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Old 07-19-2019, 12:11 PM
 
Location: Somewhere on the Moon.
10,348 posts, read 15,221,809 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aax View Post
Is that island policy now? Or just the opinion of one moron in a video?
It's not island policy, but one has to imagine that if him or the other people that think like him (where there is one, there are more) is willing to hurt the governor and/or his immediate family if they are seen somewhere in PR.
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Old 07-19-2019, 01:26 PM
 
Location: On a Long Island in NY
7,800 posts, read 10,137,060 times
Reputation: 7366
Quote:
Originally Posted by AntonioR View Post
Rosello should definitely resign, but I think some Puerto Ricans are going about this in the wrong direction. Is it really necessary to have protests filling the streets of Old San Juan to the point that cruises are choosing to stop at the Virgin Islands instead of San Juan? Do some people really needed to spray paint graffiti and gibberish even on important attractions of Old San Juan? Rosello will be out of power whether he resigns or runs of the rest of his term (don’t see how he can pull that off), but hurting PR’s tourism industry at a time the island is still recuperating from Hurricane Maria doesn’t seem to be very smart. It’s easier to destroy than to build. What takes years to build up can come crashing down in a few days if the people aren’t careful about this. He may be a very important guy in PR, but he is just one man out of millions.





I share this concern, there has been a big uptick in tourism lately and several economic indicators have begun to trend upwards. This is being put at risk with all these protests. Additionally, for every person that is inspired by these protests there's another person who now sees Puerto Ricans as rowdy thugs. These massive protests, the scenes of cops fighting with rioters, and Tito Kayak ripping down the American flag isn't good for the island's image. Yes, 95% of the protesters are peaceful but some of these images aren't so positive for the one sector of Puerto Rico's economy that has been growing as of late.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AntonioR View Post
It's not island policy, but one has to imagine that if him or the other people that think like him (where there is one, there are more) is willing to hurt the governor and/or his immediate family if they are seen somewhere in PR.
Yep, unfortunately members of the media (particularly Sandra Rodriguez Cotto) keep posting speculation on the governor's whereabouts. Someone is going to get hurt or killed because of this, the media is being extremely irresponsible. Having a lynch mob going after him and/or his family isn't going to help matters and if any harm comes to a member of the Rossello family (particularly his kids) it's quite likely the PNP will close ranks around him and he won't be going anywhere until 2021. We are getting to the point where the party is beginning to make serious moves toward ousting Rossello, I've seen the rumored list of SoS candidates and they are all good picks ... LET THE PROCESS PLAY OUT. Nearly everyone acknowledges he has to go. He will be gone soon, I promise LOL
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Old 07-19-2019, 06:48 PM
aax
 
710 posts, read 503,553 times
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These protests are a big party. An excuse for people to skip work and school.
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Old 07-20-2019, 07:31 AM
 
529 posts, read 1,090,502 times
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Rosello’s Chats were just the precipitating factor of an island wide explosion. Frustration had been building up for decades before Rosselló. Between SCOTUS declaring that Congress never intended to give Puerto Rico autonomy, thus it was always a ward of Congress. Then came Hurricane Maria, Trump throwing paper towels, the imposition of Promesa, without consulting the Puerto Rican people and finally the chats were the last straw.

As it looks today, Rosselló will not resign. He’s putting his pension and escort service in Jeopardy. The longer he stays, he hopes, the protests will die down.

Nonetheless the lower house is preparing an IMPEACHMENT process, to be sent on to the Senate.
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Old 07-21-2019, 03:05 PM
 
1,960 posts, read 4,676,941 times
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The reason I don't support the protests is the fact that separatist tangent narratives are being co-opted under the banner of the politically incorrect chat strings. Ditto for the corruption allegation at large. I find it unnuanced and politically expedient, and people are getting themselves in a froth barking up the wrong tree. This is politics 101, nothing new under the sun. That's not really the issue for me.

The issue for me are the second tier effects these one-dimensional chess players we call the mob don't recognize. Specifically, and as it has been highlighted here already, these unnuanced protests serve as fuel for an ethnocentric Continental Anglo white population of historically poor Civics education as it is, endemically primed to see Puerto Ricans as coconut heads who can't govern themselves (all the way back to the Insular Cases, for those in the CONUS who wish to deny the worse British-descendant impulses), becoming emboldened to turn that narrative to 11 on account of the current occupant of the White House and the re-formulation of ye 'ol Southern Strategy.

And as always, the treasonous Puerto Rican aristocracy leaves on their jets for the mainland and abroad, continuing their grafty lives while the plebe continues to endure lives of colonial subjugation, whilst having a passport in their pockets most Latin Americans would kill for. The irony doesn't escape me. Good luck getting the Puerto Rican press to swing back the floodlight to the cave these cowards hang from, with their beady little reflective eyes, counting their money and lobbying for the preservation of the island's foreign tax categorization for IRS purposes. The enemy within. That's who the mob should be storming like the Bastille, not the revolving door figure head puppet governor of these 4 years, on the basis of some social justice warrior millenial sensitivity to coffee table colloquial bigotry (cast ye first stone kinda thing). Not excusing it, but Acevedo Vilá wouldn't have lasted a week on account of that social agenda, if he were governor today. LOL La copita roja! So I'm much less interested in that being the impetus behind torching a 520 year old city.


