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View Poll Results: Should Puerto Rico become a state or an independent nation?
State 58 42.34%
Independent nation 66 48.18%
Other (please specify in your post) 13 9.49%
Voters: 137. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 10-01-2020, 07:21 PM
 
791 posts, read 175,881 times
Reputation: 523

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Quote:
Originally Posted by FasterThanTheSpeed View Post
tl;dr
next time I can put pictures for you instead of words. If you going to inject yourself and give your opinion about a place you have never live and don't speak their language and refuse to read their history because words hurt your eyes then why bother? yeah, pride, that's it. The bumper sticker for the independentistas.
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Old 10-01-2020, 08:14 PM
 
3,253 posts, read 3,659,830 times
Reputation: 4946
Quote:
Originally Posted by SanJuanStar View Post
All countries and people have pride. Pride shouldn't be the litmus test to admit a state. It's more about identity and I understand your opinion but it's a lot more complicated than that. I lived there and I know very well the people and history. I speak their language and Puerto Rican Spanish is a lot different than the Spanish here. Let me explain and if anybody with knowledge wants to jump in and debate it or challenge me, I'm all for public civic debate. History and acts have consequences, lets go back.

in 1917, the U.S. declared all Puerto Ricans in the island U.S. Citizens (Naturtal Born) because it was being pushed by political leaders in the island and they convinced Congress not to let the island go. Only less than 3% of the population rejected U.S. Citizenship. Plus, in the eye of the U.S. in 1917, they wanted territories to expand military power in the region like the Caribbean and South America and control the sea and the routes. If the U.S. was going to continue owning Puerto Rico under full jurisdiction of the federal government they had to make the people there U.S. Citizens to give them rights and responsibilities. You can't own the land of people and force them to follow your laws by denying them citizenship so they could have rights and responsibilities and protection under the same system they have to follow. This is American Civics and a recipe of not having a bloody war in the streets.

now from 1917 to 1952, Puerto Rican politics took a turn and world events added to it. Instead of pushing for statehood and preparing Puerto Rico to petition for state since they already had U.S. Citizenship and was under full American jurisdiction and make mandatory American Civics for the public schools for the masses understand the American system and fully accept it, the political forces anti-statehood in Puerto Rico took full control of the whole island's government. It was a 1 sided party in power for decades. PPD is the party with Luis Munoz Marin (look it up) when you have a 1 party government in full control of all branches and municipios (towns) in the island and the majority don't have televisions, there is no opposition and they can rule as they like and push whatever propaganda they want to the public, they control everything including the local newspapers and local tv. The first thing they did is to make Spanish the official language in the schools and government and replaced the American teachers that came from the U.S. to teach classes in English with native teachers that most only spoke Spanish. Refused to teach American Civics in the public schools and keep their own Olympics. That same government convinced Congress to approve the current Commonwealth Status that is today to keep their identity and local sovereignty while keeping U.S. Citizenship and U.S. economic protection. The Puerto Rican 1 party government sold it as "the best of both worlds" and convinced the electorate to vote for it in 1952 Commonwealth referendum. 82% approved it while 18% rejected it. That's 4 out of 5 Puerto Ricans voted for the Commonwealth status ( look it up) From the view of the U.S., it was after WW II and the Cold War was started. They didn't want to lose Puerto Rico to communism or fight with the Puerto Rican government who were anti-statehood and lose the region and lose control of the military bases that where in an excellent strategic point to control the routes and seas to South and Central America. Under this deal, the U.S. kept full control and jurisdiction of the whole island. So they allowed Commonwealth for Puerto Rico in 1952. It was a win-win for both sides at the time. Elections have consequences.


Fast forward to 1967. The U.S. Supreme Court historic landmark decision declared that Congress couldn't pass laws that took away involuntary the U.S. Citizenship of any person. It doesn't matter if they live in another country and voted in foreign elections. The case is Afroyim v. Rusk, 387 U.S. 253 (1967) (look it up) that threw a big wrench into the debate of independence for P.R. because Congress couldn't take U.S. Citizenship away involuntary and over 95% of Puerto Ricans refuses to surrender it and you can't have an independent country where the people are citizens of another country and are under the jurisdiction of another country. The independence people know this , most are educated but ignore it. I always call them fools for ignoring facts and holding on to a dead poetic dream that is not possible.

