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Old 06-11-2018, 03:39 PM
 
3,048 posts, read 1,324,319 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by clip314 View Post
Therefore the best alternative is statehood and let the Federal government take care of the rest.


This is the mentality that cripples Puerto Rico. "Let the federal government do that". They expect the feds to come and clean up after them so they don't do anything.



What did Puerto Rico do to prepare for the hurricanes that they knew were coming? NOTHING! That's the federal govnerments job. Meanwhile, their Latin American brethren in Cuba, which was hit just as hard by the storms, fared much better because they jumped to action and got things done with no outside help.



Then after all the supplies were rushed in, it was just sitting on the docks. They couldn't even distribute it to the people. Trump was right! "They expect you to do everything for them".
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Old 06-11-2018, 04:15 PM
 
11,048 posts, read 4,349,325 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by clip314 View Post

To make a long story short, it appears that Puerto Rico was never thought of as a future state.
A case in point: Hawaii was INCORPORATED in 1900, not so Puerto Rico which was acquired two years before.
I disagree.......You don't give U.S. Citizenship to a territory unless you want them to be part of the nation. Turning into the 20th century, the U.S. treated Hawaii differently than Puerto Rico based on geopolitics and the make up of the citizens in the territories and most important the elites and very powerful corporations and politicians pushing for statehood in Hawaii like Samuel Northrup Castle and Amos Starr Cooke rapidly became one of the largest companies in Hawaii, investing in shipping, railroad construction, sugar production and seafood packing. Add James Dole and Sanford Dole who were part of the Dole pineapple plantations in Hawaii who took over the island's government after disposing of the Queen and always pushed for statehood.

You didn't have that in Puerto Rico in the 20th century. It seems that Puerto Rico has always been divided politically and the elites and rich in Puerto Rico who controls much in the island always favored the status quo (the majority).

it took 60 years for the statehood movement in Hawaii to be admitted in the union. In Puerto Rico when Luis Munoz Marin and Jesus Piñero and the PPD party took absolute control of the politics in Puerto Rico in the 40's they NEVER pushed for statehood. They actually convinced the elites and corporations and the people in the island to support the new commonwealth that was put in place in 1952 while Hawaii pushed for statehood and got it in 1959.

History has consequences. Puerto Ricans are living today the consequences of the actions of their leaders decades ago. Hawaii had a strong statehood movement since 1900. Not so much for Puerto Rico, which the statehood movement only became a political force in the 70's but still are not the majority.
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Old 06-11-2018, 07:50 PM
 
Location: On a Long Island in NY
7,801 posts, read 9,095,719 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hellion1999 View Post
I disagree.......You don't give U.S. Citizenship to a territory unless you want them to be part of the nation. Turning into the 20th century, the U.S. treated Hawaii differently than Puerto Rico based on geopolitics and the make up of the citizens in the territories and most important the elites and very powerful corporations and politicians pushing for statehood in Hawaii like Samuel Northrup Castle and Amos Starr Cooke rapidly became one of the largest companies in Hawaii, investing in shipping, railroad construction, sugar production and seafood packing. Add James Dole and Sanford Dole who were part of the Dole pineapple plantations in Hawaii who took over the island's government after disposing of the Queen and always pushed for statehood.

You didn't have that in Puerto Rico in the 20th century. It seems that Puerto Rico has always been divided politically and the elites and rich in Puerto Rico who controls much in the island always favored the status quo (the majority).

it took 60 years for the statehood movement in Hawaii to be admitted in the union. In Puerto Rico when Luis Munoz Marin and Jesus Piñero and the PPD party took absolute control of the politics in Puerto Rico in the 40's they NEVER pushed for statehood. They actually convinced the elites and corporations and the people in the island to support the new commonwealth that was put in place in 1952 while Hawaii pushed for statehood and got it in 1959.

History has consequences. Puerto Ricans are living today the consequences of the actions of their leaders decades ago. Hawaii had a strong statehood movement since 1900. Not so much for Puerto Rico, which the statehood movement only became a political force in the 70's but still are not the majority.
Very good analysis

Chief Judge Gustavo Gelpi of the US District Court in San Juan takes a similar point of view, he argues that the evolution of Puerto Rico's relationship with the US has evolved into a de-facto incorporated territory. In fact, just last month he began the process of moving Consejo de Salud de la Playa de Ponce vs. Rullan up the ladder to the US Supreme Court.
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Old 06-12-2018, 09:32 PM
 
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do the people of pueto rico have to vote in state hood or is that the us gov.???
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Old 06-13-2018, 01:55 PM
 
3,048 posts, read 1,324,319 times
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Originally Posted by wildcherry View Post
do the people of pueto rico have to vote in state hood or is that the us gov.???

