Welcome to City-Data.com Forum!
U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Celebrating Memorial Day!
Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > U.S. Territories
 [Register]
U.S. Territories Puerto Rico, Guam, U.S. Virgin Islands, etc.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 05-20-2023, 10:23 PM
 
13,442 posts, read 4,283,969 times
Reputation: 5388

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by aab7855 View Post
Most of the top universities in PR are accredited in the US and there should be absolutely no problem jumping to the Mainland and making much more than you could make on the island. Police officers, teachers, firefighters and especially doctors are leaving the island en masse and those who stay behind feel the effects more and more.

A few universities here and there are more akin to diploma mills, and may not be accredited by any Stateside agency. My master's from Interamericana is as good as the one people spent 10x as much on in the States. And no, Inter isn't the most prestigious university out there, but I feel like I was well prepared.

The case of lawyers is more complicated:

https://www.lawyerlegion.com/associa...20jurisdiction.

PR uses the type of civil law based upon the Spanish colonial legacy left behind. 49 states practice common law based upon the colonial legacy of England. My home state of Louisiana also practices civil law based upon French customs, so possibly a Puerto Rican attorney could have an easier time passing the bar in Louisiana. Common and civil law are quite different, and many out of state lawyers are leery of Louisiana, and vice versa.

So yes, while the story of the abogada stuck in an underwhelming role in Utah may sound impossible, it's within the realm of possibility. I am sure she can change her situation eventually though.

Federal grants pay for the universities of Puerto Rico to be open. They better credit most of it, they pay for it and set up the standards for the schools in Puerto Rico to continue getting the aid.


The top notch University in Puerto Rico is UPR and they are ranked #250 in the nation (nationally). If you are making a career in Puerto Rico then that's the place to earn your degree. Especially in law and local politics and work for the Puerto Rico's govermment. If I want to make a career in the states, there are better choices in the mainland.



Each state has their own standards and requirements for police, teachers and firefighters that everybody moving in the states must pass including Puerto Ricans. Add the language barrier. Some will make the change with no issues, others won't. I know many teachers in Puerto Rico in the public schools that have been teachers for years and are good in what they do (others aren't) but they don't speak English at a level a teacher in a state must and they won't make the jump because they won't start all over again and leave their comfort zone.



I'm not saying it's impossible to make the change but it's tough because you are going from years in being in one system that does everything in Spanish to another system and language competing with younger people.


I don't care if it's civilian or military. You are competing with others for jobs, salaries and promotions and age is a huge part of organizations wanting to invest in you for the long run and part of the hiring process.


Going back to Florida. Florida has the #4 biggest economy in the nation behind California, Texas, New York. They don't earn that by most of their residents having low-skills and little college education. Florida would be the #1 choice I would recommend for Puerto Ricans wanting to make the jump but stay close to the island. Florida has a good economy, good school system, a favorable tax system, reasonable housing, good weather (closest to P.R. behind Hawaii but that's too far) and a strong Latin culture which any Puerto Rican would feel comfortable and won't be in shock.



Florida would be my #1 choice (except Miami) if I have to live on the East Coast. I like North Carolina and Georgia too but I like the West coast better. I couldn't live in the Northeast. The winters and taxes/cost of living are brutal but some people like that and that's good for them.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 05-21-2023, 02:52 PM
 
1,960 posts, read 4,662,597 times
Reputation: 5416
Yeah, many of the folks of my decile cohort (late 30s to late 40s) who I know back home that resemble the remark don't do the jump not because their UPR/Inter degrees somehow put them behind in the states. They don't do it because they've accepted the economic opportunity cost of remaining close to family benefactors, period dot.

Where they got sideways and stuck their spoon on my chili is when they padlocked in 2016 on those of us who had diaspora'd out, and started with the smear campaign of quitters and sellout nonsense. Just like back in high school when I got called piti yankee for stating I was going to go to college in the states, recognizing these economic dynamics before they smacked in me the face in adulthood.

Of course, I ask them to explain their genius math to solvency to me, on the back of a bar napkin like I'm a 6 year old if that's all they can muster. They quickly clam up or get umbraged. What they won't cop to, is the implicit expectation that they'll get the real estate life boat when their parents die, and live on meager savings and social security scraps to get them to the finish line. It's what folks in the states colloquially say under the cult movie reference of "but we don't talk about fight club".

Most of them are screwed absent that generational subsidy, and they know it. Especially for the public servant plurality who no longer has the pensions both my public-worker parents (HR career manager and public lawyer/child's court-appointed advocate respectively) managed to secure, which is the only real way they have been able to retire in place in the island in the first place.

So yes, if you're cool making 40% (in USD, and yes, that's what my RN wife would make compared to metro Texas, apples to apples, after income taxes, it's a complete non-starter) of what you can make in the states, have your real estate position guaranteed by multi-generational housing arbitrage then sure, you too can "be alright" by that subsistent definition, in the island for life.

