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Old 02-07-2021, 05:52 PM
 
453 posts, read 115,628 times
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Visiting is nice but you don't need to spend thousands of dollars and fly 10k miles over 17 hours with 3 stops to figure out simple math and common sense. Philippines has 103 million people at $3,300 per capital a year and Puerto Rico has 3 million people at 30k per capital with U.S. citizenship and a wide door to the best economy in world's history.


103 - 3 = 100 million. That's 100 million people difference. Not even on the same planet for comparison. That means they have more poverty, more crime and more corruption. It has nothing to do with race or culture but human nature. You put humans in bad conditions and expect the worse of them and they will do whatever it takes to survive and our laws and morals are Chinese language for them. That's why they kill and eat over 1 million dogs and cats a year. That's the level.

When I was in the Navy for training in Pensacola, Florida during land survival school they dropped the whole class in some remote forest for a whole week with enlisted and officers together with just a little water and salt and pepper to survive for that whole from the land. I was just 18 years old. I didn't eat for 2 days and just drank water. At the 3rd day the snakes the older shipments hunted and cooked it on the fire tasted pretty good and by the 4th and 5th day it was snake and whatever moves in the forest that we could eat. When we got back to the base they made us take a written test before going to the galley (it was torture for us) then we went to the galley to eat and we ate for 1 hour like Kings. It makes you appreciate more what you have everyday. The Pensacola galley in 1990 was one of the best I have been in the military because it was a galley for both officers and enlisted personnel together and the food was top notch. Anybody in the military knows Officer's food is a lot better than enlisted. It was like eating in a fine hotel restaurant 3 times a day. I was only there for 2 months. Then I went to Millington, Tennessee to continue my school and it was like 3 downgrades. It got a little better when I went to Virginia but Pensacola was the best. Air Force galleys are good for enlisted personnel. I stayed in a few Air Forces bases in my Navy career for training or waiting for flights on leave and I was impressed with the galleys and barracks, nice.


Imagine if they put me under that scenario permanent. I would be barbecuing dogs and whatever crawls.
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Old 02-07-2021, 07:52 PM
 
3,231 posts, read 3,623,059 times
Reputation: 4850
Quote:
Originally Posted by SanJuanStar View Post
Visiting is nice but you don't need to spend thousands of dollars and fly 10k miles over 17 hours with 3 stops to figure out simple math and common sense. Philippines has 103 million people at $3,300 per capital a year and Puerto Rico has 3 million people at 30k per capital with U.S. citizenship and a wide door to the best economy in world's history.


103 - 3 = 100 million. That's 100 million people difference. Not even on the same planet for comparison. That means they have more poverty, more crime and more corruption. It has nothing to do with race or culture but human nature. You put humans in bad conditions and expect the worse of them and they will do whatever it takes to survive and our laws and morals are Chinese language for them. That's why they kill and eat over 1 million dogs and cats a year. That's the level.

When I was in the Navy for training in Pensacola, Florida during land survival school they dropped the whole class in some remote forest for a whole week with enlisted and officers together with just a little water and salt and pepper to survive for that whole from the land. I was just 18 years old. I didn't eat for 2 days and just drank water. At the 3rd day the snakes the older shipments hunted and cooked it on the fire tasted pretty good and by the 4th and 5th day it was snake and whatever moves in the forest that we could eat. When we got back to the base they made us take a written test before going to the galley (it was torture for us) then we went to the galley to eat and we ate for 1 hour like Kings. It makes you appreciate more what you have everyday. The Pensacola galley in 1990 was one of the best I have been in the military because it was a galley for both officers and enlisted personnel together and the food was top notch. Anybody in the military knows Officer's food is a lot better than enlisted. It was like eating in a fine hotel restaurant 3 times a day. I was only there for 2 months. Then I went to Millington, Tennessee to continue my school and it was like 3 downgrades. It got a little better when I went to Virginia but Pensacola was the best. Air Force galleys are good for enlisted personnel. I stayed in a few Air Forces bases in my Navy career for training or waiting for flights on leave and I was impressed with the galleys and barracks, nice.


