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Old 12-22-2020, 11:22 AM
 
Location: Philly
10,067 posts, read 14,895,104 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SanJuanStar View Post
When Puerto Rico switched from an agriculture economy to an industrial developed economy these are the consequences. Labor laws and being under federal law and American protection is good overall but it put Puerto Rico at a huge disadvantage with our Latino friends in the coffee department and agriculture department to compete in the open global market. Add the small size. Puerto Rico is not the only place with good agriculture weather or the only place that knows to grow beans.


They produce enough beans to satisfy the locals and that's good. Don't expect for them to take on the big boys in the global market. Apart from Puerto Ricans, I have never heard non-Puerto Ricans say "I need to buy Puerto Rican coffee. It's the best. I will pay whatever to buy it", not even from my Latinos friends say it. Puerto Rico is known more for Rum to Latinos than coffee.
juan valdez was a marketing ploy and a successful one. competing takes work.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Juan_Valdez

there is at least some attention being paid to the fact that the island imports so much of even things it has the capacity to grow.
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Old 12-22-2020, 11:50 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pman View Post
juan valdez was a marketing ploy and a successful one. competing takes work.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Juan_Valdez

there is at least some attention being paid to the fact that the island imports so much of even things it has the capacity to grow.
the power of marketing. From your own link. There were 238 Juan Valdez coffee shops in 2013, 135 in Colombia and 35 shops in other countries. Juan Valdez brand coffee is available in Paraguay, Chile, Costa Rica, Aruba, Ecuador, El Salvador, Panama, Spain, Kuwait, Germany and the United States at supermarkets and Juan Valdez coffee shops.


tough competition. Colombia are still the king in coffee and outside from Puerto Ricans that pushes their own products (good thing, tribalism) I don't see a lot of non-Puerto Ricans demanding Puerto Rican coffee when you have many choices in the market as good or better.

There are more Puerto Ricans living in the states than the island itself. So there will always be demand for Puerto Rican products to the states. That will always be there. Most Puerto Ricans like to buy and support their own products. It keeps them close to the island and culture but I have never heard from non-Puerto Ricans a demand for Puerto Rican coffee especially paying the premium price to import the beans from Puerto Rico which is expensive outside of Florida or New York.
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Old 12-22-2020, 11:58 AM
 
Location: Philly
10,067 posts, read 14,895,104 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SanJuanStar View Post
the power of marketing...
tough competition. Colombia are still the king in coffee and outside from Puerto Ricans that pushes their own products (good thing, tribalism) I don't see a lot of non-Puerto Ricans demanding Puerto Rican coffee when you have many choices in the market as good or better.
Puerto Rican coffee quality is very good. what they lack is marketing savvy, good roads, and a competitive business environment. most people don't even know PR makes coffee or associate it with bustelo and other brands that don't even sell PR coffee. that's my point. Pr may never be colombia (which has had its own struggles over the years to move upmarket and get better pay for farmers, folgers doesn't pay well) but there is certainly room for growth and I've outlined what I see as the major impediments. marketing/education is probably the lowest hanging fruit but certainly the government could target the industry with a lower tax rate, can't squeeze blood from a stone.
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Old 12-22-2020, 12:33 PM
 
432 posts, read 102,112 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pman View Post
Puerto Rican coffee quality is very good. what they lack is marketing savvy, good roads, and a competitive business environment. most people don't even know PR makes coffee or associate it with bustelo and other brands that don't even sell PR coffee. that's my point. Pr may never be colombia (which has had its own struggles over the years to move upmarket and get better pay for farmers, folgers doesn't pay well) but there is certainly room for growth and I've outlined what I see as the major impediments. marketing/education is probably the lowest hanging fruit but certainly the government could target the industry with a lower tax rate, can't squeeze blood from a stone.
Again, you are Puerto Rican and I understand your push but explain to me why Puerto Rican coffee beans are very good compared to other Latin countries and Southeast Asia? is it the climate (tropical) or a special technique to grow beans or process the beans? they have some KFC secret recipe like to master beans?