It's just Congress. The Puerto Rican vote means nothing. The plebescites are non-binding and are just supposed to influence what decision Congress makes.


They vote all the time and nothing ever happens.
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Old 06-13-2018, 04:41 PM
 
1,704 posts, read 868,986 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hellion1999 View Post
ask Congress why they haven't incorporated Puerto Rico fully in the federal tax system. Puerto Rico doesn't qualify for many federal tax benefits like the Earned Income Credit and other federal tax credits and benefits like many do in the 50 states.

The Puerto Rico status is complicated due to their history and internal politics and there is no simple answer in why doesn't every Puerto Rican wants statehood. I mean, in the 13 colonies not everybody wanted to be independent from GB. A lot of people in the 13 colonies wanted to stay a colony to the British Crown. It took a war to settle that but things are not so simple to explain why some prefer the status quo. Look at Bermuda, a British territory. Some want to be fully independent and the majority want to continue to be a British territory under British protection. The majority of the island is black so you can't say that White British moved to the island and controls public opinion and their local politics. Whites are the minority in Bermuda just like Hawaii.

I'm Puerto Rican and the reason I want statehood is that the U.S. system is all I have known all my life and is the only system that protects my individual rights and private property and the only system that I have prospered. No Latin Republic country offers that and most independentistas in Puerto Rico are socialists/communists that once they are in power you know what they are going to do just look at Venezuela, Cuba and the rest of the Latin Republics to see what happens when they have full power. If you think Puerto Rico's government is too big and taxes are too high now wait until these socialists/communists have full power in Puerto Rico and there is NO U.S. Federal jurisdiction in the island.

I can't speak for all Puerto Ricans. Each has their personal reasons why they support one choice over the other but let us be realistic, Puerto Ricans have been under the U.S. System and using U.S. Dollar as part of our lives for over 100 years. It's the only system we know and are used to. More Puerto Ricans live in the 50 states than in the island. The transition to statehood will be smoother than a new system that in unknown under a Republic and there is no guarantees. With statehood, we all know what you are going to get because we have millions of Puerto Ricans in the 50 states.

Like the saying goes, better the devil that you know that the devil that you don't.
Beautifully stated, Thank you. Now if we could get rid of the people that want freedom from the USA, and vote out the ones taking the money, we can then concentrate on being a State, and not a Colony.
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Old 06-16-2018, 01:39 PM
 
Location: On a Long Island in NY
7,801 posts, read 9,095,719 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by miu View Post
It would really help your cause, if everyone on your island would speak English well. Otherwise, most of your people live at a Third World level. It's not the job of the US government to bring the whole island to a First World level. Your people need to put some effort into their own advancement.
I found this little blurb about US senators visiting the (then) Territory of New Mexico:
Quote:
Senators visiting New Mexico in 1902 encountered school teachers, judges and a census supervisor who were monolingual Spanish speakers.

When the senators asked a former justice of the peace, José María García, why he continued to use Spanish, he replied: "I like my own language better than any other, the same as I like the United States better than any other country in the world."
New Mexico became a state 10 years later in 1912.
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Old 06-16-2018, 03:31 PM
 
2,482 posts, read 1,727,019 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by miu View Post
It would really help your cause, if everyone on your island would speak English well. Otherwise, most of your people live at a Third World level. It's not the job of the US government to bring the whole island to a First World level. Your people need to put some effort into their own advancement.
You need to visit PR..just once, and please don't say you already have..
I know you would be lying..

Most of the Missionaries came from that cold, uptight, area you live, aptly named New England.
.Once they got to Sun and sand of the Tropics..(not PR but other Island Paradises like Hawai'i.)...they didnt want to go back to the cold and repressiveness of whence they came.

just get your butt down to PR ..dig your pale toes in the sand, listen to some of that music that Sasie posts.. eat some good 'Rican Comidas, drink some Medallia, maybe sip on some local pitorro..haha.

Relax..you will lose that superior, uptight, attitude in a few hours, and be flying back so quickly to check out more of the culture, and more importantly, the beautiful people of Boricua.
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Old 06-18-2018, 05:15 PM
Status: "You're entitled to your own opinion, but not your own facts." (set 14 days ago)
 
Location: Raleigh NC
21,302 posts, read 11,178,330 times
Reputation: 12679
sometimes ignorance isn't bliss, it's just ignorance
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Old 06-19-2018, 01:52 AM
 
16 posts, read 13,174 times
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Honest and loyal
We don’t send out just any USA Land Care commissioner at any given time. We make sure the same commissioner visits your home every time, so they get to know you and to get to know your yard.
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