Last edited by hindsight2020; 05-21-2023 at 03:23 PM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-23-2023, 04:29 PM
 
927 posts, read 758,082 times
Reputation: 934
South Florida. 2 years ago my friend flew over first to PR where she had lived 10 years earlier. We'll live on an organic farm. She immediately called me said Don't come over. They never recovered from the hurricane and its poor and threatening. I went to Southwest to turn in my ticket to get her back on an emergency basis. Yay Southwest.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-28-2023, 07:13 AM
 
Location: Coastal Georgia
50,344 posts, read 63,928,555 times
Reputation: 93287
Quote:
Originally Posted by chacho_keva View Post
With no lack of respect, I wish I could see Puerto Rico through your rose-colored glasses. Unfortunately, I struggle to see things as you do. Nevertheless, it thrills me to read of someone's positive experience while living in PR.

I considered moving back to PR upon retirement. I even contacted several realtors for questions and advice. The realtors were very helpful and to them I am very thankful.

It wasn't long ago that made my considerations known to a handful of relatives in mainland USA and in PR. Some relatives cheered my possible return. Others were a bit cautious and provided food for thought. The only person outside of family who I shared my intentions with was an old friend whom I've known since my teens. He's lived in PR all his life. He's always been a very blunt, to the point, and no sugar coating kinda guy. In a few words he told me how difficult life has become in PR.

I've made 2 trips to PR this year. It doesn't take much to witness what my friend warned me about. I'll leave the details unmentioned.

That aside, there is one looming crisis in PR which I will [once again] share with anyone reading this post; that is, the ever-growing waste management dilemma which has been swept under the rug since 1988. Puerto Rico is quickly running out of landfill space. Due to incompliance issues, several landfills were forcibly closed by the EPA many years ago. It's been estimated that the existing landfills have about 10 years' worth of capacity at best. Other estimates are more dismal.

One solution to this problem was first proposed in 1988. That was the year I and others got involved with presenting a solution to the crisis. Waste-to-Energy (WTE) was touted as the Best Available Control Technology (BACT). WTE technology is used around the world, but more so in island countries or states such as Japan, Taiwan, and Hawaii. Each time WTE was presented as a solution to PR's waste management problem, the backlash from well-meaning yet uninformed citizens were monumental. In addition, we were labeled as environmental terrorists who were only interested in money. Nothing was further from the truth. Contrarily, each time we asked WTE opponents for their equal-to or better-than solution to WTE, their responses were based on pie-in-the-sky hope. The result of their opposition is here today. To them I ask, what will Puerto Rico do once it runs out of landfill space? What then?


https://www.ecorichenv.com/news/puer...dfill-problems

https://globalpressjournal.com/ameri...to-rico-brink/
I didn’t mean that I would want to live there, but I can see why some who could afford to leave, stay. My DILs family are landowners. You don’t just up and leave that behind. The grandfather is thinking of selling off property, but I’m not sure if he has. That generation would never leave, but if they did it would be back to Spain, not the US.

Her family speaks Spanish. Although her parents generation is bilingual, they prefer Spanish and the grandparents don’t speak English.

They are used to the way things run, or don’t run, in PR. For example, after the big hurricane an individual could only buy 10 gallons of gas at a time to run the generators. It didn’t matter that you had enough money to buy as much as you needed.

They are used to some things being hard to get, like building supplies.

The thing that is so seductive to me is that the pace is relaxed, the colors are bright, and there is music in the air, wherever you go. Ive never experienced the underbelly though.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-30-2023, 04:50 PM
 
3,562 posts, read 4,393,677 times
Reputation: 6270
Quote:
Originally Posted by gentlearts View Post
I didn’t mean that I would want to live there, but I can see why some who could afford to leave, stay. My DILs family are landowners. You don’t just up and leave that behind. The grandfather is thinking of selling off property, but I’m not sure if he has. That generation would never leave, but if they did it would be back to Spain, not the US.

Her family speaks Spanish. Although her parents generation is bilingual, they prefer Spanish and the grandparents don’t speak English.

They are used to the way things run, or don’t run, in PR. For example, after the big hurricane an individual could only buy 10 gallons of gas at a time to run the generators. It didn’t matter that you had enough money to buy as much as you needed.

They are used to some things being hard to get, like building supplies.

The thing that is so seductive to me is that the pace is relaxed, the colors are bright, and there is music in the air, wherever you go. Ive never experienced the underbelly though.
You're right. Landowners don't just wake up and leave the place where they have land ownership. In the end (al final de cuentas), it would be fair to say that most people would preferably reside in the land they were born in. However, sometimes one has to take a long hard look at where we came from and measure if it is best to return, no matter how deep our sigh.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-30-2023, 05:23 PM
 
Location: Somewhere on the Moon.
10,067 posts, read 14,940,669 times
Reputation: 10368
Quote:
Originally Posted by chacho_keva View Post
You're right. Landowners don't just wake up and leave the place where they have land ownership. In the end (al final de cuentas), it would be fair to say that most people would preferably reside in the land they were born in. However, sometimes one has to take a long hard look at where we came from and measure if it is best to return, no matter how deep our sigh.
Need to be careful of what I call the "greener grass syndrome." The grass always seem greener over the fence, but many times that is simply a perception as the grass on both sides of the fence are in fact the same.

