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Old 10-18-2020, 11:50 PM
 
453 posts, read 116,212 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by danielj72 View Post
In the end it is up to those who live on the island to decide this. Most Puerto Rican’s I’ve heard speak on this are proud of being US citizens. They are also proud to be Puerto Rican. I don’t see them choosing independence. They are far more likely to choose statehood. Staying the way they are holds attraction too. Now they have most the benefits of being Americans without paying taxes. Is it worth it for them to trade tax free life for representation in Congress and a vote for president? That is up to them. After 120 years of being part of this country they have the right to decide this for themselves.
No is not. Is not just up to them. Congress decides and they set the requirements and standards and it's up to the people in the island to accept the responsibilities of being a state.

Being proud of being U.S. Citizen as long that the American economy is good and feeling American are 2 different things. When the majority refuses to speak English, don't feel Americans, only fly their flag, want to keep their own Olympics and Miss Universe because they want to keep their own identity apart from Americans then that should give everybody pause in pushing a jibaro statehood that has a strong possibility of imploding.

This reminds me of the Navajos I deal with here. Most of them are proud to be U.S. Citizens and benefit from it but most don't feel Americans and want to keep their lands, identity and sovereignty apart from the federal government. I haven't heard 1 Navajo tell me they want to give the lands back to the U.S. and be under their full jurisdiction under statehood, not one but they love the U.S. dollar and come out here to the states to get jobs, buy stuff and the government benefits but when they get bored they return to their lands. It reminds me in some ways most Puerto Ricans. Love the American Dollar, love the American Economy, love the government benefits but don't feel Americans and have their own identity and want to keep it that way. It is what it is.
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Old 10-19-2020, 12:08 AM
 
453 posts, read 116,212 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UrbanQuest View Post
Language is also an issue.

that could be fix if they teach proper English in their public schools and take what have been given to them seriously. You know the main language in the schools in Singapore is English from 1st grade to colleges and they still keep their language and culture.. This is after they got their independence from the Brits.


There are a lot of things that have to change within if they want to be taken seriously as a state but they don't. Now they want to push statehood playing the race card and victim mentality. That is not going to work.
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Old 10-19-2020, 06:15 AM
 
708 posts, read 369,077 times
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Why in the word did the US want Puerto Rico? I don't see any good coming from it.
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Old 10-19-2020, 08:50 AM
 
3,235 posts, read 3,623,889 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Town View Post
Why in the word did the US want Puerto Rico? I don't see any good coming from it.
Reasons:
1. Cannon fodder as of WW1 and every subsequent US war thereafter

2. To put on display the difference between capitalism in Puerto Rico and communism in Cuba
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Old 10-19-2020, 08:58 AM
 
708 posts, read 369,077 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chacho_keva View Post
Reasons:
1. Cannon fodder as of WW1 and every subsequent US war thereafter

2. To put on display the difference between capitalism in Puerto Rico and communism in Cuba
Give it back to them we don't need it any longer. It just cost us money with nothing in return
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Old 10-19-2020, 09:39 AM
 
453 posts, read 116,212 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chacho_keva View Post
Reasons:
1. Cannon fodder as of WW1 and every subsequent US war thereafter

2. To put on display the difference between capitalism in Puerto Rico and communism in Cuba
For being an old independentista left wing living in California you sure spread anti-american myths and need a history lesson bad. I can't blame Puerto Rico public education since you live in California for decades but is that pro independence anti-american propaganda that you left the island with. It will die with you.

U.S. Citizenship to Puerto Rico was being debated and pushed heavily by Luis Muñoz Rivera in 1914 and 1915 who was the Resident Commissioner of Puerto Rico and Puerto Rican politicians in power in that era and passed by Congress way before the U.S. got involved in WW 1 and nobody had a crystal ball in Congress for the future wars of WW 2 and Cold War that the U.S. was dragged into and didn't start those wars decades later when all the politicians in Congress and Puerto Rico that pushed for American citizenship were gone from power or dead when WW 2 arrived and the rest of the wars.

Cuba didn't go communist until Castro took over Cuba in 1959. 44 years after Puerto Rico got their U.S. Citizenship. Unless Congress had another crystal ball in 1915 to see 1959 and Cuba then that's just another bad myth.

Last edited by SanJuanStar; 10-19-2020 at 10:40 AM..
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Old 10-19-2020, 06:06 PM
 
3,235 posts, read 3,623,889 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SanJuanStar View Post
For being an old independentista left wing living in California you sure spread anti-american myths and need a history lesson bad. I can't blame Puerto Rico public education since you live in California for decades but is that pro independence anti-american propaganda that you left the island with. It will die with you.

U.S. Citizenship to Puerto Rico was being debated and pushed heavily by Luis Muñoz Rivera in 1914 and 1915 who was the Resident Commissioner of Puerto Rico and Puerto Rican politicians in power in that era and passed by Congress way before the U.S. got involved in WW 1 and nobody had a crystal ball in Congress for the future wars of WW 2 and Cold War that the U.S. was dragged into and didn't start those wars decades later when all the politicians in Congress and Puerto Rico that pushed for American citizenship were gone from power or dead when WW 2 arrived and the rest of the wars.

Cuba didn't go communist until Castro took over Cuba in 1959. 44 years after Puerto Rico got their U.S. Citizenship. Unless Congress had another crystal ball in 1915 to see 1959 and Cuba then that's just another bad myth.

Nope! Not independentista. Never have been. Never will be. It makes no sense.

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Old 10-19-2020, 11:36 PM
 
453 posts, read 116,212 times
Reputation: 326
Quote:
Originally Posted by chacho_keva View Post
Nope! Not independentista. Never have been. Never will be. It makes no sense.


so why you repeat their nonsense? If you go by their history, the U.S. looks like Nazi Germany and Albizu like Gandhi.
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Old 10-21-2020, 09:58 PM
 
2,036 posts, read 2,267,040 times
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Better yet, why doesn’t the U.S. relinquish Puerto Rico, why should the decision be solely their choice? This island is nothing but an expense.
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Old 10-22-2020, 07:54 PM
 
1,822 posts, read 4,188,790 times
Reputation: 4921
Quote:
Originally Posted by 9162 View Post
Better yet, why doesn’t the U.S. relinquish Puerto Rico, why should the decision be solely their choice? This island is nothing but an expense.
Um...it isn't in the first place. You're barking up the wrong tree. The "hostage dynamic" you bemoan is not real nor present. The disposition of a territory is unitarily the job of Congress; a political body that prides itself in drawing a wealthy paycheck and cadillac healthcare/retirement, but doesn't want to take the heat over the responsibility of doing the unpopular legislative job they signed up for in the first place. That includes the Neoliberal corporatist bought-and-paid-for cowards whatever state it is you hail from, sends to Congress.

The Judiciary is so politicized in the first place because the Legislative is so derelict of their duties. It's the latter the ones holding your territorial surrendering wet dream hostage. It's certainly not the island.

As to the island itself, it matters not. Support for independence in the island is statistically irrelevant. So it's not like you're ever going to attain the real end state you seek by just relinquishing the land. Without the legal ability to restrict US citizens from freely moving, you're "stuck" with US.

Last edited by hindsight2020; 10-22-2020 at 08:10 PM..
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