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View Poll Results: Should Puerto Rico become a state or an independent nation?
State 53 42.06%
Independent nation 63 50.00%
Other (please specify in your post) 10 7.94%
Voters: 126. You may not vote on this poll

 
 
Old 05-29-2020, 11:41 AM
 
1,703 posts, read 887,579 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Iam_rising View Post
I think Puerto Rico should be Independent. Independence would uphold its culture and nationhood. Does the majority of Louisiana still speak French, no very few due. What about the Hawaiians do they still practiced real Hawaiian culture or it's just for tourism, are they even still Native Hawaiians, nah it's mostly whites and Asian in Hawaii. This is what statehood does, forces said place to blend in and Americanise. People think USA is soooo regionally different, but theres little difference between the states as compared to places outside the country, theres little similarities between a US state and most countries. American culture is more uniform than people think. I be willing to bet, atleast half of all Puerto Ricans, if not more, are definitely not willing to give up their culture or ethnic identity.

This new younger generation of Puerto Ricans is different, more open minded and rebellious, kinda like USA in the 60s n 70s. They dont turn a blind eye like their parents and grandparents did, to what the USA has done and act like the USA is still the best place in earth. From modern events like Wall street vultures and federal govt neglect during hurricane Maria and other disasters. To more historical events like the Jones Act, Birth control testing in the 1940s, to the Vieques Bombing in the 1980s, and many other events (Google is free). This new generation that took out Rosello, is not with the bullsh!t.

Many Puerto Ricans (mainly the older ones) need to stop thinking that staying as with the US is the only way to survive. Stop relying on the US federal government. Puerto Rico is like a 30 year old mixed race man who had a rough childhood, who later got adopted as a child by a white family (or kidnapped if you really think about USA stole PR from Spain), and now wants to willingly stay with this white family that lowkey doesnt even like him.

Puerto Rico needs to get out that needy child mentality and stand on it's on 2 feet. When people talk about independence they compare to small poor countries, that's a negative mindset. Theres PLENTY of small countries doing GREAT, like Singapore or Luxemburg for example. Even in the Latin America and Caribbean region, you have Panama, Barbados, and the Bahamas are doing good. Even countries like Costa Rica, Argentina, Uruguay, Chile, Brazil, Mexico, Colombia, Dominican Republic, and most of the northern Lesser Antilles are on the come up and starting to improve heavily, at this point many of them are even doing better than Puerto Rico despite being apart of the US. Puerto Rico can base it's most of its economy on trade and become one of the trade powerhouses in the Caribbean, also agriculture (coffee, sugar) and tourism (Old San Juan, El Yunque, tropical beaches). Puerto Rico can legalise marijuana and prostitution, and turn this into a industry too. Also being a center Latin Caribbean of culture is a benefit, alot of reggaeton and salsa artists come from PR.

For Independence to happen, the people need to change their mindset and I'm glad this new generation is doing that. Survival and success IS a mindset. Also continue to keep these government officials in check, corrupt politicians aren't immortal.
Yes I see PR in the process of losing its identity and it's sad. I'd rather PR keep it's identity instead of all these outsiders come in and change things the way it always happens. After Katrina New Orleans culture has declined. I do for selfish reasons hope they remain a territory as I would like to move there. However it's never been my policy to go to someone else house and tell them to redecorate.
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Old 05-29-2020, 03:01 PM
 
Location: On a Long Island in NY
7,801 posts, read 9,068,891 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Iam_rising View Post
Many Puerto Ricans (mainly the older ones) need to stop thinking that staying as with the US is the only way to survive. Stop relying on the US federal government. Puerto Rico is like a 30 year old mixed race man who had a rough childhood, who later got adopted as a child by a white family (or kidnapped if you really think about USA stole PR from Spain), and now wants to willingly stay with this white family that lowkey doesnt even like him.
This sort of elitist and arrogant statement only ends up alienating statehooders and commonwealth supporters. If independence supporters want to gain support they are going to have to stop belittling people who have differing viewpoints.

Also, if the US is so bad why are you living in New York City? Why not move to Panama if Panama is doing so great? I find it hypocritical that you mock and insult statehood supporters while happily enjoying every benefit of being an American.

As for younger people? Demographic trends in Puerto Rico are strongly older and sicker ... both of which benefit the statehood movement. Also, according to polling I've seen the younger generations aren't that much less unionist than older generations. UPR students (who ironically are overwhelmingly dependent on Pell grants) aren't representative of youth at large. The highest support for independence is actually found in the 45-65 age range according to a 2019 poll. Support for statehood was highest in the 25-45 age range.
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Old 06-01-2020, 09:30 AM
 
Location: Philly
10,067 posts, read 14,896,419 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Va83 View Post
Yes I see PR in the process of losing its identity and it's sad. I'd rather PR keep it's identity instead of all these outsiders come in and change things the way it always happens. After Katrina New Orleans culture has declined. I do for selfish reasons hope they remain a territory as I would like to move there. However it's never been my policy to go to someone else house and tell them to redecorate.
New orleans has been in decline for decades, people relocated after the hurricane and never moved back because new orleans is not a good place to be despite it's rich cultural history. while it's easy to take a provincial attitude and blame outsiders it is in fact the insiders who destroyed new orleans. the same is true in PR, people are leaving because the government is run by corrupt and incompetent people who are more interested in pilfering public funds than enabling prosperity. Maria was a defining event but the reality is the electrical system collapsed because politicians pilfered the funds for foolish projects and larded up PREPA with their cronies. there was never any money for the system.