I grew up with Yaucono but once I got out of the island, you discover many things that you don't see or taste in the island. Many other countries that have the climate, fields and have been growing coffee beans as long or even longer than Puerto Rico and are at another level and better marketing.

Puerto Rico's coffee is good (is not top 10) but there are many others in the market that make as good coffee or better and a higher production and better prices.

I have talked to many coffee lovers and experts and putting aside Puerto Ricans, none of them told me Puerto Rican coffee is one of the best or in high demand or they would pay premium money to get P.R. coffee. The only people in the states that will pay premium $$$$ to get Puerto Rican coffee are Puerto Rican themselves and it's more about tradition and culture. I did it a few times but it's a Puerto Rican thing but I know there are better beans in the market and the first demand people that grind coffee and likes to taste coffee is FRESHNESS of the Beans and easy access.

P.R. has more problems than just roads (that could be easily fix with all the federal aid they get from the U.S. if the P.R. government stops mismanaging funds) . I mentioned the big ones. Too small of an island and a small workforce that is expensive to run and hard to keep up in innovations and technology with the global market and the demands and very tough competition. They do OK with the locals and the demands in the states by mostly Ricans but that's the line.
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Old 12-22-2020, 10:16 PM
 
432 posts, read 102,112 times
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2019 stats for countries exporters of coffee beans.


1) Brazil (5,714,381,000 pounds a year)
2) Vietnam (3,637,627,000 pounds)
3) Colombia ( 1,785,744,000)
4) Indonesia (1,455,050,000)
5) Ethiopia ( 846,575,000)
6) Honduras (767,208,000)
7) India (767,207,000)
8) Uganda ( 634,931,000)
9) Mexico (515,881,000)
10) Guatemala ( 449,743,000)
11) Peru ( 423,287,000)
12) Nicaragua ( 291,010,000)
13) China ( 257,544,000)
14) Ivory Coast (238,099,000)
15) Costa Rica ( 197,357,000)
16) Kenya (110,187,000)
17) Papa Guinea ( 105,821,000)
18) Tanzania ( 105,821,000)
19) El Salvador ( 100,795,000)
20) Ecuador (92,594,000)
21) Cameroon ( 75,398,000)
22) Laos ( 68,784,000)
23) Madagascar ( 68,784,000)
24) Gabond ( 66,138,000)
25) Thailand ( 66,138,000)
26) Venezuela ( 66,138,000)
27) Dominican Republic ( 52,910,000)
28) Haiti (46,297,000)
29) Congo ( 44,312,000)
30) Rwanda ( 33,069,000)
31) Burundi ( 26,455,000)
32) Philippines ( 26,455,000)
33) Togo ( 26,455,000)
34) Guinea ( 21,164,000)
35) Yemen ( 15,873,000 )
36) Cuba ( 13,227,000
37) Panama ( 13,227,000)
38) Bolivia (11,904,000)
39) Timor Lester ( 10,582,000)
40) Central African Republic ( 8,598,000)
41) Nigeria ( 5,291,000)
42) Ghana ( 4,894,000)
43) Sierra Leone ( 4,761,000)
44) Angola ( 4,629,000)
45) Jamaica (2,777,000)
46) Paraguay ( 2,645,000)
47) Malawi ( 2,116,000)
48) Trinidad and Tobago ( 1,587,000)
49) Zimbabwe ( 1,322,000)
50) Liberia ( 793,000)
51) Zambia (264,000)


Puerto Rico doesn't make the list. What do all of these countries have in common? very low labor costs. None pay with the American dollar, none are under the jurisdiction of American labor laws or the high standards of environmental laws that raises the cost of production. About half of the crop in Puerto Rico remains unpicked because pickers are not available. Like I said, when the federal government pays you more in aid from food stamps, housing, education, electricity, transportation and even gives you a free cell phone, who wants to work in the fields picking up coffee for low wages in the heat for 40 hours plus a week??????? I don't see the independentistas who wants the U.S. gone working in the fields "para la patria". After getting their college degree thanks to the Pell Grants, they refuse to work in the fields but they sure talk about being a power house in coffee and sugar and are out of touch with reality.



