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In my Latino Studies class, they really made it seem like Puerto Ricans wanting to be a state were “slaves” and how being independent was the best thing Puerto Rico could do.
Those kinds of classes tend to be taught by independenistas or by those whom the only Puerto Ricans they come into contact with are independenistas. Academia tends to be very liberal and within the context of Puerto Rican politics the only people as left wing as mainland "progressives" are the independenistas.
The independence movement is dead and has been so for over 60 years. The only people who haven't gotten the message are the ignorant White nationalist types (who just hate all minorities), the Nuyorican "diaspora" professional activists stuck in the 1940s and 50s, and the few remaining independenistas on the island.
and the military? The United States has over 800 military bases around the world, and 76 of these are in Latin America. Among the best known are 12 in Panama,9 in Colombia, and 8 in Peru, with the greatest number concentrated in Central America and the Caribbean.....so NO! P.R. is not indispensable.
What? Where are you getting this info?
There is literally zero US military presence in the Caribbean, Central America, and South America beyond the US Coast Guard, US Marine embassy guards, defense attaches, training/advisory missions, and Joint Task Force Bravo at Soto Cano Airbase in the Honduras. France and the Netherlands have a larger military presence in the region than we do. Heck, maybe even the British too ... and the West Indies Patrol Task is down to a single warship (nowadays usually a River class patrol ship) and a Royal Fleet Auxiliary ship.
The "800 bases" is a complete fantasy. They count Marine embassy guards as a 'base', and they have no weapons beyond pistols, shotguns, and tear gas. A neocon like me can only wish we had 800 bases across the world ... that's like a wetdream to me, Max Boot, and Bill Kristol
Interesting discussion.
I was a US Army military dependent when my dad was stationed at Fort Brooke (from 1950-1954), which was located within the walls of El Morro fortress in Old San Juan. Being in elementary school at the time, I had only a rudimentary knowledge of the Nationalist Party’s attempt to start a revolution against American domination/colonialism.
I do recall one day in ‘50 when we military dependent kids were hastily bused with an armed escort back to Fort Brooke from our school at the Naval Air Station around the Bay. Word was out that some sort of attacks were imminent that day, and we kids were to stay in our quarters with our moms. All our dads were on alert duty. Since our house was only about a quarter mile from La Fortaleza, we could hear a lot of shooting from there as the Nationalists tried to storm the Governor’s residence. My dad was tear gassed on duty in the Antilles HQ accidentally by the National Guard when the wind shifted. Lol
I read years later that when Fort Brooke was deactivated and El Morro turned over to the National Park Service in 1967, all the “modern” US military structures within its walls were demolished. I loved living on that post, because the ancient fort was a kid’s dream playground. So was Fort San Cristobal - including the old dungeons with centuries-old graffiti, sailing ship art & dates scratched into the stone/plastered walls.
Rodriguez Army Hospital was located on the post, and it was full of casualties from the far off Korean War. Most of the wounded troops were from the Puerto Rican units that had been sent over to fight the communists.
We thought the island was a beautiful place, but were astonished by so much poverty sprinkled around. I remember the locals as being friendly, although we Armybrat kids had some “battles” with the kids in the La Perla barrio just outside the walls of El Morro. We were really sad to leave when Dad was transferred back stateside, but happy to be close to family again. We enjoyed several trips around the island to Ponce, Mayaguez, Phosphorescent Bay, El Yunque, & San Germaine. We visited with the Figueroa family at their plantation home near Ponce a couple of times - they were friends of friends who lived nearby. Nice folks.
Those were the days when tourism was just getting started and before the Rockefeller’s bought up huge tracts of land to build their resorts. And the beautiful beaches outside the San Juan area we’re almost empty.
Interesting discussion.
I was a US Army military dependent when my dad was stationed at Fort Brooke (from 1950-1954), which was located within the walls of El Morro fortress in Old San Juan. Being in elementary school at the time, I had only a rudimentary knowledge of the Nationalist Party’s attempt to start a revolution against American domination/colonialism.
