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Old 07-22-2018, 01:32 AM
 
Location: Shreveport, LA
1,457 posts, read 1,188,240 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PamelaIamela View Post
Can someone explain to me why the territory of P.R. is such a mess socially and economically despite massive infusions of capital from the U.S?
Why have they become a dependent, welfare-oriented society when other island polities like Singapore, Bermuda, and Cyprus prosper despite their small size or population?
Part of it is natural disasters, but I'll have a more complete answer later.
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Old 07-22-2018, 05:56 AM
 
328 posts, read 187,752 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Magic Qwan View Post
Part of it is natural disasters,
Yah, that caused about 5% of the problems there.

Last edited by Branal; 07-22-2018 at 06:05 AM..
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Old 07-22-2018, 06:26 AM
 
328 posts, read 187,752 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PamelaIamela View Post
Can someone explain to me why the territory of P.R. is such a mess socially and economically despite massive infusions of capital from the U.S?
Why have they become a dependent, welfare-oriented society when other island polities like Singapore, Bermuda, and Cyprus prosper despite their small size or population?
party culture
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Old 07-22-2018, 08:01 AM
 
3,064 posts, read 1,333,935 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WIHS2006 View Post
Reminds me of the old joke: "What do you call someone who speaks multiple languages? Bilingual. What do you call someone who speaks one language? An American".
Well, the majority of people in Latin America only speak Spanish or Portuguese, so what does that make them?
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Old 07-22-2018, 08:44 AM
 
Location: On a Long Island in NY
7,801 posts, read 9,110,224 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PamelaIamela View Post
Can someone explain to me why the territory of P.R. is such a mess socially and economically despite massive infusions of capital from the U.S?
Why is Alabama so poor? Why can't Alabama stand on it's own two feet instead of forcing New Yorkers and Californians to pay for everything?

I can play this game all day if you want.
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Old 07-22-2018, 09:44 AM
 
2,017 posts, read 1,393,815 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PamelaIamela View Post
Can someone explain to me why the territory of P.R. is such a mess socially and economically despite massive infusions of capital from the U.S?
Why have they become a dependent, welfare-oriented society when other island polities like Singapore, Bermuda, and Cyprus prosper despite their small size or population?
Singapores achievements are impressive, but its a city that serves as major trade hub for a massive region. Not really comparible to a somewhat remote island. Bermuda has a much smaller population so it can support its pop as a tax/reg haven.

There is also the english vs spanish colony legacy issue. It's no secret English colonies developed better institutions (better governance, rule of law, education, universities, access to sci/tecg, the English language, and arguably the protestant culture.)

Hawaii is probably a better basis for comparison. Its economy largely revolves around tourism, military, and ag, with a limited mostly locally oriented service economy. PR lacks the military presence and its pop is larger making the ag and tourism industries not go as far.

Going forward it probably isnt realistic for PR to have a high tech/corp economy like SF or even Atl. Mfg is probably not competitive with automation or Asia or even Mexico. Back office services is probably PRs best bet. But for that they need a few things: improved english skills, better school/focused training programs and reforms to the tax/welfare/reg model which implicitly incentivise informal sector over formal emplyment.

This is all easier said than done of course. PR governments have been trying to do this. Outside of 20-30 big metro areas and college/lifestyle towns, much of the US is struggling with similar challenges of how do you grow a middle class without an industrial base.
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Old 07-22-2018, 09:51 AM
 
328 posts, read 187,752 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WIHS2006 View Post
Why is Alabama so poor? Why can't Alabama stand on it's own two feet instead of forcing New Yorkers and Californians to pay for everything?

I can play this game all day if you want.
Alabama gets hit by storms too but they don't wait and let FEMA be the first responder. I bet they also wouldn't try to live for free in government hotels for a year in someone else's state.
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Old 07-22-2018, 10:04 AM
 
2,293 posts, read 895,694 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WIHS2006 View Post
Why is Alabama so poor? Why can't Alabama stand on it's own two feet instead of forcing New Yorkers and Californians to pay for everything?

I can play this game all day if you want.
I do not play games; I make valid points and reasoned arguments.
Alabama is a state, PR is not, and each functions within the framework of the Constitution with rights as such. Are you also aware that PR receives OVER THREE TIMES the federal $$$ as AL per capita?

And by your standard why not also compare PR to Bed-Stuy or parts of West La with similar populations? Or Palm Beach County while where at it?
Because they are not similar POLITIES arguing for or capable of achieving independence.

You can play this silly 'game' if you want, but you will be playing with yourself.

Last edited by PamelaIamela; 07-22-2018 at 10:18 AM..
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Old 07-22-2018, 10:47 AM
 
2,017 posts, read 1,393,815 times
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The federal tax vs spending issues is pretty complex. I don't fully understand all of the intricacies. But, I think the general take away is

1) PR benefits from its current status as a territory. It receives far more in federal spending that it pays into federal coffers.

2) PR arguably has among the best tax to benefit ratio of any US state. But, would probably receive even more as a state. Residents would have to pay federal income taxes, but because incomes are pretty low, they wouldn't pay that much. That increase in taxes would probably be more than offset by higher social welfare spending/EITC.

However, statehood would be unsustainable. Nationally, PR's fiscal subsidy would almost certainly be far larger than any other state. Locally, statehood and the related tax/spending impacts would raise taxes on the middle class/formal economy and implicitly subsidize unemployment/informal economy. Hardly a combination for a sustainable economy/politics.

https://pasquines.us/2015/07/22/how-...ing-and-taxes/


All in all, I think PR has a pretty fair set up currently. I would argue getting rid of the Jones Act is a more sympathetic argument for what the US can do to help PR. https://www.pbs.org/newshour/nation/...ns-puerto-rico
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Old 07-22-2018, 10:55 AM
 
328 posts, read 187,752 times
Reputation: 371
Quote:
Originally Posted by PamelaIamela View Post
I do not play games; I make valid points and reasoned arguments.
Alabama is a state, PR is not, and each functions within the framework of the Constitution with rights as such. Are you also aware that PR receives OVER THREE TIMES the federal $$$ as AL per capita?

And by your standard why not also compare PR to Bed-Stuy or parts of West La with similar populations? Or Palm Beach County while where at it?
Because they are not similar POLITIES arguing for or capable of achieving independence.

You can play this silly 'game' if you want, but you will be playing with yourself.
Alabama is also able to provide electrical power to it's people, which PR could not do even before the storm.

It is not a functional island.
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