Welcome to City-Data.com Forum!
U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > U.S. Territories
 [Register]
U.S. Territories Puerto Rico, Guam, U.S. Virgin Islands, etc.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 07-26-2019, 07:56 PM
 
1,960 posts, read 4,677,805 times
Reputation: 5416

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by chacho_keva View Post
I don't! As a realist, I am not in favor of Puerto Rico being the 51st State. State aspirations demands more than a tourist destination at the large table of the USA. Other than tourism, what else does the land of my birth bring to the table?
Yeah tell that to Hawaii. If it wasn't for the geopolitical significance with China, they'd be up the creek on that argument too. The level of military industrial money that literally floats that archipelago is so unashamed it's not even funny. So gimme a break on that BS fiscal litmus test for enfranchising Citizens.

As a member of the US military, I give up certain liberties (expressing myself under the anonymity of this board, and not in a public capacity, is indeed one of them) in order to fight for what I consider worth dying for. Disenfranchising my family on the basis of a zip code and ethnicity is not a reason this Country gets to enjoy the sheer benefit of my highly-specialized and technical indentured servitude. The colonialism we incur on our OWN people is hypocrisy of the tallest order. The co-opted narrative of Puerto Rican "nationhood" is a surgically crafted propaganda refined over 75 years by the aristocrats who sold us out in the first place when the Spaniards finally cut bait. I cannot stand behind that. The separatist movement in Puerto Rico is a statistical joke. I know we live in a post-fact world now apparently, but I still conduct my life in accordance with the observance of facts and critical reasoning.

What you're really describing, is that it's certainly politically expedient to disenfranchise 3 million Americans. You're making the equivalent argument of "pull the ladder up" because you believe it to be inconvenient to those already on the life boat back in the Continent. I mean this with all due respect, but that's a cowardly argument. It certainly isn't an argument laden with credibility when we turn around and wax poetic about some nonsense "democracy"-peddling abroad whilst staring at Monumental Roman Architecture buildings in the Virginia/Maryland state line rendered that way architecturally to elicit that level of cathartic idealism in the first place. Maybe it's the American Military ethos in my life, but we don't leave our men behind in the US. We're not the Soviet Army/Navy after all.

So wrt to the full enfranchisement of US citizens in Puerto Rico: "Do as I say not as I do?" No thanks. I prefer "Good for the Goose, Good for the Gander".

What we need to do is smoke out these aristocrats. Maybe the professional-umbrage crowd we saw on display on the streets of San Juan can pick up a history book for once and figure out who is really behind their disenfranchisement. They keep looking at La Fortaleza and El Capitolio for the answer, and they keep coming up short. It's in the gated enclaves in the hills of Guaynabo and Ponce, and the marinas of Fajardo and Humacao, boarding their turbine powered escape pods in the corporate ramps of Isla Grande and Luis Muñoz Marín Airports. That's where they'll find the enemy within. But that's too nuanced and complicated. And nuanced is hard. Jingoism over a manufactured folkloric false dichotomy narrative is easy to digest and rally behind. As I suggested in my prior post, beware the man standing next to you in a mob. You might not really know what he's protesting.

I don't even consider the PNP an honest broker in the fight for statehood to be completely honest. I think they're the Democratic party equivalent of mainland US politics, in the island: AKA weak-spined "Designated Losers" by the an aristocracy that has the thumbs on both sides of the scale, meant to shore up the supporters of the cause and scuttle them from within while giving the "effort" plausible deniability under a blue banner. The governor's ousting from the perspective of the aristocrats is a perfect blow to the cause based on the unnuanced color-coded association people make via the bought and paid for parties, the PNP in this specific case.

The PPD otoh, has an easier and more transparent mandate from the Aristocrats' perspective. Their role is to culturally continue to peddle the puerto rican "nationhood" canard. They co-opt fringe separatist narratives in order bolster anti-American sentiment which keeps statehood at bay from the red side, while doing a twofer and also keeping a stranglehold on the true separatists in the statistically insignificant green side (Carmen Yulín, and the sheer non-support for governorship she has from PPD leadership is a perfect example of this nuanced political chess move of co-opting, that illustrates my strategic point).

Both hands under the skirt, while people wail about personal speech bigotry everybody has been guilty of at some point in their private day to day. Suckers. All the while maintaining the real crown gem intact: the islands' foreign tax categorization in the IRS code of the United States of America. The disenfranchisement of 3 million low-median wage US citizens? Meh, we've killed more Native Americans in the last 150 years, what's another 3 million disposables to the Great Roman buildings Empire...

So I revert to the imperfect but always aspirational former President John Fitzgerald Kennedy:

"...We choose to go to the Moon in this decade and do the other things, not because they are easy, but because they are hard; because that goal will serve to organize and measure the best of our energies and skills, because that challenge is one that we are willing to accept, one we are unwilling to postpone, and one we intend to win, and the others, too."