Imagine if they put me under that scenario permanent. I would be barbecuing dogs and whatever crawls.
FYI, a direct flight from LAX to MNL is 15 hours (+ a 45 minute refueling stop in Guam) due to headwinds. The return MNL to LAX flight is 12 hours due to tailwinds.
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Old 02-07-2021, 08:28 PM
 
453 posts, read 115,628 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chacho_keva View Post
FYI, a direct flight from LAX to MNL is 15 hours (+ a 45 minute refueling stop in Guam) due to headwinds. The return MNL to LAX flight is 12 hours due to tailwinds.

Thanks. I flew there with the military but it was a military plane and it was from Hawaii and Alaska and we made a few stops not a straight flight. I don't how long from Puerto Rico but I'm guessing it's similar going to Australia, forever.
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Old 02-08-2021, 07:40 PM
 
1,822 posts, read 4,188,530 times
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Closest I've come to the Philippines was ferrying a couple B-52Hs back and forth to/from Guam, non-stop from/to Louisiana. That made for long flights as it was, especially since we took the long way (non-great circle route) in order to avoid the cold water egress donning. We didn't have to land for fuel; I took my fuel stops inflight.

Miserable flight sitting on an ejection seat that long, compared to a purpose built cruiser like most widebody airliners (777/787 especially et al), with all their automation, comm (SELCAL) niceties et al and ability to stretch and lounge. These days I fly short-legged fighter-trainers; mission that suits me much better both on the duration and flying-type front. The BUFF stuff will make a good story for the memoirs one day. Digressing.

The economic comparison between PR and Philippines is nonsensical. Apples and cantaloupes. Folks have already covered the how's and why's above.
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Old 02-08-2021, 08:11 PM
 
453 posts, read 115,628 times
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Originally Posted by hindsight2020 View Post
Closest I've come to the Philippines was ferrying a couple B-52Hs back and forth to/from Guam, non-stop from/to Louisiana. That made for long flights as it was, especially since we took the long way (non-great circle route) in order to avoid the cold water egress donning. We didn't have to land for fuel; I took my fuel stops inflight.

Miserable flight sitting on an ejection seat that long, compared to a purpose built cruiser like most widebody airliners (777/787 especially et al), with all their automation, comm (SELCAL) niceties et al and ability to stretch and lounge. These days I fly short-legged fighter-trainers; mission that suits me much better both on the duration and flying-type front. The BUFF stuff will make a good story for the memoirs one day. Digressing.

The economic comparison between PR and Philippines is nonsensical. Apples and cantaloupes. Folks have already covered the how's and why's above.

If Puerto Rico wakes up with the Philippines per capita a lot of them would be jumping off a bridge. 30k to 3k is like cutting your wages 10x. Part of freedom is earning the most money so that you can make your own decisions for you and your love ones. Money and the movement of getting it is freedom, the more you have it the more freedom you have.


Some people say "money is not everything" and I say, whoever says that has never been poor or went to bed starving every night or listen to children cry because they are sick and don't have no basic needs like clean water and food and I don't mean American poor with all the safety nets, I mean 3rd world country poor like India, Philippines, El Salvador and many countries in Africa. If they get 1/4 of U.S. per capita they could solve many of their problems.
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Old 02-10-2021, 08:19 PM
 
Location: Chicago
1,543 posts, read 1,707,991 times
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I've never been to the Philippines, but I am staying in San Juan for the month. We got a good rate for an entire month at an Airbnb, but the area we're staying in is sketchy. When we looked at the map, we thought it was on the other side of the highway... Oh well... At least we can enjoy hot weather before returning to freezing Chicago.

But the poverty I see in this area is nothing like I've seen before. There's graffiti everywhere, garbage on the streets, stray cats, dogs and chickens walking around... The Airbnb we're staying is fine, but there is no hot water. And these people live like this all the time. Can it really get worse than that?
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Old 02-11-2021, 09:34 AM
 
1,023 posts, read 410,306 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kgordeeva View Post
I've never been to the Philippines, but I am staying in San Juan for the month. We got a good rate for an entire month at an Airbnb, but the area we're staying in is sketchy. When we looked at the map, we thought it was on the other side of the highway... Oh well... At least we can enjoy hot weather before returning to freezing Chicago.