Here's my appeal to Continentals: Let me remind the gallery that at the epicenter of the FBI raid and the actual corruption scandal, is Julia Keleher, a Continental Anglo white woman, and a host of Anglo grifters following federal money. Whether they do it in Hawaii, Michigan, or Puerto Rico, makes no difference, but the optics here are slanted against Puerto Rico. I'd be remiss if I don't remind folks that there's plenty Anglo corruption at the heart of the systemic corruption of the island. It's not just coconut heads who can't govern themselves. It is imperative for us CONUS dwelling Puerto Ricans to highlight this. I already got my hands full in Texas, living in a county that voted 75% red in the 2018 mid terms, an election which swept blue nationally mind you. My neighbors couldn't pick PR on a map if their insufferable gun ownership hobby depended on it, so it's a tall order to keep manifest destiny sentiments at bay up in here as it is. Don't shoot the messenger, no pun intended.

As to my personal angle in the island, with two pensioner parents under siege down there, I'm much more interested in the federal title III case and the PROMESA board as being more definitive in the next chapter of the island. From my perspective as a diaspora casualty, this is on par to the gentrification of the island by monied interests, not the least of which is the Puerto Rican aristocracy. With both Anglos and rich Puerto Ricans holding all the cards, the equity of citizenship of the rank and file labor-value reliant (aka W-2 equivalent) Puerto Rican is farther away from being realized. I too dream of a day where as a US citizen I didn't have to flee my formative home in order to empower my son to realize his potential as an American. Nothing against Texas, and economic nomadism is not new to the American Experience, but this goes beyond the pale. This isn't choice, this is subjugation and colonialism and that policy hypocrisy needs to be called out. And I digress. Count me out of support for the protests, on technicality grounds as it may seem. Game is chess, these people are playing checkers and they don't even know it.
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Old 07-21-2019, 03:32 PM
 
Location: On a Long Island in NY
7,800 posts, read 10,137,060 times
Reputation: 7366
Quote:
Originally Posted by hindsight2020 View Post
The reason I don't support the protests is the fact that separatist tangent narratives are being co-opted under the banner of the politically incorrect chat strings. Ditto for the corruption allegation at large. I find it unnuanced and politically expedient, and people are getting themselves in a froth barking up the wrong tree. This is politics 101, nothing new under the sun. That's not really the issue for me.

The issue for me are the second tier effects these one-dimensional chess players we call the mob don't recognize. Specifically, and as it has been highlighted here already, these unnuanced protests serve as fuel for an ethnocentric Continental Anglo white population of historically poor Civics education as it is, endemically primed to see Puerto Ricans as coconut heads who can't govern themselves (all the way back to the Insular Cases, for those in the CONUS who wish to deny the worse British-descendant impulses), becoming emboldened to turn that narrative to 11 on account of the current occupant of the White House and the re-formulation of ye 'ol Southern Strategy.

And as always, the treasonous Puerto Rican aristocracy leaves on their jets for the mainland and abroad, continuing their grafty lives while the plebe continues to endure lives of colonial subjugation, whilst having a passport in their pockets most Latin Americans would kill for. The irony doesn't escape me. Good luck getting the Puerto Rican press to swing back the floodlight to the cave these cowards hang from, with their beady little reflective eyes, counting their money and lobbying for the preservation of the island's foreign tax categorization for IRS purposes. The enemy within. That's who the mob should be storming like the Bastille, not the revolving door figure head puppet governor of these 4 years, on the basis of some social justice warrior millenial sensitivity to coffee table colloquial bigotry (cast ye first stone kinda thing). Not excusing it, but Acevedo Vilá wouldn't have lasted a week on account of that social agenda, if he were governor today. LOL La copita roja! So I'm much less interested in that being the impetus behind torching a 520 year old city.


Here's my appeal to Continentals: Let me remind the gallery that at the epicenter of the FBI raid and the actual corruption scandal, is Julia Keleher, a Continental Anglo white woman, and a host of Anglo grifters following federal money. Whether they do it in Hawaii, Michigan, or Puerto Rico, makes no difference, but the optics here are slanted against Puerto Rico. I'd be remiss if I don't remind folks that there's plenty Anglo corruption at the heart of the systemic corruption of the island. It's not just coconut heads who can't govern themselves. It is imperative for us CONUS dwelling Puerto Ricans to highlight this. I already got my hands full in Texas, living in a county that voted 75% red in the 2018 mid terms, an election which swept blue nationally mind you. My neighbors couldn't pick PR on a map if their insufferable gun ownership hobby depended on it, so it's a tall order to keep manifest destiny sentiments at bay up in here as it is. Don't shoot the messenger, no pun intended.