sure, there will always be nationalist populists worried about cultural purity but cultures evolve and change over time.
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Old 06-01-2020, 11:04 AM
 
1,703 posts, read 887,579 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pman View Post
New orleans has been in decline for decades, people relocated after the hurricane and never moved back because new orleans is not a good place to be despite it's rich cultural history. while it's easy to take a provincial attitude and blame outsiders it is in fact the insiders who destroyed new orleans. the same is true in PR, people are leaving because the government is run by corrupt and incompetent people who are more interested in pilfering public funds than enabling prosperity. Maria was a defining event but the reality is the electrical system collapsed because politicians pilfered the funds for foolish projects and larded up PREPA with their cronies. there was never any money for the system.

sure, there will always be nationalist populists worried about cultural purity but cultures evolve and change over time.
Had Katrina not happened New Orleans would have been just fine without outsiders. Nobody is asking outsiders for their opinion on how to change. They take it upon themselves to come in and change things around. If a place wants to live one way it is not anyones business to tell them to change without their opinion being solicited. i wonder why culture "evolve" over time. Could it be that people who have no appreciation for said culture moves in and erases it?
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Old 06-01-2020, 11:24 AM
 
Location: Philly
10,067 posts, read 14,896,419 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Va83 View Post
Had Katrina not happened New Orleans would have been just fine without outsiders. Nobody is asking outsiders for their opinion on how to change. They take it upon themselves to come in and change things around. If a place wants to live one way it is not anyones business to tell them to change without their opinion being solicited. i wonder why culture "evolve" over time. Could it be that people who have no appreciation for said culture moves in and erases it?
new orleans was a disaster even before the levies broke and plenty of people in new orleans wanted to change it since poverty and violence is not everyone's dream. not shockingly, corruption was endemic in new orleans. great food and music though. culture evolves over time because people and circumstances change...sometimes the change is foisted upon them and sometimes it happens voluntarily...the purists are almost always misguided people.
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Old 06-01-2020, 11:36 AM
 
1,703 posts, read 887,579 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pman View Post
new orleans was a disaster even before the levies broke and plenty of people in new orleans wanted to change it since poverty and violence is not everyone's dream. not shockingly, corruption was endemic in new orleans. great food and music though. culture evolves over time because people and circumstances change...sometimes the change is foisted upon them and sometimes it happens voluntarily...the purists are almost always misguided people.
And so is W.Virginia but I can only guess why people aren't invading them and trying to change the meth situation there. I guess I'll remain misguided because I don't want to everybody to be one way. Someone should never have their culture killed off from fear of outsiders.
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Old 06-02-2020, 09:04 AM
 
Location: Philly
10,067 posts, read 14,896,419 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Va83 View Post
And so is W.Virginia but I can only guess why people aren't invading them and trying to change the meth situation there. I guess I'll remain misguided because I don't want to everybody to be one way. Someone should never have their culture killed off from fear of outsiders.
nobody is saying everyone has to be one way...and quite frankly, it's not like meth was always a problem in west virginia but I think you are missing the larger point. west virginia does have its own unique culture (for better and for worse) and is a state. you are not arguing that people should have unique cultures but that they should never change. PR is not being invaded, migration data shows more the opposite, people leaving because of how its run.
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Old 06-02-2020, 09:41 AM
 
1,703 posts, read 887,579 times
Reputation: 1638
Quote:
Originally Posted by pman View Post
nobody is saying everyone has to be one way...and quite frankly, it's not like meth was always a problem in west virginia but I think you are missing the larger point. west virginia does have its own unique culture (for better and for worse) and is a state. you are not arguing that people should have unique cultures but that they should never change. PR is not being invaded, migration data shows more the opposite, people leaving because of how its run.
You calling me a purist and talking about cultures evolving sounds like you wouldn't mind if PR changes or the fact that New Orleans already has. No PR is not currently being invaded but in a sense New Orleans was in a "clean up effort" they cleaned the culture right out of New Orleans. Yes PR needs to pick new leadership and they have stated that already but they do not need to change their status to do it. Being independent will kill them but if they became a state they might as well change the name to New Florida. And just to be clear West Virginia doesn't need anyone to come in and tell them what to do either.
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Old 06-02-2020, 11:01 AM
 
Location: Holly Neighborhood, Austin, Texas
3,835 posts, read 5,711,528 times
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Hawaii and Alaska made sense economically and strategically, but there would be negligible benefit to adding PR as a state. Nothing against the people, culture, history, etc. but there is nothing on their collective resume that would suggest it would be a mutually beneficial relationship. Actually to let it go and become independent would be a sign to the world that the US is not imperialistic....and not a caretaker either.
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Old 06-02-2020, 11:46 AM
 
Location: On a Long Island in NY
7,801 posts, read 9,068,891 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by verybadgnome View Post
Hawaii and Alaska made sense economically and strategically, but there would be negligible benefit to adding PR as a state. Nothing against the people, culture, history, etc. but there is nothing on their collective resume that would suggest it would be a mutually beneficial relationship. Actually to let it go and become independent would be a sign to the world that the US is not imperialistic....and not a caretaker either.
How do you think we came to get Texas? You think the Tejanos had any say in whether they wanted to be part of the US?
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