I do recall one day in ‘50 when we military dependent kids were hastily bused with an armed escort back to Fort Brooke from our school at the Naval Air Station around the Bay. Word was out that some sort of attacks were imminent that day, and we kids were to stay in our quarters with our moms. All our dads were on alert duty. Since our house was only about a quarter mile from La Fortaleza, we could hear a lot of shooting from there as the Nationalists tried to storm the Governor’s residence. My dad was tear gassed on duty in the Antilles HQ accidentally by the National Guard when the wind shifted. Lol
I read years later that when Fort Brooke was deactivated and El Morro turned over to the National Park Service in 1967, all the “modern” US military structures within its walls were demolished. I loved living on that post, because the ancient fort was a kid’s dream playground. So was Fort San Cristobal - including the old dungeons with centuries-old graffiti, sailing ship art & dates scratched into the stone/plastered walls.
Rodriguez Army Hospital was located on the post, and it was full of casualties from the far off Korean War. Most of the wounded troops were from the Puerto Rican units that had been sent over to fight the communists.
We thought the island was a beautiful place, but were astonished by so much poverty sprinkled around. I remember the locals as being friendly, although we Armybrat kids had some “battles” with the kids in the La Perla barrio just outside the walls of El Morro. We were really sad to leave when Dad was transferred back stateside, but happy to be close to family again. We enjoyed several trips around the island to Ponce, Mayaguez, Phosphorescent Bay, El Yunque, & San Germaine. We visited with the Figueroa family at their plantation home near Ponce a couple of times - they were friends of friends who lived nearby. Nice folks.
Those were the days when tourism was just getting started and before the Rockefeller’s bought up huge tracts of land to build their resorts. And the beautiful beaches outside the San Juan area we’re almost empty.
if you happen to have pictures from that time it would be awesome if you could post them
NO. indispensable? Do you know the meaning of that word? it means absolutely necessary,
essential, crucial, necessary, key, vital, needed, required.
Now, Puerto Rico at this moment needs the U.S. in a crucial, essential, absolute and necessary way. They need the federal recovery funds and the other federal funds they get annually to make the system function in the island. They need the U.S. to keep a strong stable Dollar with low inflation and a strong U.S. economy.
As the saying goes, if the U.S. economy catches a cold, the P.R. economy will get a bad case of Pneumonia.
and the military? The United States has over 800 military bases around the world, and 76 of these are in Latin America. Among the best known are 12 in Panama,9 in Colombia, and 8 in Peru, with the greatest number concentrated in Central America and the Caribbean.....so NO! P.R. is not indispensable.
Once again, I hate to totally agree with you but, I totally agree with you! You're spot on! Would rep you again if I could.
Puerto Rico should become U.S. state 51 if they want attention from U.S.. Otherwise, it would be its own country and we don't need to worry about Puerto Rico. Either they're part of America or just don't be involved with U.S. and seeking our help.
the question is do the majority of Puerto Ricans in the island (not in the states) feel Americans above anything else and the answer is NO.
You can't admit a territory as a state where the majority in the territory don't feel Americans. That's decades of politics, education, and propaganda in the island to get that that it has been ignored and I blame the local government and public education system.
This is the mentality in the island of many people, they rather reject statehood to keep the Olympic team and Miss Universe independent from the USA because they want to be known to the world as Puerto Ricans only not Americans above all. That's the reason most of them fly only the Puerto Rican flag and not the USA flag and only a few celebrate the 4th of July on the island.
I'm Pro USA and I will fly the USA above the Puerto Rican flag because the USA is my nation. Serving in the U.S. Military and getting educated in the states and made me feel that way but the majority on the island doesn't feel that way. Many Puerto Ricans in the states feels the same way. (but is the people on the island that count because they live on the island)
Before I get jumped here, I don't speak for all Puerto Ricans. Just telling it like I see it from the inside and now outside. I was born in Puerto Rico and was raised there until I was 18 years old and went to their Public Schools and keep going to the island to visit. Nowhere in their Public Schools, they teach American Civics or real U.S. History. They emphasize more on Spain history and the Spanish language in reading and culture for decades and that results in a disconnection from the USA to the majority in the island especially the poor and lower class that pushing a statehood bill is not going to fix.
Hellion1999,
In first place, thanks for your honorable service in the US military. My uncle (RIP) was a Borinqueneer and we were all proud of him. The last commendation he received was in 2016 from the City of Jacksonville in Florida, where he lived for 30 years.