We all have a line in the sand. It would be great if we could all stand on the same side, alas we are not ice cream (aka we can't please everyone). In the end, one has to stand for something in this life. A man with no red lines is man destined to perennial servitude. And that goes for everyone, separatists included, lest I be declared a hypocrite for denying them agency in choosing to renounce allegiance to the US citizenship. But I have more respect for a declared Puerto Rican separatist than these upper class cloak and dagger types. The French had it right, the Second Estate can only get away with telling the Third to flog themselves for so long. I digress.

So, As I said earlier #NowWhat.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 07-26-2019, 09:51 PM
 
3,568 posts, read 4,424,479 times
Reputation: 6280
Quote:
Originally Posted by jbgusa View Post
How much aid and charity money was spent? How much rebuilding was there? The burden of proof is on the handlers of the funds, not me.
The burden of proof has always resided upon the accuser, not the accused. In the US Court of Law, the accused is presumed innocent until otherwise proven guilty.

Oh wait! This is the Trump administration. Are we now guilty until otherwise proven innocent?


Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-27-2019, 10:15 AM
 
3,001 posts, read 1,187,421 times
Reputation: 2746
Quote:
Originally Posted by aax View Post
Who denizens? Celebrities like the Ricky Martin? Please be clear.
Isn't Ricky Martin now a citizen of spain for a few years now??
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-27-2019, 11:30 AM
mym
 
706 posts, read 1,175,638 times
Reputation: 860
Quote:
Originally Posted by hindsight2020 View Post
So, As I said earlier #NowWhat.
how about #Who'sNext
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-27-2019, 12:23 PM
 
1,960 posts, read 4,677,805 times
Reputation: 5416
Quote:
Originally Posted by mym View Post
how about #Who'sNext
Indeed. #NewBossOldBoss #Red#Blue#Green #CorruptionIsMonochrome #TheRichFTW #Act20#Act22
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-27-2019, 03:05 PM
 
Location: Somewhere on the Moon.
10,365 posts, read 15,242,880 times
Reputation: 10648
Quote:
Originally Posted by RICANRICAN View Post
Isn't Ricky Martin now a citizen of spain for a few years now??
I heard that he has dual nationality USA/Spain.

I also heard most PRs are US citizens from birth.

I also heard Ricky Martin was back in San Juan to form part of the protesters (peaceful ones) to knock down the other Ricky Rosselló.

Last I heard is that Ricky Martin was born and grew up in San Juan.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-29-2019, 01:11 PM
 
Location: New York Area
35,441 posts, read 17,347,664 times
Reputation: 30597
Quote:
Originally Posted by chacho_keva View Post
The burden of proof has always resided upon the accuser, not the accused. In the US Court of Law, the accused is presumed innocent until otherwise proven guilty.

Oh wait! This is the Trump administration. Are we now guilty until otherwise proven innocent?


Actually, in a court of law there are "affirmative defenses" or ones that must be proven by the defending party. Payment is one, fraud is another, since the Plaintiff does not have to affirmatively prove either honesty, or nonpayment. When the proof is peculiarly in the possession of one party, that party bears the burden of production and ultimately proof. In PR the government bears the burden of showing how the money is spent.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-29-2019, 01:50 PM
 
Location: Brooklyn, New York
5,477 posts, read 5,751,690 times
Reputation: 6120
Whether PR becomes a US state or not wouldn't matter in the long run. Ultimately, the actual residents of the island are responsible for how the day to day operations of the island are run and what kind of local government they have.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-30-2019, 01:45 PM
 
Location: Texas
6 posts, read 8,458 times
Reputation: 30
The FBI and CIA are just as bad.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-27-2019, 10:52 AM
 
Location: Philly
10,227 posts, read 16,881,587 times
Reputation: 2973
Quote:
37 municipalities have lost nearly $ 64 million in nine years in projects that were either half done or left on paper, with no major consequences for mayors, some of whom remain in office...For example, since 2002, Naranjito spent almost $ 21 million on an unfinished building while 57 percent of children and teenagers were living in poverty between 2013 and 2017...Without budgetary planning, the municipality spent money to build a coliseum on unstable land. After years of abandonment, the municipality is now seeking to finish it with patches, using federal relief funds in a town almost destroyed by Hurricane María. The municipality claims the building will now become a shelter. Last October, there were still more than one hundred families living under blue tarps in Naranjito...In Gurabo, the municipal government had $ 1.1 million to buy a 65-feet high bronze statue. The stored pieces of the statue called the Christ of the Mountain are now waiting for a buyer, however the municipality seems inclined to keep it without any studies to support its benefit...And that’s not the only municipal luxury in Gurabo. Between 2000 and 2015, the local government invested $ 2.3 million in other bronze pieces, including a 16-foot high water fountain. Its former mayor, Víctor Ortiz faces federal charges of bribery and extortion from a contractor. In contrast, a third of the children in Gurabo live in poverty, and nearly a quarter of young people between 16 and 19 neither study nor work.
https://www.elnuevodia.com/english/e...ssion-2537380/
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > U.S. Territories

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2024, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Contact Us - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37 - Top