt if too many Republicans will vote against party self-interest and do what is ethically right , what is right for the PR people, and what is right for the USA. Also, all the conservative mainland money trying to extract bond repayment money. Easier to put your foot on the neck of a powerless unincorporated Commonwealth than a full-fledge State. I'm not holding my breath for any changes from Commonwealth.
^ this ... I have contacts in Washington including one who works in the office of a very, very, very well known Democratic senator. I know for a fact that before the hurricane over 100 (out of 188) Democratic members of the House were backing Gonzalez's statehood bill ... versus only 19 Republicans (out of 238). Post hurricane I wouldn't be all that surprised if every single House Democrat is backing the bill except Gutierrez and Velasquez. Republican support could well still be stuck at 19 ... and if it did increase it only went up by single digits. The other big obstacle is the Senate filibuster. Hawaii statehood bills were filibustered 5 times in the 1940s and 50s before they were able to get the votes to pass it in 1959. You need 60 votes to bypass that ... unless McConnell caves to Trump's demands and abolishes it.

Generally speaking the only Republicans that openly support statehood are either moderates (ie: Charlie Dent, Pete King, Will Hurd, etc) or are Hispanic (Marco Rubio, Raul Labrador, Carlos Curbelo, etc). Most Republicans believe that the current territorial ("commonwealth") status is the best option because it allows them a great deal of flexibility regarding spending and because they see it as the easy way out (ex. Puerto Ricans get to be Americans, but they can't vote in federal elections = win, win in their view).
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Old 01-28-2018, 06:38 PM
 
11,049 posts, read 4,328,654 times
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this is news to me.....when the Democrats had a majority in Congress from 1954 to 1994 and from 2006 to 2010 they never pass such a bill, even with Democrat Presidents in the W.H.


it's the same with immigration reform....when they have the majority in the house, senate and have the W.H., even for 2 years like Bill Clinton did from 1992 to 1994 and Obama from 2008 to 2010, they never did anything only they use it for elections and votes.

but let's pretend the Senate passes a statehood bill and it goes to the people of Puerto Rico to vote YES or NO, a straight vote. You think with the Populares and Independentistas joining forces to defeat the bill, statehood can get 2/3 of the votes or a simple majority?

I have seen this before many times in Puerto Rico.


Who do you think are the Democrat Party donors from Puerto Rico? you think when Obama went to Puerto Rico in 2011 was to take donations from the elites and corporations in P.R. that want statehood and pay federal taxes and end their tax haven?

Ask yourself a simple question, under statehood, who is the social class that will pay most of the FEDERAL taxes under state #51? the rich, elites and corporations and the 100 richest families in Puerto Rico. They control the media in Puerto Rico and donate lots of money to the U.S. politicians and in the island. Do the majority of them want statehood?

just follow the donations and campaigns in the island and who are pulling what strings.
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Old 01-28-2018, 08:28 PM
 
Location: On a Long Island in NY
7,801 posts, read 9,073,824 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hellion1999 View Post
this is news to me.....when the Democrats had a majority in Congress from 1954 to 1994 and from 2006 to 2010 they never pass such a bill, even with Democrat Presidents in the W.H.


it's the same with immigration reform....when they have the majority in the house, senate and have the W.H., even for 2 years like Bill Clinton did from 1992 to 1994 and Obama from 2008 to 2010, they never did anything only they use it for elections and votes.

but let's pretend the Senate passes a statehood bill and it goes to the people of Puerto Rico to vote YES or NO, a straight vote. You think with the Populares and Independentistas joining forces to defeat the bill, statehood can get 2/3 of the votes or a simple majority?

I have seen this before many times in Puerto Rico.


Who do you think are the Democrat Party donors from Puerto Rico? you think when Obama went to Puerto Rico in 2011 was to take donations from the elites and corporations in P.R. that want statehood and pay federal taxes and end their tax haven?