Also, keep in mind that PR isn't exempt from the quintessential "Latin negativity." This was probably inherited from the Spanish as to this day they continue to be quite negative on Spain, despite right now life is better in Spain than in most of its history. It doesn't matter how good life gets, they will always find something to say things are bad. That's not to say sometimes things do go bad, but often there is much exaggeration due to the "Latin negativity."

Like starting a business, you tell a lot of people your intention to start a business and most will be negative about it and attempt to make you change your mind. If people always followed the advice from the naysayers, no new businesses would be created anywhere. Sometimes the best decisions are those everyone and their mother warned you not to take.

If you wait for the perfect time to do something, then you will never do it because that perfect time will never arrive.

Last edited by AntonioR; 05-30-2023 at 05:32 PM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-05-2023, 06:19 AM
 
Location: Coastal Georgia
50,344 posts, read 63,928,555 times
Reputation: 93287
Quote:
Originally Posted by norman_w View Post
South Florida. 2 years ago my friend flew over first to PR where she had lived 10 years earlier. We'll live on an organic farm. She immediately called me said Don't come over. They never recovered from the hurricane and its poor and threatening. I went to Southwest to turn in my ticket to get her back on an emergency basis. Yay Southwest.
I didn’t even touch on the safety part. A cousin of my DIL was murdered outside the gate of her home (years ago). My DILs grandparents were robbed at knife point in their walled and gated home (recently).

At my sons wedding reception at the grandparents walled casa, there were armed guards at the entrances.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-05-2023, 06:33 AM
 
Location: Coastal Georgia
50,344 posts, read 63,928,555 times
Reputation: 93287
Quote:
Originally Posted by hindsight2020 View Post
Yeah, many of the folks of my decile cohort (late 30s to late 40s) who I know back home that resemble the remark don't do the jump not because their UPR/Inter degrees somehow put them behind in the states. They don't do it because they've accepted the economic opportunity cost of remaining close to family benefactors, period dot.

Where they got sideways and stuck their spoon on my chili is when they padlocked in 2016 on those of us who had diaspora'd out, and started with the smear campaign of quitters and sellout nonsense. Just like back in high school when I got called piti yankee for stating I was going to go to college in the states, recognizing these economic dynamics before they smacked in me the face in adulthood.

Of course, I ask them to explain their genius math to solvency to me, on the back of a bar napkin like I'm a 6 year old if that's all they can muster. They quickly clam up or get umbraged. What they won't cop to, is the implicit expectation that they'll get the real estate life boat when their parents die, and live on meager savings and social security scraps to get them to the finish line. It's what folks in the states colloquially say under the cult movie reference of "but we don't talk about fight club".

Most of them are screwed absent that generational subsidy, and they know it. Especially for the public servant plurality who no longer has the pensions both my public-worker parents (HR career manager and public lawyer/child's court-appointed advocate respectively) managed to secure, which is the only real way they have been able to retire in place in the island in the first place.

So yes, if you're cool making 40% (in USD, and yes, that's what my RN wife would make compared to metro Texas, apples to apples, after income taxes, it's a complete non-starter) of what you can make in the states, have your real estate position guaranteed by multi-generational housing arbitrage then sure, you too can "be alright" by that subsistent definition, in the island for life.
My DIL has a masters degree in architecture. She’s not licensed yet. She and my son have been living in PR for the past year or so. She maintains a consulting business which involves traveling to NC. It would have been easier if she just got a job at an architectural firm in PR, but the pay is so low that she can’t do it. She can make more in a few weeks of consulting as she could working a 40 hour week in PR.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-05-2023, 04:04 PM
 
Location: The Circle City. Sometimes NE of Bagdad.
24,451 posts, read 25,987,852 times
Reputation: 59813
A friend of mine just moved from PR to NC. Something I thought she would never do.She is a degreed engineer and has worked for a aerospace company for 10 plus years. Two of her older sisters also engineers in aerospace at Wright Patt. AFB encouraged her to make the move as there was no longer anything keep her there and her daughters are doctors in the medical field in FL and TX.

Anyhow got this in a Yahoo news feed.

https://news.yahoo.com/aging-puerto-...120000639.html
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-05-2023, 04:16 PM
 
Location: New Orleans
1,554 posts, read 3,032,612 times
Reputation: 1960
Most of the people I ran with in PR have now gone Stateside. Those who worked in previously reliable fields such as government got particularly burned. One of my good friends is holding on to her Department of Education job simply because she couldn't leave her widow mother behind. This comes not only at the expense of being paid so much less than in the US, but there is also no pension left for teachers still working for the DE.

Who is staying then? Of the people I know, mostly small business owners who made big moves right after Maria. One guy's family owns a mattress store, and with the escalating exodus, they started buying used furniture from the hoardes of people leaving the island, and then reselling it using their already established store. Another guy was the lone employee of a Venezuelan arepa food truck, and when the owner decided he'd had enough and moved to Florida, my friend bought the truck and kept everything the same...as he put it, despite all the hardships the past few years, Puerto Ricans still love to eat.

Not everyone can have their own business, but at least the people who I know who do are doing okay still.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:


Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > U.S. Territories
Similar Threads

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2024, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Contact Us - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37 - Top