But the poverty I see in this area is nothing like I've seen before. There's graffiti everywhere, garbage on the streets, stray cats, dogs and chickens walking around... The Airbnb we're staying is fine, but there is no hot water. And these people live like this all the time. Can it really get worse than that?
Everything is relative.
I lived on a farm in Ireland 1970. No electricity, no running water, no central heat.
No one complaining! We were happy. Most people would never think Ireland was poor in 1970 but there you have it.
Where else have you travelled to outside of the states.
That said most places people travel are the nicest places in the country.
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Old 02-15-2021, 06:56 AM
 
115 posts, read 33,351 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kgordeeva View Post

But the poverty I see in this area is nothing like I've seen before. There's graffiti everywhere, garbage on the streets, stray cats, dogs and chickens walking around... The Airbnb we're staying is fine, but there is no hot water. And these people live like this all the time. Can it really get worse than that?
And this my friends is why it should not be a state. It's just not ready. Once it's a state it's one directional. No going back. Pottery Barn Rule. That's why so important for it to be ready. Maybe in another 30 years.

Last edited by FasterThanTheSpeed; 02-15-2021 at 07:19 AM..
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Old 02-15-2021, 09:53 AM
 
Location: Chicago
1,543 posts, read 1,707,991 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FasterThanTheSpeed View Post
And this my friends is why it should not be a state. It's just not ready. Once it's a state it's one directional. No going back. Pottery Barn Rule. That's why so important for it to be ready. Maybe in another 30 years.
Why can't Puerto Rico get more tax dollars to clean up the island? I don't think there's enough garbage companies out here... Or do you think they just throw the trash on the street because they don't care? And they should have animal control...
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Old 02-15-2021, 10:21 AM
 
443 posts, read 432,830 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kgordeeva View Post
Why can't Puerto Rico get more tax dollars to clean up the island? I don't think there's enough garbage companies out here... Or do you think they just throw the trash on the street because they don't care? And they should have animal control...
The garbage issue is cultural, or maybe that is the wrong word, awareness or education is the problem. I do have several garbage stories that pertain exactly to this issue. I spent several winters in PR. The trash shocked me. Huge piles of it on some of the most amazing beaches. These were local beaches no tourists. People just leaving the beach and dumping everything in a pile before they got in their cars. They had this system if you can call it that , where people just freely throw trash on the ground and then at some point someone is supposed to come pick it up. As we know this will never work. I worked for a company that had a factory up on the mountains in a small town. Each year at various festivals the town would be covered in trash after the event. Our company went to the town and said why is all this trash being thrown away on our streets. They said the town could not afford trash cans. So our company bought 100's of trash cans for the town and when I went down next year you practically could not walk 10 ft before running into a trash can. The festival went on as usual and when it was done we were standing knee deep in trash, the cans were mostly empty. Here's another one. On the street we lived in Mayaguez each week a couple guys in a truck would come with brooms and sweep the trash up. One day I watched as they packed up and were driving away the driver through an empty cigarette package out the window..of the street he just swept. Last story. I took my family camping to Flamingo Beach on Culebra. It may be the most beautiful beach in the world. I arrived late in the evening and what I saw was essentially a trash dump. Trash all over the beach. I was completely shocked. I pushed aside some to set my tent up and we went to sleep. Next morning there was a team of park rangers cleaning the beach. When they were done it was pristine. I asked what had happened and they said the college kids had been on the beach for the holiday weekend...The garbage issue can not be solved in PR until the public is educated about it. This is the exact same thing we had happen here in the 1960's The crying Indian ad, if some of you remember. When I went to grade school in the 60's it was a huge thing drilled into us. Don't litter, and that essentially was all a took. That is all that needs to be done, teach the children, in 25 years problem will be solved.
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