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View Poll Results: Should Puerto Rico become a state or an independent nation?
State 53 42.06%
Independent nation 63 50.00%
Other (please specify in your post) 10 7.94%
Voters: 126. You may not vote on this poll

 
 
Old 03-23-2020, 12:24 PM
Status: "177th Anniversary of Freedom!" (set 2 days ago)
 
6,723 posts, read 9,450,580 times
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Havana was more developed than Madrid. I have a book by Samuel Hazard describing what he saw and experienced during his visit to Cuba in the 1860's and he's already talking of Paso del Prado and such outside the colonial walls of Old Havana and of the Hotel Inglés (which is still there) and a plaza with a giant statue of Queen Isabella in front (still there though the statue -not the pedestal which is the same- of Queen Isabella has been changed for José Martí). The Teatro Tacón was exactly in the spot of the current Teatro Nacional and it was already the largest theater in America, not just Spanish America. The amount of wealth and development that was achieved by then is incredible. Independence from Spain was still three, almost four decades away. The opportunities in Cuba were greater than on mainland Spain itself, that the island became a principal destination for Spaniards migrating to The Americas. The USA simply continued the bonanza when they took over and Fidel Castro put an end to all of that.

To talk of La Habana outside of Cuba but still in the Spanish World was like talking of the greatest thing since slice bread. It was La Habana that was the center of the world, not like today where NYC/Miami takes that place in many countries in Latin America.

Last edited by AntonioR; 03-23-2020 at 12:55 PM..
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Old 03-23-2020, 12:40 PM
Status: "177th Anniversary of Freedom!" (set 2 days ago)
 
6,723 posts, read 9,450,580 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by caribny View Post
Because of the US Federal 936 program which has since ended. With that gone PR has been sliding downhill and 20% of the population has fled.

Prior to these federally backed tax incentives PR was a poor island with massive poverty.
Just look at the Canary Islands. That's Puerto Rico if it would had continue to be a Spanish province today. Unlike in the 1700's (when many Canarians were literally starving to death and mass emigration to Cuba, Santo Domingo, Puerto Rico, Veracruz coastal area of Mexico, etc was encouraged by the Crown as a solution to this problem), today the Canary Islands is anything but suffering from hunger or substandard living conditions. If anything, there's now a greater presence of Latin Americans in the cities of the Canaries than there are Canarians living in Latin America.

Modern day San Juan would had most likely been similar to Las Palmas de Gran Canaria.


Most likely Mayagüez or Ponce today would be like Santa Cruz de Tenerife.


In all likelihood, the main airport in San Juan would had been the hub of Iberia in America. Ironically (because I randomly pick this video), on one side of this plane are the flags of many Spanish American countries, including Puerto Rico's. lol They are seen better after 1:08.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RfSYEg1dupM

The point is that by this time most Puerto Ricans would be guaranteed a comfortable lifestyle regardless if they would had stay with Spain or went with the USA.

Last edited by AntonioR; 03-23-2020 at 01:20 PM.. Reason: Added the printscreen of the plane to show the flags of Spanish American countries, including Puerto Rico's.
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Old 03-27-2020, 06:10 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WIHS2006 View Post
Roughly 90% of the population opposes independence.
So? What about the mainland American population?
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Old 03-27-2020, 06:13 PM
 
3,004 posts, read 1,301,021 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WIHS2006 View Post
So was Texas ... should we give it back to Mexico?
No, Texas was a victim of Mexican imperialism. And it belonged to Mexico for just 15 years.
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Old 03-27-2020, 06:14 PM
 
3,004 posts, read 1,301,021 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by masssachoicetts View Post
Ehh Puerto Rico being 99% Non White probably doesnt help its case for statehood. There definitely is some WHite Republican Bias there.
WTFFF

Puerto Rico is 80% white.
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Old 03-29-2020, 01:18 AM
 
8,283 posts, read 6,779,936 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pman View Post
that's true, they were able to attract a good deal of money from the US. of course, it also highlights that small islands are always in some ways dependent on their relationships with large countries (particularly those nearby). it would, for example, make much more sense for PR to be aligned with the US than nearby venezuela for obvious reasons even if it were independent. I've long thought that the Caribbean needs some kind of ASEAN agreement. of course, that's not the world in which we live at the moment.
Cuba had a thriving business class, many of whom also invested in Florida. By the late 50s the Cuban sugar industry was substantially in Cuban hands. It was the tourism sector that was largely US owned. Cuban also had a developed industrial base, much of it owned by Cubans as well.