Ask yourself a simple question, under statehood, who is the social class that will pay most of the FEDERAL taxes under state #51? the rich, elites and corporations and the 100 richest families in Puerto Rico. They control the media in Puerto Rico and donate lots of money to the U.S. politicians and in the island. Do the majority of them want statehood?

just follow the donations and campaigns in the island and who are pulling what strings.
The House did in 2010.
https://www.congress.gov/bill/111th-...ouse-bill/2499

There is no ratification vote, the next step would be for Congress to authorize a convention to draft a state constitution ... which in all practical terms already happened in 1952. We'll just cross out the words libre and asociado in ELA and leave it be. Voters then approve the state constitution, they won't have a choice. Do they want Medicare & Medicaid funding parity? Then they'll have to vote yes.
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Old 01-28-2018, 09:00 PM
 
11,049 posts, read 4,328,654 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WIHS2006 View Post
The House did in 2010.
https://www.congress.gov/bill/111th-...ouse-bill/2499

There is no ratification vote, the next step would be for Congress to authorize a convention to draft a state constitution ... which in all practical terms already happened in 1952. We'll just cross out the words libre and asociado in ELA and leave it be. Voters then approve the state constitution, they won't have a choice. Do they want Medicare & Medicaid funding parity? Then they'll have to vote yes.

I remember this bill......it died in the Democrat Controlled Senate. Senate was 59 Democrats, 41 Republicans and 2 independents that mostly voted with the Democrats and a Democrat President and VP. It doesn't get any better than that for Democrats. That's how they passed Obamacare in 2010 with just Democrat votes.


https://annexx51.wordpress.com/2010/...status-report/
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Old 01-29-2018, 08:36 AM
Status: "No longer very optimistic." (set 23 days ago)
 
Location: Coastal Georgia
41,218 posts, read 51,035,158 times
Reputation: 71301
It is my (admittedly limited) understanding that the Puerto Rican political system is so messed up, that those in charge will never agree to the changes that would be required if PR became a state. To go from 78 small political entities down to 4 or 5? Which 73 mayors will choose to give up their little kingdoms?

The Puerto Rican’s need to stop pretending they want statehood. They really just want to stay the same, living off the bounty of Uncle Sam.
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Old 01-29-2018, 09:16 AM
 
Location: On a Long Island in NY
7,801 posts, read 9,073,824 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gentlearts View Post
It is my (admittedly limited) understanding that the Puerto Rican political system is so messed up, that those in charge will never agree to the changes that would be required if PR became a state. To go from 78 small political entities down to 4 or 5? Which 73 mayors will choose to give up their little kingdoms?

The Puerto Rican’s need to stop pretending they want statehood. They really just want to stay the same, living off the bounty of Uncle Sam.
Congress can impose requirements, but once the territory becomes a state they can just reverse any changes. It's called state sovereignty, a wonderful thing.
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Old 01-29-2018, 10:00 AM
 
94 posts, read 51,245 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WIHS2006 View Post
Congress can impose requirements, but once the territory becomes a state they can just reverse any changes. It's called state sovereignty, a wonderful thing.
Yes, and not only that. If PR decides a few years after becoming state that they don't like it and want to go back to Territory status, it's allowed.
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Old 01-29-2018, 11:25 AM
 
Location: On a Long Island in NY
7,801 posts, read 9,073,824 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MissLoudmouth View Post
Yes, and not only that. If PR decides a few years after becoming state that they don't like it and want to go back to Territory status, it's allowed.
Umm no, that's not how it works. Once your a state your stuck as a state (unless the United States dissolves).
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Old 04-19-2018, 01:09 AM
 
8,283 posts, read 6,787,330 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WIHS2006 View Post
So Puerto Ricans should just content themselves with being second class citizens and living in a colony?
Given that I don't hear anyone in Congress loudly campaigning for PR to be a state then that might well be what they have to do.

I even wonder if Puerto Ricans think that reps from the other 50 states will genuflect to what PR wants even if it received voting representation. A look at the current crisis with teachers suggests that poorer states in the USA have their own raft of problems, so I doubt that statehood will be the magic bullet which solves their problems.

If local government on that island is defective then it will remain so. The Feds keep out of local affairs most of the time. When Sandy hit it was the governors of NJ/NY who spearheaded the relief and recovery. They didn't wait for the Feds.
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Old 04-19-2018, 01:11 AM
 
8,283 posts, read 6,787,330 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WIHS2006 View Post
The American people disagree with Little Marco, yet another example of how the clueless Republicans are out of touch with reality:
Americans More Receptive to Puerto Rico as a State Than D.C. - Rasmussen Reports®

47% of Americans want Puerto Rico to become the 51st state (up from 33% in 2015), only 34% disagree (vs 39% in 2015). By the way, Rasmussen tends to oversample Republicans which means the percentage in support of statehood is likely higher in reality.

Onward to a more perfect union!
I wonder if that poll isn't merely a referendum on Trump. If/when PR arrives with a laundry list costing billions how will the taxpayers in the 50 other states react, given that they all have their problems as the underpaid teachers of WV just indicated.
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