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Old 10-29-2019, 06:46 AM
 
Location: Philly
10,227 posts, read 16,867,504 times
Reputation: 2973

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nice to see some coverage of what is the most pernicious problem on the island. bureaucracy feeds corruption, stifles prosperity, and ties a weight around the island's neck.
Quote:
...He pooled his savings with those of his parents and rented a place in San Sebastián that had already housed a business like the one he was interested in opening. That way, he thought, it would be easier to get the permits needed to operate his small business...His strategy, however, resulted in eight months of bureaucratic juggling, dubious offers and "unnecessary" expenses that nearly wrecked the business venture.


"We ended up spending about $6,000 on permits alone and lost many months because we couldn't open until everything was done,"... the government prohibited him from using gas for the restaurant's stoves and ovens...a man showed up offering "a solution to the kitchen problem" ..."Then, I learned that if you don't have a godfather here, things don't move forward...On average, registering a real estate transaction in Puerto Rico takes just over six months. Singapore does the same in five days. ..an entrepreneur has to pay contributions in 16 instances during a regular year, he or she invests about 218 hours in the process and pays rates that represent 63.4 percent of the company's profits. In contrast and according to the World Bank, in New Zealand, a company only has to make seven payments, invest 140 hours and pay fees equivalent to 35 percent of its profits...A construction permit in Puerto Rico requires 22 processes and takes about 165 days. Hong Kong, on the other hand, requires eight processes that take 69 days...According to estimates based on the Census Bureau community survey, by 2017 Puerto Rico had 6,473 public employees per 100,000 inhabitants, while in the U.S....it is 6.442 per 100,000.
https://www.elnuevodia.com/english/e...rowth-2525937/
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Old 10-29-2019, 12:37 PM
 
Location: New Orleans
1,554 posts, read 3,047,363 times
Reputation: 1960
My take on it? It´s a cultural norm that the Spanish gifted to the island some 122 years ago that won´t seem to go away. It´s no better in most of the rest of Latin America.

Given what happened with "la gringa" Julia and the Dept of Education, I somehow doubt that the people would be open to a Mainland consulting firm coming over and seeing what could be done about making some things more efficient.
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Old 10-29-2019, 07:56 PM
 
Location: Philly
10,227 posts, read 16,867,504 times
Reputation: 2973
Quote:
Originally Posted by aab7855 View Post
My take on it? It´s a cultural norm that the Spanish gifted to the island some 122 years ago that won´t seem to go away. It´s no better in most of the rest of Latin America.

Given what happened with "la gringa" Julia and the Dept of Education, I somehow doubt that the people would be open to a Mainland consulting firm coming over and seeing what could be done about making some things more efficient.
Consulting firms are useful for absorbing blame mostly. People on the island know what needs to be done, none so far have had the courage to do it. Those are some eye popping numbers though. Its true, bureaucracy,corruption, and poverty are norms for many countries (especially latin america but it isnt unique to it)
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Old 10-30-2019, 07:39 PM
 
Location: On a Long Island in NY
7,800 posts, read 10,131,949 times
Reputation: 7366
Quote:
Originally Posted by aab7855 View Post
My take on it? It´s a cultural norm that the Spanish gifted to the island some 122 years ago that won´t seem to go away. It´s no better in most of the rest of Latin America.

Given what happened with "la gringa" Julia and the Dept of Education, I somehow doubt that the people would be open to a Mainland consulting firm coming over and seeing what could be done about making some things more efficient.
Puerto Ricans seem content with mediocrity unfortunately ... and it's a darn shame because the inane fear of even the slightest of change to the established norm is holding the island back in terms of economic development, the ease of doing business, etc.
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Old 11-13-2019, 01:29 PM
 
Location: Philly
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https://caribbeanbusiness.com/puerto...on-regressive/
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Old 11-14-2019, 04:12 PM
 
4,038 posts, read 1,904,278 times
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Well...cultures differ. Corruption and bureaucracy exist everywhere, so it’s really a matter of degree – I don’t have an easy answer for that (and no one else does either).
But – cultures differ.

Your definition of “success” differs from that of a culture that's not yours. That’s obvious, of course, everybody knows that. But when you see it in action, there’s a strong urge to “fix it” somehow. You can’t. You have to let it go.

That’s why it’s a bit insulting to see “Puerto Ricans seem content with mediocrity” and that they are being held back from economic development. While some Puerto Ricans may agree with that, enough do not that the situation remains.

Your definition of success seems related to economics. Not everyone’s “success” is about money.

The strength of family and culture is a strong bond – Does this mean living with sporadic electricity and awful traffic and little punctuality? Maybe it does. So? These things aren’t important to everyone.

I learned long ago to quit looking at my watch. No one will rush your Big Mac, or get in the slow lane. No one will hurry back with your paperwork. Your drinks aren’t coming any time soon either. Does this mean they’re satisfied with mediocrity? No. It means your definition of success is not everyone’s.

Having said that – there’s no question basic infrastructure would improve with less corruption and paper work. But what would the improvement be exactly? Fewer pot holes? Consistent traffic laws? Prompt cable TV service? These things just aren’t that important, in the big scheme of things, not compared to God, culture and family. “Success” in those areas means money doesn’t matter. Sure, in cases of extreme starvation and no shelter – but that’s not what we’re talking about here. We’re talking about trading “mainland” culture for “island” culture and that just ain’t happening, not this generation or the next.