That's why I tell you things are not that simple. Pushing for a half baked jibaro statehood is another mistake. That's why I keep saying to pause the emotions over common sense and takeout the cheap politics from the U.S. and the island and debate this with real alternatives and educate the public. The last thing the U.S. and P.R. needs for this to explode and have a civil war in the island with Ricans against Ricans in the streets because they pushed an half baked jibaro statehood on the island that will change their identity forever and they could never get out.

By the way, I lived in a city in Puerto Rico that is governed by the statehood party. Most of them are not really for statehood, most can't speak or write English (Which I found funny and I teased them about it in good nature) they vote for the statehood party because the statehood party are a lot better than the Commonwealth party of getting more federal funds from Congress to the island (that's another story) I can write a book about this. Every 4th of July, I put the American Flag in the front of my house. I'm a veteran, my dad was a veteran,my grandpa (all dead) ,my cousins, my uncles . It's to pay tribute. I was the only one in blocks with the American flag in front of my house. Some didn't care and others look at the flag and my house like they saw Big Foot. A few teased me and called me "vende patria" "Pitiyanki" "Gringo" and since I was taught to answer back, not be timid in my own home I pissed them more by putting a bigger American flag each year in the front porch with a spot light just to mess with them. I called them in return "cuponeros" and "welfare cows". They have a problem with the American flag in my lawn for the 4th of July but they don't have a problem cashing the welfare checks and all their furniture, fridges and stoves in their houses paid by the U.S. government and the Pell Grants they use to go to college. I was the lone wolf in that crowd. It never got violent for me but it could easily have. They all knew my whole family are military and have guns so they knew better to attack my house. I tell you this to show you their mentality (large number of them). They want the American protection but they want to keep their own identity. I learned that living with them for years. They don't want statehood and reject independence. They want to keep Spanish as their main language, they want to keep their Olympics and Miss Universe. Most of them only fly 1 flag in everybody's faces and is not the American. I went to their public schools and they refuse to teach American Civics as mandatory. I nodded my head at first but I learned to accept and respect their views and laugh at it once in a while. They are unique, what can you do?
OMG! Bro, please!

Remember the other day when you ragged me about posting something at 0415, to which I responded that I rise early to go to work on time?

Do you seriously believe someone like me is going to make time to read this diatribe before, during, or after our workday?

Bro, do yourself a favor . . . keep it short, sweet, and simple. Make your point within one or two paragraphs.
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Old 10-01-2020, 09:55 PM
 
791 posts, read 175,881 times
Reputation: 523
Quote:
Originally Posted by chacho_keva View Post
OMG! Bro, please!

Remember the other day when you ragged me about posting something at 0415, to which I responded that I rise early to go to work on time?

Do you seriously believe someone like me is going to make time to read this diatribe before, during, or after our workday?

Bro, do yourself a favor . . . keep it short, sweet, and simple. Make your point within one or two paragraphs.

If you say so. You went from dude to bro and you are a 60's year old man? LMAO! I will put pictures for you next time instead of words, moderator. The only diatribe you read is yours. Like they say in Puerto Rico, "se te ve la costura, lambon"

next time I will post single sentences that will fit in a bumper sticker for you.
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Old 04-14-2021, 03:46 PM
 
521 posts, read 956,312 times
Reputation: 486
It is silly to think that Puerto Ricans will decide if Puerto Rico will become a state or not. Yes, Puerto Rican’s will eventually have a choice HOWEVER, it will first depend if Congressional INTERESTS coincide with Statehood. If not, then things will remain the same , or until congress decides something has to be done.

REMEMBER, AMERICAN INTERESTS GO FIRST.

However there is a strange thing reading all these posts. Nobody here figures out what are “ American interests “ in granting statehood to Puerto Rico.
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Old 04-14-2021, 05:42 PM
 
1,095 posts, read 448,030 times
Reputation: 912
Quote:
Originally Posted by clip314 View Post
It is silly to think that Puerto Ricans will decide if Puerto Rico will become a state or not. Yes, Puerto Rican’s will eventually have a choice HOWEVER, it will first depend if Congressional INTERESTS coincide with Statehood. If not, then things will remain the same , or until congress decides something has to be done.

REMEMBER, AMERICAN INTERESTS GO FIRST.