As to my personal angle in the island, with two pensioner parents under siege down there, I'm much more interested in the federal title III case and the PROMESA board as being more definitive in the next chapter of the island. From my perspective as a diaspora casualty, this is on par to the gentrification of the island by monied interests, not the least of which is the Puerto Rican aristocracy. With both Anglos and rich Puerto Ricans holding all the cards, the equity of citizenship of the rank and file labor-value reliant (aka W-2 equivalent) Puerto Rican is farther away from being realized. I too dream of a day where as a US citizen I didn't have to flee my formative home in order to empower my son to realize his potential as an American. Nothing against Texas, and economic nomadism is not new to the American Experience, but this goes beyond the pale. This isn't choice, this is subjugation and colonialism and that policy hypocrisy needs to be called out. And I digress. Count me out of support for the protests, on technicality grounds as it may seem. Game is chess, these people are playing checkers and they don't even know it.
You know, you bring up a really good point. Nobody protested against Acevedo Vila when he was indicted, heck his party kept on supporting him for re-election!

I definitely agree that the independenistas are using these protests as a mean as hurting Puerto Rico's image on the mainland, and the media is almost certainly fanning the flames in an effort to get more people to the streets. That said, many of the people marching are pro-statehood. Remember ... not all statehooders belong to the PNP and these days I'd say that as many as half of self identified statehooders do not belong to any party.

Rossello has done serious damage to the statehood movement but we'll get there one day.
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Old 07-23-2019, 11:27 AM
 
Location: Philly
10,227 posts, read 16,877,925 times
Reputation: 2973
Quote:
Originally Posted by WIHS2006 View Post
You know, you bring up a really good point. Nobody protested against Acevedo Vila when he was indicted, heck his party kept on supporting him for re-election!

I definitely agree that the independenistas are using these protests as a mean as hurting Puerto Rico's image on the mainland, and the media is almost certainly fanning the flames in an effort to get more people to the streets. That said, many of the people marching are pro-statehood. Remember ... not all statehooders belong to the PNP and these days I'd say that as many as half of self identified statehooders do not belong to any party.

Rossello has done serious damage to the statehood movement but we'll get there one day.
that's an interesting point and although vila was arguably the one to drive the island off a cliff, a lot has happened recently. Keleher's fraud reportedly did not benefit her which indicates that corruption is systemic, it is expected and likely encouraged at all levels of government. the chats confirm this, it removes all doubts that the island's government is systemically corrupt. for those stateside interpretation will be managed by the press but I would hope people are not going to think ill of the island for protesting corruption and demanding change..of course, how those protests unfold will determine what people think. in the long run it is less clear whether it will prove to be an impetus for change. 15 years after the orange revolution Ukraine is still struggling with endemic corruption and Russian influence. Greece, often compared to Puerto Rico, is still struggling under the weight of corruption and excessive debt and high taxes. It is not as though rosello's government was bereft of good ideas but it did not seem well administered. to see these people plundering a broken island where people are struggling and fighting their own government to run businesses is understandably the last straw. I'd add there is now a power vacuum. it is not a foregone conclusion that the next phase will be better or that the next leader will be good.
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Old 07-23-2019, 01:43 PM
 
529 posts, read 1,090,502 times
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Doña Miriam, a rabid statehooder, who now lives in Florida after having lost all hope of statehood for Puerto Rico just pointed out, “ Hasn't anyone noticed there was not one American flag in these massive demonstrations?

It was a sea of Puerto Rican flags despite that the march was sold as open to all, statehooders , Commonwealth supporters and pro independence folks.

Have the Rosselló chats opened up a Pandora’s box which had been closed tight for a generation?
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Old 07-23-2019, 01:56 PM
 
Location: On a Long Island in NY
7,800 posts, read 10,137,060 times
Reputation: 7366
Quote:
Originally Posted by clip314 View Post
Doña Miriam, a rabid statehooder, who now lives in Florida after having lost all hope of statehood for Puerto Rico just pointed out, “ Hasn't anyone noticed there was not one American flag in these massive demonstrations?

It was a sea of Puerto Rican flags despite that the march was sold as open to all, statehooders , Commonwealth supporters and pro independence folks.

Have the Rosselló chats opened up a Pandora’s box which had been closed tight for a generation?
Let's hold a referendum and find out!!!!!! SIN MIEDO!
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Old 07-23-2019, 03:57 PM
 
529 posts, read 1,090,502 times
Reputation: 493
Why not hold a referendum in congress. After all these guys are the ones who’ll decide statehood, not Puerto Rican’s. Once congress gives the green light, then, only then , can Puerto Rican’s vote.

HOWEVER, the SCOTUS insular cases have to be reviewed or disposed of first.
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