And I’m just a tourist!
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Old 11-14-2019, 08:19 PM
 
Location: Caribou, Me.
6,928 posts, read 5,932,038 times
Reputation: 5251
Quote:
Originally Posted by roodd279 View Post
Well...cultures differ. Corruption and bureaucracy exist everywhere, so it’s really a matter of degree – I don’t have an easy answer for that (and no one else does either).
But – cultures differ.

Your definition of “success” differs from that of a culture that's not yours. That’s obvious, of course, everybody knows that. But when you see it in action, there’s a strong urge to “fix it” somehow. You can’t. You have to let it go.

That’s why it’s a bit insulting to see “Puerto Ricans seem content with mediocrity” and that they are being held back from economic development. While some Puerto Ricans may agree with that, enough do not that the situation remains.

Your definition of success seems related to economics. Not everyone’s “success” is about money.

The strength of family and culture is a strong bond – Does this mean living with sporadic electricity and awful traffic and little punctuality? Maybe it does. So? These things aren’t important to everyone.

I learned long ago to quit looking at my watch. No one will rush your Big Mac, or get in the slow lane. No one will hurry back with your paperwork. Your drinks aren’t coming any time soon either. Does this mean they’re satisfied with mediocrity? No. It means your definition of success is not everyone’s.

Having said that – there’s no question basic infrastructure would improve with less corruption and paper work. But what would the improvement be exactly? Fewer pot holes? Consistent traffic laws? Prompt cable TV service? These things just aren’t that important, in the big scheme of things, not compared to God, culture and family. “Success” in those areas means money doesn’t matter. Sure, in cases of extreme starvation and no shelter – but that’s not what we’re talking about here. We’re talking about trading “mainland” culture for “island” culture and that just ain’t happening, not this generation or the next.

And I’m just a tourist!
Just have to point out that “God” and corruption do not go together. At all.
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Old 11-15-2019, 07:39 AM
 
Location: Philly
10,227 posts, read 16,867,504 times
Reputation: 2973
Quote:
Originally Posted by roodd279 View Post
Well...cultures differ. Corruption and bureaucracy exist everywhere, so it’s really a matter of degree – I don’t have an easy answer for that (and no one else does either).
But – cultures differ.

Your definition of “success” differs from that of a culture that's not yours. That’s obvious, of course, everybody knows that. But when you see it in action, there’s a strong urge to “fix it” somehow. You can’t. You have to let it go.

That’s why it’s a bit insulting to see “Puerto Ricans seem content with mediocrity” and that they are being held back from economic development. While some Puerto Ricans may agree with that, enough do not that the situation remains.

Your definition of success seems related to economics. Not everyone’s “success” is about money.

The strength of family and culture is a strong bond – Does this mean living with sporadic electricity and awful traffic and little punctuality? Maybe it does. So? These things aren’t important to everyone.

I learned long ago to quit looking at my watch. No one will rush your Big Mac, or get in the slow lane. No one will hurry back with your paperwork. Your drinks aren’t coming any time soon either. Does this mean they’re satisfied with mediocrity? No. It means your definition of success is not everyone’s.

Having said that – there’s no question basic infrastructure would improve with less corruption and paper work. But what would the improvement be exactly? Fewer pot holes? Consistent traffic laws? Prompt cable TV service? These things just aren’t that important, in the big scheme of things, not compared to God, culture and family. “Success” in those areas means money doesn’t matter. Sure, in cases of extreme starvation and no shelter – but that’s not what we’re talking about here. We’re talking about trading “mainland” culture for “island” culture and that just ain’t happening, not this generation or the next.

And I’m just a tourist!
the fact that islanders are leaving pretty consistently says that they do value stable power and good jobs and less theft. not being corrupt isn't "mainland" culture.
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Old 11-15-2019, 08:11 AM
 
4,038 posts, read 1,904,278 times
Reputation: 8701
Being anti-corruption is a separate topic from "content with mediocrity."



When they get wherever they're going (NY, Miami, wherever...) will they suddenly perceive the right-hand lane as the "slow" lane? Doubtful. That's the "culture" I'm talking about.



You cause thought for a good discussion though - I suppose the tolerance for corruption - and even the willingness of the participants - can be traced to culture.


So the folks fleeing - which although is a bunch - is still, say, only ~15% of the population (~500K/4M) - which means 85% are satisfied with their life as-is.
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Old 11-15-2019, 11:19 AM
 
Location: Philly
10,227 posts, read 16,867,504 times
Reputation: 2973
Quote:
Originally Posted by roodd279 View Post
Being anti-corruption is a separate topic from "content with mediocrity."



When they get wherever they're going (NY, Miami, wherever...) will they suddenly perceive the right-hand lane as the "slow" lane? Doubtful. That's the "culture" I'm talking about.



You cause thought for a good discussion though - I suppose the tolerance for corruption - and even the willingness of the participants - can be traced to culture.


So the folks fleeing - which although is a bunch - is still, say, only ~15% of the population (~500K/4M) - which means 85% are satisfied with their life as-is.
technically it only means 85% didn't leave whether that be because they are satisfied, feel they have no choices/transferrable skills, or have family ties that outweight dissatisfaction with the island is anyboady's guess.
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