Power House? LMAO. ok.
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Old 12-27-2020, 07:52 PM
 
Location: Philly
10,067 posts, read 14,895,104 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SanJuanStar View Post
Again, you are Puerto Rican and I understand your push but explain to me why Puerto Rican coffee beans are very good compared to other Latin countries and Southeast Asia? is it the climate (tropical) or a special technique to grow beans or process the beans? they have some KFC secret recipe like to master beans?

I grew up with Yaucono but once I got out of the island, you discover many things that you don't see or taste in the island. Many other countries that have the climate, fields and have been growing coffee beans as long or even longer than Puerto Rico and are at another level and better marketing.

Puerto Rico's coffee is good (is not top 10) but there are many others in the market that make as good coffee or better and a higher production and better prices.

I have talked to many coffee lovers and experts and putting aside Puerto Ricans, none of them told me Puerto Rican coffee is one of the best or in high demand or they would pay premium money to get P.R. coffee. The only people in the states that will pay premium $$$$ to get Puerto Rican coffee are Puerto Rican themselves and it's more about tradition and culture. I did it a few times but it's a Puerto Rican thing but I know there are better beans in the market and the first demand people that grind coffee and likes to taste coffee is FRESHNESS of the Beans and easy access.

P.R. has more problems than just roads (that could be easily fix with all the federal aid they get from the U.S. if the P.R. government stops mismanaging funds) . I mentioned the big ones. Too small of an island and a small workforce that is expensive to run and hard to keep up in innovations and technology with the global market and the demands and very tough competition. They do OK with the locals and the demands in the states by mostly Ricans but that's the line.
Nobody even knows about puerto rican coffee so of course it's not in " high" demand but we've been down this road already if you read my posts. And high demand isn't really the point. Most batistas are also not familiar with pr coffee.. Puerto Rico has a good climate and elevation for coffee. Some people like Ethiopian coffee, others like Brazilian, I like neither. I tend to like Peruvian coffee but i enjoy Puerto rican coffee which is typically strong and smooth. Lots of people like jamaican and Costa rican coffee. I dont see any reason why the island can't have a healthier, more competitive coffee sector. I think a lot of Puerto ricans dont appreciate what the island does do well while others perhaps romanticize the island overlooking what it doesn't
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Old 12-27-2020, 10:51 PM
 
432 posts, read 102,112 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pman View Post
Nobody even knows about puerto rican coffee so of course it's not in " high" demand but we've been down this road already if you read my posts. And high demand isn't really the point. Most batistas are also not familiar with pr coffee.. Puerto Rico has a good climate and elevation for coffee. Some people like Ethiopian coffee, others like Brazilian, I like neither. I tend to like Peruvian coffee but i enjoy Puerto rican coffee which is typically strong and smooth. Lots of people like jamaican and Costa rican coffee. I dont see any reason why the island can't have a healthier, more competitive coffee sector. I think a lot of Puerto ricans dont appreciate what the island does do well while others perhaps romanticize the island overlooking what it doesn't



Why is that? Puerto Rico has been a U.S. territory for 122 years and more Ricans live in the states than the island. Is not like they have an embargo that the outsiders on the island can't taste their coffee beans. Wal-Mart sells Yaucono and you can order it by a click. It's good but not good enough to take on a very tough competition and pay the premium price. You have over 50 countries that produce coffee and most better than Puerto Rico.


Wal-Mart sells 2 lbs. bean bags (pack) of Yaucono that makes 4 lbs. for $39.99 and they have to ship it by mail to most places. Costco sells Signature Supremo Bean Colombian Coffee 3 lbs. for $10.99 and it's sold at every Costco and you can get it in person same day. Colombian is better (opinion but many agree) , better price and better access. I can give you tons of examples of beans from other countries. So outside of Puerto Ricans, explain why non-Puerto Ricans should ignore a very healthy crowded worldwide competition of coffee to stick to Puerto Rican coffee over the rest and pay outrages prices? The coffee is good but not that good to pay that much and be a powerhouse.



