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Old 07-21-2018, 07:00 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Magic Qwan View Post
I thought about Mandarin. There are so many Mandarin speakers and China is gaining influence so fast that I'd definitely support Mandarin instruction in schools as a tertiary language. In general, the more languages the general population understands, the better. Any educated person should at least be fluent in the colonial languages and in languages like Mandarin which have a large number of speakers.



After English, Spanish is the next most commonly spoken language in the US. At the very least, I'd like to see Spanish as a mandatory primary and secondary school subject. That way, speakers whose primary language is not Spanish won't be excluded the way they are now because they will be able to understand Spanish. We can add more languages to the curriculum in order to ease communication later. French? Arabic? We could increase funding to teach children those as well. While I'll partially walk back my previous suggestion to make Spanish a secondary official language overnight, we should at least make sure the next generation is fluent in those additional languages they will probably encounter at work.

If we ever DID manage to make Spanish a second official language, we could take note from Canada (who currently has both English and French as official languages) and only require immigrants to learn English OR Spanish.

I understand people aren't going to learn English overnight and its ok if people pass along a family language on to their children for reasons of heritage. But, IMO, any government language policy should focus on ensuring everyone is able to speak English for domestic use.

Now there are intellectual and international benefits to knowing other languages. And we should promote language learning for those reasons. But, we already have enough divisions in our country, we don't need to add linguistic divisions to it.
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Old 07-21-2018, 07:07 PM
 
Location: Shreveport, LA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jpdivola View Post
I understand people aren't going to learn English overnight and its ok if people pass along a family language on to their children for reasons of heritage. But, IMO, any government language policy should focus on ensuring everyone is able to speak English for domestic use.

Now there are intellectual and international benefits to knowing other languages. And we should promote language learning for those reasons. But, we already have enough divisions in our country, we don't need to add linguistic divisions to it.
My point would be there already is a huge divide between English and Spanish speakers, and teaching Spanish to children would close that gap in the future because people could understand each other and couldn't form little "language-cliques" at jobs.
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Old 07-21-2018, 07:21 PM
miu
 
Location: MA/NH
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^^^ Well according to your chart, English is way more important a language to know in the US than even Spanish. And in order to succeed in the US, English should be the primary language for everyone.

IMO by coddling the immigrants and not requiring them to be fluent in English, is only holding them back from their full potential. And by still speaking in their native tongue, they are self-segregating themselves from mainstream American life. We need to offer them English immersion camps and take away the crutch of allowing them to keep their native tongue and surround themselves in communities composed of other non-English speaking immigrants.

And it's not fair to the US taxpayers as our public schools struggle to try to teach the children of these Spanish speaking immigrants. If they truly want their children to do well in America, they have to all learn English as a family unit, even only speaking English at home until everyone is fluent in it. They need to make a real commitment to joining American society.
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Old 07-21-2018, 08:04 PM
 
Location: Denver
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Originally Posted by miu View Post
Well speaking for myself, why would America want to make a Spanish speaking island into one of their states? One where part of their island is a tourist destination and the majority of it living in undeveloped conditions? Puerto Rico just doesn't have that much in common with the mainland states in terms of language preference, way of life, standards of land ownership, building codes, public school system or the quality of life. Even their long term goals and their priorities are vastly different from America. And the island is too far from the mainland to be connected by a bridge like the Keys are. If we make Puerto Rico a US state, then what's next... Haiti?

But it's not at all about the colour of their skin, and they are US citizens. But we don't want their island as part of America as a state.

And show me how over the decades, Puerto Rico has made any effort to be more like America, more US state-like. The people there don't have that driving ambition to more like mainland Americans.