However there is a strange thing reading all these posts. Nobody here figures out what are “ American interests “ in granting statehood to Puerto Rico.
Votes for the party comrade!
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Old 04-14-2021, 06:23 PM
 
8,325 posts, read 6,874,774 times
Reputation: 4414
What the statehood folks in PR need to explain is how is the local (state) gov't going to raise revenues to offset that lost when income tax is redirected away from them to the US Treasury. PR is not going to get back from the Feds 100% of the taxes paid to the US Treasury. Will residents of PR be willing to pay local taxes, additional to the Federal, or pay higher sales tax?

I suspect that most of those who want statehood think that the USA is a cow teat that that can suck for milk. They will have battle the other 50 states for their cut, and conduct business in English when they do so. A Federal office in San Juan will be just like one in Miami.

So how will statehood look when the IRS gets taxes paid by residents of PR who then only get slightly more from the Feds that they currently do? How will statehood look when being a fully integrated part of an English speaking nation means that English becomes more important than it currently is?
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Old 04-14-2021, 09:44 PM
 
791 posts, read 175,881 times
Reputation: 523
wrong question and bad history. No debate on taxes were ever discussed in admitting the 37 territories that are states today, none. Not even the 13 colonies after the war, most were broke.


Hawaii was a poor territory on it's own. There so much pineapples and coconuts that it can produce. What helped Hawaii's economy was the U.S. changing the Pacific Fleet from San Diego to Hawaii and the massive military build up and government contracts during the war. The U.S. already owned Hawaii as a territory, so they didn't need to make it state to be there or build up the military. You don't buy the cow when the milk and barn are free.


New Mexico was a very poor territory by decades of neglect by Mexico that it was full of poor uneducated Natives and citizens from old Mexico. I never read the debates in congress about income taxes.


The list is long. The U.S. made poor territories into states for slavery. It has nothing to do what each brought to the nation in income tax since it was never a debate. I'm still waiting to hear what the Mormons in Utah brought to the nation apart from temples and multiple wives when then U.S. already owned the territory of Utah from 1850.


If We base accepting states on your argument on paying taxes, then the U.S. would have more territories than states.
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Old 04-15-2021, 06:04 PM
 
1,095 posts, read 448,030 times
Reputation: 912
You realize that the DNC just wants your votes. They don't really care about PR....
They just need to convince more people how they are victims and that your vote will help them bring you a better life.

However if they do that they are out of business!
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Old 04-15-2021, 08:20 PM
 
791 posts, read 175,881 times
Reputation: 523
it's funny, my family from my father's side were all Democrats old school. Truman and JFK but today's Democrat party have gone off the rails. They want to stack up the Supreme Court (make it a political branch) , allow massive cheap labor, don't want I.D. to vote and wants to make D.C. and Puerto Rico in 2 blues states by 1 party push to divide further this country for endless power and to make this country into a 1 party rule country. Is not enough they have the W.H. and Congress. They want to control the U.S. Supreme Court by stacking it.



You heard them say for 4 years that Trump was a danger to our democracy but it's them. If you love your country, any country, you wouldn't allow massive cheap labor and would demand I.D. to vote.


I grew in P.R. and the Puerto Rican government demanded a government I.D. (Tarjeta Electoral) to vote and the polls closed at 3 pm at the schools. We always had a high voter turnout and nobody ever said this was racist or voter oppression. Georgia demands I.D to vote, closes the polls at 7 PM but if you are still in the line you get to vote, makes it easy to vote by mail with I.D. They extended the days to vote even on Sundays on all precincts and expanded voter machines for the long lines and this President calls it Jim Crow on steroids? This is the grandfather of mass incarceration of black people and breaking up black families calling decent voting laws Jim Crow on steroids to further divide this nation. You can't make this thing up.


For decades the Democrat Party supported the Commonwealth status in Puerto Rico since JFK (remain a territory) they were part of the problem by making the island really dependent on federal aid but now they care so much about P.R. that they will push for statehood by 1 side, dividing this nation and P.R. to grab power. This doesn't help the country or Puerto Rico. It creates a civil war.
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Old 04-16-2021, 06:31 AM
mym
 
646 posts, read 928,062 times
Reputation: 767
doesnt matter, as long as there are two parties there will need to be two states added at the same time so one or the other party doesnt cry. the stupidity of both parties is why PR should govern itself. who can do worse than these clowns they have in charge here? lets get our own clowns dammit.

i always seem to recall that election day is a holiday in PR
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