So how can you make Puerto Rico compete with all those countries while paying U.S. Dollars and have to obey U.S. Federal labor and environmental laws and the Puerto Rico's government outrages laws of mandatory X-MAS bonuses, paid Holidays (which Puerto Rico has a lot ) while the competition countries don't? That plays a huge part in running a business especially against low wages from the competition.

by the way, Merry X-MAS to all here. This is a great video on the difference between Latte vs Cappuccino and making it. She uses Kenyan beans but you use your favorite beans. The spoon test is something out from the chemistry class in High School and very informative.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iIOs3Bqiulo&t=624s
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Old 12-28-2020, 08:27 AM
 
Location: Pereira, Colombia
1,410 posts, read 2,342,328 times
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From my experience living on the island from 2010-2012, Yauco is still the lead coffee-producing town, bar none.

Yaucono in the normal yellow, black and red bag is really nothing special but it´s cheap and can be bought just about anywhere. It´s pretty strong and is more bitter than the finca coffee I drink here in Colombia, so that tells me that they possibly mix Arabica and Robusta beans together, and/or they harvest the green berries instead of waiting for them to turn yellow or red like Colombian coffee harvesting rules require.

Yaucono Selecto is obviously the export grade that would do well in exterior markets, but...like much of PR´s economy, production is a hard sell when so many cheap imports flood the market from all over. At my university a group of students went to the mountains of Yauco municipality to pick coffee as a cultural field trip, and they all came back perplexed at how they picked and picked and filled a bag and were only paid a few dollars, I think the average pay each student netted was between $1.50 and $3. To make their coffee industry profitable, Puerto Rican growers would most likely have to automate everything, which then results in a less desirable product. It takes the human touch to know which berries to harvest. A mechanical arm is going to strip all berries off the plant, whether they´re green, yellow or red. Those green berries give us jolts of caffeine, but taste bitter as hell.

As the tropics continue to heat up, I wonder how long PR has for its industry to continue to operate. Even where I live in the Coffee Triangle of Colombia, concerning forecasts are on the horizon:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6IN4ZcZAUbA

Will coffee disappear in our lifetime? No, but we might need to get used to the flavor of instant coffee, because it may be all we have left a few decades from now. I only hope I´m wrong.

Disclaimer: Yes, parts of the above video are cringe-worthy, such as them claiming that Starbucks coffee is "the good stuff". It doesn´t take away from the main idea though. The climate data and the findings of the interviews are as real as it gets.
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Old 12-28-2020, 12:46 PM
 
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Maybe with climate change we will have coffee that is 100 percent British Columbian rather than 100 percent Colombian. Or coffee will be grown in Chile and Argentina.
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Old 12-28-2020, 01:12 PM
 
432 posts, read 102,112 times
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Interesting take. Yaucono is good and it does well in the island with locals. I'm not surprised they mix Arabica and Robusta beans together with the bad economy. Half of their crops is unpicked because they can't get workers. Unless you grew up in that culture and are a real farmer, people in Puerto Rico are not going to jump in that trade with many other better career options (being a U.S. territory comes with consequences). I used to work as a teenager in Puerto Rico landscaping and painting houses in the heat and sun as it's tough, something I will only do young and necessity for cash. Working in the fields you have to love that trade and don't mind the low wages and you better love the heat and flies and rain on you.



Wal Mart.com sells Yaucono beans 4 lbs. for $56. When you can get 5 lbs. Colombian Supremo beans for $46 (Amazon sells it as low as $41 for 5 lbs.). Colombian is superior. Costco sells 3 lbs. Colombian ground can for $10.99 while Wal-Mart sells Yaucono ground 14 oz for $13.69. 16 ounces - 1 lb.


They do ok with the locals and the millions of Puerto Ricans in the states that are loyal to stuff made in Puerto Rico but that's the line. I never heard non-Puerto Ricans especially Latinos say that they will pay premium price for Puerto Rican coffee and it's better than Colombian and others in the market not 1. Maybe over 125 years ago not today.


https://www.walmart.com/ip/Cafe-Yauc...Bags/111294630


https://www.walmart.com/ip/Yaucono-P...ll&athena=true


https://www.costco.com/kirkland-sign...100361434.html


https://www.amazon.com/Colombian-Sup...0A0V9KU0&psc=1
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