CARICOM exists and I suspect that it is a much tighter arrangement than ASEAN. They have developed a coordinated approach to deal with Covid 19 and jointly procure medical supplies. Their CDC equivalent is regionally managed and based in Trinidad. They coordinate disaster relief when hurricanes hit, and engage in other forms of functional cooperation. So its more than just trade. The Spanish speaking Caribbean isnt included because they aren't compatible. Haiti and Suriname are included. The remainder are non sovereign entities so cannot fully participate.

The USA doesnt care 2 cents about the Caribbean, even Puerto Rico, so I dont know why some think that statehood would make a difference. Neither Americans nor Puerto Ricans consider Puerto Ricans to be anything other than non US people who carry US citizenship. Do you see Puerto Ricans cheering for US teams (including no Puerto Ricans) in international competitions? In that case I bet many will cheer the DR instead.
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Old 03-29-2020, 01:23 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Tritone View Post
WTFFF

Puerto Rico is 80% white.
The US census shows this because it imposes US definitions of racial identity on an entirely different culture. The goal being to identify people with African and Asian ancestry, with the rest being a "default white" population. The ridiculous thing is that a black Egyptian is coded as "white" because they are of Middle Eastern/North African origin.

I bet if they used descriptors that allow for people to identify using intermediate categories commonly used throughout the Spanish Caribbean you will not see 80% white.

Puerto Ricans in NY identify differently because they know that "white" within a US setting doesnt include them so most check "other". This being an accurate description of a people who are a diverse mix of Taino, Spanish (and other European) and African ancestry.


You will make people laugh at you if you insist that "80% of Puerto Ricans are white". Do you hate your Taino and African ancestry that much?
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Old 03-29-2020, 01:47 AM
 
8,283 posts, read 6,779,936 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tritone View Post
WTFFF

Puerto Rico is 80% white.
The US census shows this because it imposes US definitions of racial identity on an entirely different culture. The goal being to identify people with African and Asian ancestry, with the rest being a "default white" population. The ridiculous thing is that a black Egyptian is coded as "white" because they are of Middle Eastern/North African origin.

I bet if they used descriptors that allow for people to identify using intermediate categories commonly used throughout the Spanish Caribbean you will not see 80% white.

Puerto Ricans in NY identify differently because they know that "white" within a US setting doesnt include them so most check "other". This being an accurate description of a people who are a diverse mix of Taino, Spanish (and other European) and African ancestry.


You will make people laugh at you if you insist that "80% of Puerto Ricans are white". Do you hate your Taino and African ancestry that much?
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Old 03-29-2020, 01:53 AM
 
8,283 posts, read 6,779,936 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AntonioR View Post
Just look at the Canary Islands. That's Puerto Rico if it would had continue to be a Spanish province today.

]


[url]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RfSYEg1dupM[/urlThe point is that by this time most Puerto Ricans would be guaranteed a comfortable lifestyle regardless if they would had stay with Spain or went with the USA.
Spain under Franco was a poor country by European standards. What it is today is compliments of the Germany and other EU taxpayers who invested billions into Spain and Portugal when they joined. Prior to 936 PR used to be poorer than DR. Do you know that Puerto Ricans used to go over to the DR and also to the USVI to cut cane in the early 20th C?
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Old 03-29-2020, 03:17 PM
mym
 
632 posts, read 911,167 times
Reputation: 742
DO the Canary Islands have an Olympics team?
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