I don't know if your case is like my uncle. He was an extremely poor "jíbaro" from the mountains with a high school diploma when he joined the military. After his service, he returned very affected mentally. He suffered from PTSD. However, he worked in the postal service even with that limitation. My uncle never went to college, and his mindset was like a zealot because he didn't get the skills to think beyond of the brainwash of the military. All countries brainwash in some way their soldies to make them stronger. Your post suggests me that.
The political relationship of Puerto Rico with the US is complex. It can't be addressed from one perspective only. I divide Puerto Rico's history into four periods: (1) Under indigenous rule, (2) Under Spanish rule, (3) Under US rule prior to the Commonwealth, and (4) Under US rule after the Commonwealth. As you can see, it is a very long history involving many events and sentiments. It can't be treated with a simplistic "let's convert Puerto Rico a state."
The actual school curriculum has been an adaptation of the school curriculum of the US to the distinctive personality of Puerto Rico. At the beggining of the US rule, the English language was literally imposed in all public schools and that was a disaster to many poor "jíbaros". Those were the times when the heads of the Department of Education were appointed by Washington. The first Secretary was Martin G. Brumbaugh. Under his administration, many school names were changed to American patriots and Puerto Ricans resisted those efforts to americanize them. I took a requisite course in college on History of Education in Puerto Rico when I was doing my bachelors at the Inter-American University in San Juan.
Things started to change dramatically after the island became a Commonwealth. There was the Operation Bootstrap that helped bring factories to the island, and college enrollment increased due to the fact that students started to qualify for federal grants. College access was crucial to maintain a competitive labor force. The Commonwealth brought progress to a very depressed and poor island, but it was artificial at the expense of federal subsidies and tax exemptions. The local governments never envisioned a real sustainable economy without external boost. Things started to go down the hill after Section 936 of the IRS Code was eliminated in the 1990s until the present day when things are really upside down.
I wish Puerto Rico could be a state too, but just because of the language barrier I don't see it coming soon. Keeping the language barrier has been part of the agenda to maintain Puerto Rico separated from the US. The local media is the principal instrument in doing that. I don't think I will return to Puerto Rico any time soon, and this has nothing to do with the economy. It's because living in a place like the US is living in the World. This country has so many different people, cultures, religions, etc that makes me broaden my mindset.
I hope this helps.
Last edited by diegomar2007; 04-12-2019 at 06:03 PM..
the question is do the majority of Puerto Ricans in the island (not in the states) feel Americans above anything else and the answer is NO.
You can't admit a territory as a state where the majority in the territory don't feel Americans. That's decades of politics, education, and propaganda in the island to get that that it has been ignored and I blame the local government and public education system.
This is the mentality in the island of many people, they rather reject statehood to keep the Olympic team and Miss Universe independent from the USA because they want to be known to the world as Puerto Ricans only not Americans above all. That's the reason most of them fly only the Puerto Rican flag and not the USA flag and only a few celebrate the 4th of July on the island.
I'm Pro USA and I will fly the USA above the Puerto Rican flag because the USA is my nation. Serving in the U.S. Military and getting educated in the states and made me feel that way but the majority on the island doesn't feel that way. Many Puerto Ricans in the states feels the same way. (but is the people on the island that count because they live on the island)
Before I get jumped here, I don't speak for all Puerto Ricans. Just telling it like I see it from the inside and now outside. I was born in Puerto Rico and was raised there until I was 18 years old and went to their Public Schools and keep going to the island to visit. Nowhere in their Public Schools, they teach American Civics or real U.S. History. They emphasize more on Spain history and the Spanish language in reading and culture for decades and that results in a disconnection from the USA to the majority in the island especially the poor and lower class that pushing a statehood bill is not going to fix.
God Bless you and Thank you for your service.
I pray for your people that they can one day lift themselves up from their own boot straps
pay off their monumental debt ,rebuild their decimated land and jump start a profitable economy.
You are a proud people but Puerto Rico is in big financial trouble and unfortunately to risky of a
gamble for any nation to consider investing. There is light at the end of the tunnel but I see poverty
for many many years to come.
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