U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > U.S. Territories
 [Register]
U.S. Territories Puerto Rico, Guam, U.S. Virgin Islands, etc.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 10-10-2020, 09:35 AM
 
Location: Toronto
2,071 posts, read 3,129,726 times
Reputation: 2283

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by chacho_keva View Post
"So innocent and beautiful back then"

The older I get, the less civil the world seems, and the more I find myself saying those words in my head. I sincerely miss the relative civility of simpler times. Thanks for sharing that brief but pleasant anecdote.
Seems to be the way all the older generation of Puerto Ricans feel about the island. When I look at old family photos, it seems very far removed from the Puerto Rico of today. My mom (and I don’t know if she’s right about this) blames it on naive Puerto Ricans moving to cities like New York in the 50’s and 60’s, being confronted with all kinds of problems they hadn’t experienced on the island (systemic racism, segregated neighborhoods, drugs, organized crime, learning how to hustle in the big city) and then bringing those experiences back to the island little by little until the whole culture shifted. Certainly the cocaine trade blowing up in Colombia during the 70’s didn’t help. Now little Puerto Rico is a major player in the coke and heroin trade and a fair bit of it stays on the island, fueling a violent drug trade that is responsible for much of the island’s crime.
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 10-10-2020, 04:49 PM
 
1,822 posts, read 4,183,881 times
Reputation: 4921
Quote:
Originally Posted by TOkidd View Post
Seems to be the way all the older generation of Puerto Ricans feel about the island. When I look at old family photos, it seems very far removed from the Puerto Rico of today. My mom (and I don’t know if she’s right about this) blames it on naive Puerto Ricans moving to cities like New York in the 50’s and 60’s, being confronted with all kinds of problems they hadn’t experienced on the island (systemic racism, segregated neighborhoods, drugs, organized crime, learning how to hustle in the big city) and then bringing those experiences back to the island little by little until the whole culture shifted. Certainly the cocaine trade blowing up in Colombia during the 70’s didn’t help. Now little Puerto Rico is a major player in the coke and heroin trade and a fair bit of it stays on the island, fueling a violent drug trade that is responsible for much of the island’s crime.
Um, no. That's not at all the history of the diaspora of the 1940s-1960s, nor the genesis of current PR socioeconomic problems. Operation Bootstrap had the backfiring consequence of capital-output extracting by US corporations in the island, by the use of cheap PR labor. That two timing, colonial-version petite-bourgeoisie Muñoz Marín sold that bag to the plebe and initiated a rapid shift away from agriculture. This left the entire island without employment options outside the highly aggregating nascent industrial jobs competition in the San Juan and Ponce metros, and the rest is as they say history.

The boomeranging effect you're implying, that belongs squarely in the generational bracket of those from the 2008 debacle and newer; generally Florida landing economic refugees. Newyoricans from the old diaspora of the 40s never made a significant proportion of the returning demographic and by extension, newyorican culture is a complete non-sequitur to the discussion of socioeconomic factors in today's PR.

The 'drug trade' inflection was a bigger sticking point in the late 80s during the Colombian years of ascendance. With the move away from Colombia and into the Mexican cartels doing their own farming, Puerto Rico isn't as critical a drug logistics point as it used to be. Illegal immigration and outright human trafficking from the Dominican Republic otoh, that is an actual contemporary problem PR is facing. The drug trade is always in the background because of the low labor participation rate and low gross income in an island with mainland US COL in the metros. It's not causal though, it's ancillary.

I feel like this historical knowledge should be a given in a PR thread, but to reiterate: with the sunsetting of IRS section 936, the party was over for both US corporations and the Puerto Rican economy. So with it their capital fled, while an otherwise water-locked small colonial holding of a NeoLiberal globalist empire (the US in this case) ends up with a lopsided ledger that had been propped by deficit spending for decades. After all, you didn't make those big pharma rent-seekers pay their taxes as a condition of their presence here to begin with, thus support the increase in material standards (1976-2006) and global standing in the island on a solvent basis, absent section 936. So, with nothing to back it except government petty functionary employment, the gig was up, local governance has zero political will to come up with anything to replace it with, and here we are today. To be fair to the local govt, having a federal colonial board patronizing you like a scolded child doesn't help the enfranchisement question, let alone come up with solvency solutions. I digress.
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-11-2020, 05:36 PM
 
3,211 posts, read 3,609,379 times
Reputation: 4809
Quote:
Originally Posted by TOkidd View Post
Seems to be the way all the older generation of Puerto Ricans feel about the island. When I look at old family photos, it seems very far removed from the Puerto Rico of today. My mom (and I don’t know if she’s right about this) blames it on naive Puerto Ricans moving to cities like New York in the 50’s and 60’s, being confronted with all kinds of problems they hadn’t experienced on the island (systemic racism, segregated neighborhoods, drugs, organized crime, learning how to hustle in the big city) and then bringing those experiences back to the island little by little until the whole culture shifted. Certainly the cocaine trade blowing up in Colombia during the 70’s didn’t help. Now little Puerto Rico is a major player in the coke and heroin trade and a fair bit of it stays on the island, fueling a violent drug trade that is responsible for much of the island’s crime.
I was referring to life in general, not necessarily life in Puerto Rico.

As for your mom's theory about Boricuas moving to places like NYC, there might be a little validity to her beliefs. My parents moved to NYC when I was 6 years old. When we lived in PR, I grew up amongst family members who were black, white, and brown. As soon as we arrived in NYC, I felt more comfortable befriending African-Americans. Unfortunately, some African-Americans distanced themselves from me for not being "black enough," I guess. And yes, the streets made one take notice of one's surroundings; something which, to this day, is deeply ingrained in my psyche. No matter where I'm at, I always take notice of who's there, what's at my reach should I need something to defend myself, exits nearby, etc,. But, that's not exactly a bad thing.

As for everything else your mom believes, well, that's a toss-up. When I travel to the island, as like any place I travel to, I'm always cautious of my surroundings. It paid off at least once that can remember. That aside, I go there to see family and close friends. We normally go to places where thugs and druggies are not. There's nothing like driving along the coast and stopping here and there for a cold beer and a bite. Best yet, it's great bumping into an old acquaintence and sharing a conversation and a few laughs, remembering things from our youthful past.
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-12-2020, 06:30 PM
mym
 
632 posts, read 911,967 times
Reputation: 742
i remember when Bruiser Brody was murdered and Luis Vigoreaux

i wasnt there for cerro maravilla or Karl Walenda or when Muhammad Ali boxed in San Juan

i kinda remember the Mameyes landslide and that the Pope visited.

i remember Menudo with Ricky and i remember Chayanne and all the wannabe boy bands that sprung up around that time

i remember watching breakdancers on cardboard outside the coliseo during the fiestas patronales
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-12-2020, 07:17 PM
mym
 
632 posts, read 911,967 times
Reputation: 742
and i will never ever forget Jesus Christ headlights on a Toyota 1.8
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > U.S. Territories

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2021, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Contact Us - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37 - Top