It would make much more sense for Puerto Rico to ask to be part of Mexico or one of the countries in South America. They have much more in common with the people of those countries.
There thousands upon thousands of people who speak English there as well. I don't care about any of that being different, I don't look at it as an issue. They are Americans and they are under colonial rule, they live in those conditions due to their and own own policies so I feel it's our responsibility to take care of our own citizens. Puerto Rico has more in common with the US than half of the Caribbean and none of South America and definitely not Mexico.
Puerto Ricans are Americans and if this was any mainland state, you'd have a different opinion, the only reason why you don't agree with statehood or even welfare is because they speak Spanish and are poor. That's a bad look on you.
Haiti hasn't been under American rule for over 100 years so that's irrelevant.
What does be like America even mean and what does that have to do with anything? More of them live here than on the island, we have their culture ingrained in parts of our society. You have no idea about the country and it's embarrassing.
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Old 07-21-2018, 09:37 PM
 
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Originally Posted by annie_himself View Post
There thousands upon thousands of people who speak English there as well. I don't care about any of that being different, I don't look at it as an issue. They are Americans and they are under colonial rule, they live in those conditions due to their and own own policies so I feel it's our responsibility to take care of our own citizens.
They get lots of free stuff and don't appreciate it.
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Old 07-21-2018, 09:38 PM
 
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https://www.google.com/search?q=carm...2QvRxNdgGHaHM:
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Old 07-21-2018, 09:41 PM
 
Location: On a Long Island in NY
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Quote:
Originally Posted by miu View Post
Maybe in Europe, you will meet many multi-lingual people, as their countries are small and sharing borders. However, the majority of Americans are content with only knowing one language.... English. So no way would they be interested in knowing three languages well, English, Spanish and Mandarin. That is just crazy talk and a huge waste of taxpayer dollars. As it is, we really need to stop trying to force all of our grade school students to be on an honors level college track. Not every adult wants to work a white collar tech or software writing job or to be a doctor... and with a huge college debt. Instead, we need to evaluate each student on an individual basis, and honestly, many would be happier with a blue collar career where there will actually be a future shortage for those sorts of jobs.
Reminds me of the old joke: "What do you call someone who speaks multiple languages? Bilingual. What do you call someone who speaks one language? An American". Once upon a time in the US being bilingual was considered a sign of being well educated and cultured. Today it's derided as treason.

Lastly, the reality is that in 2018 Puerto Rico is more like Miami than Mexico City. It's really not that alien anymore. The first time I went to Puerto Rico in 2005 I remarked that it was "Brentwood with palm trees" in reference to a heavily Hispanic community here on Long Island. Hispanics have been part of the fabric of our country since the US annexed Florida in 1810 and especially so when the US annexed California, New Mexico, Texas, etc in the 1840s. The original California state constitution was written in Spanish. Spanish was the primary language in New Mexico well into the early 1900s.

Last edited by WIHS2006; 07-21-2018 at 09:50 PM..
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Old 07-21-2018, 11:33 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Magic Qwan View Post
My point would be there already is a huge divide between English and Spanish speakers, and teaching Spanish to children would close that gap in the future because people could understand each other and couldn't form little "language-cliques" at jobs.
I can see where you are coming from and it probably makes sense in the PR context. But, on the mainland I think English should just be the language. No need for English speakers to learn Spanish to communicate domestically. I mean we have lots of immigrant languages. We can't realistically learn them all. I don't expect people to learn my family's native language. Better, to just have everybody learn and use English.


I'm not the kind of poster ranting about univision and press 2 for Spanish, but I really do think promoting the US as a bilingual society will just fuel social divisions. We need a compromise. Racists yelling at people speaking Spanish in public need to be told to shut up, but conversely we should all just accept English as our common language.

Last edited by jpdivola; 07-21-2018 at 11:42 PM..
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Old 07-22-2018, 12:22 AM
 
2,277 posts, read 887,122 times
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Can someone explain to me why the territory of P.R. is such a mess socially and economically despite massive infusions of capital from the U.S?
Why have they become a dependent, welfare-oriented society when other island polities like Singapore, Bermuda, and Cyprus prosper despite their small size or population?
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Old 07-22-2018, 12:43 AM
 
Location: Denver
14,883 posts, read 21,674,694 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Branal View Post
They get lots of free stuff and don't appreciate it.
They also pay federal taxes and can't vote for president. Taxation without representation. We started a small war over that issue.
Quote:
Originally Posted by PamelaIamela View Post
Can someone explain to me why the territory of P.R. is such a mess socially and economically despite massive infusions of capital from the U.S?
Why have they become a dependent, welfare-oriented society when other island polities like Singapore, Bermuda, and Cyprus prosper despite their small size or population?
Do you have the internet?
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