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Old 12-04-2010, 08:33 AM
 
5 posts, read 51,396 times
Reputation: 11

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Most people live in small houses that are around 150-300M^2 and cost less than 120k$. Mortgage payments are usually 50-60% of the average persons' monthly income (if not higher), this is the reason most puerto ricans are poor. Cost of living increases every year and wages stay the same and then the government wonders why drug dealing has so much appeal. We are basically living in a state of permanent slavery and the fact that you are encouraged to move out from 18-21 to get your own house and debts isn't any better.

While to most tourists PR might seem to be an average to above average 'country', they are only seeing the best parts, the parts that the government wants you to see. Reality is people live paycheck to paycheck, 'consolidating' debts with more debts, working dead end jobs just so they can keep their overpriced house and car, slowly going insane (only middle class workers). Who would want to work for 10+ years at a mcdonalds or other fast food rests?

On to the topic. PR is likely to remain a colony until the US falls. The latest generations are all conditioned to not bother because you will just be doing something unnecessary, S8, FS, HC you are entitled to all if you don't work and are given priority if you have a kid or two.

Those with luck to be born into mid-high end middle class will bail to the mainland, others will just have to wait for the next generation or two..
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Old 12-08-2010, 04:08 PM
 
1,090 posts, read 1,288,555 times
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What if someone from the US government forced the issue? Let's say that a few election cycles from now someone comes into the Presidency and decides to streamline the government. What if they essentially said: "Hey Puerto Rico (and the other unincorporated territories), join the party or leave."

In that situation would PRs vote for independence or just suck it up and join the Union?
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Old 12-08-2010, 09:00 PM
 
Location: Dorado, PR
241 posts, read 956,335 times
Reputation: 257
That is what the vote is for, to find out the answer to that question. Any speculation is unproductive.
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Old 12-09-2010, 04:30 AM
 
Location: On a Long Island in NY
7,732 posts, read 8,782,353 times
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I wouldent even have a referendum, I would just take the French route and directly integrate the US territories into the US as states on a random date.
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Old 12-14-2010, 06:23 PM
 
Location: Maryland
18,590 posts, read 16,974,702 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joelaldo View Post
That's a rather simplistic way of looking at it. Are you saying hong kong is succesful because it didn't have local rule and was ruled directly by the british? Why is it that African colonies, or Jamaica or other British colonies don't enjoy the same success as Hong Kong.

There are multiple factors, most important of all is the Chinese work ethic, entrepreneurship and savings rates. Without all this, Hong Kong would have never existed, and it's precisely became of the lack of all this that Puerto Rico is destined for mediocrity. While Chinese people in Hong Kong work an average of 60 hour weeks, save about 40% of their income and push their kids to excel in school... the opposite could be said about PR.

As chacho has said, there is a general disdain for hard work and a sense of entitlement on the island.... and this a prosperous independent nation does not make. I disagree with chacho that the island's natural resources limit it's prosperity though... since Mexico is a country laden with natural resources, and is still pretty poor. The key lies in the country's people. If a nation is innovative, hard-working and smart...it can prosper anywhere with any resources.
Not entirely correct. There were several British African colonies that were successful. The Gold Coast (Ghana) had a higher GDP than Malaysia and South Korea. Although you're right culture plays a big part in a country's success.
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Old 12-15-2010, 11:07 AM
 
Location: Bronx, NY
4,476 posts, read 8,633,789 times
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It would be a really bad choice for PR to become independent, but there are people who are living in their own bubble and are not opening their eyes. Ladies and Gents if PR becomes independent, PR will suffer great casualties. Right now PR is not looking like Haiti or Dominican Republic (No offense to anyone) because PR gets help from the USA. Then if PR becomes independent the PRicans that lives in PR will need a passport to travel to the USA and will be immigrants. Why do you think that PR is still a commonwealth? For this reason... Open your eyes people and stop living in that bubble.
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Old 12-15-2010, 06:38 PM
 
Location: On a Long Island in NY
7,732 posts, read 8,782,353 times
Reputation: 7139
Quote:
Originally Posted by nycricanpapi View Post
It would be a really bad choice for PR to become independent, but there are people who are living in their own bubble and are not opening their eyes. Ladies and Gents if PR becomes independent, PR will suffer great casualties. Right now PR is not looking like Haiti or Dominican Republic (No offense to anyone) because PR gets help from the USA. Then if PR becomes independent the PRicans that lives in PR will need a passport to travel to the USA and will be immigrants. Why do you think that PR is still a commonwealth? For this reason... Open your eyes people and stop living in that bubble.
Exactly, it's the same reason why Bermuda, Aruba, the Cayman Islands, etc keep rejecting independence ... it provides no benefits.

It's more or less a given fact that none of the world's 40 remaining dependent territories will ever become independent. Period.
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Old 01-03-2011, 06:07 PM
 
2 posts, read 2,187 times
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Five Points.

1. Puerto Rico cannot afford to go independent or they will be on the list with Cuba, Haiti, Dominica, etc. etc. etc.

2. U.S. does not want Puerto Rico to become a state, well i guess we could just raise the debt ceiling some more (what's a few billion amongst friends?).

3. U.S. will not force the issue, why upset the Puerto Rican voting base that are full voting residents? ala NY. Sure they are a minority, but they are vocal.
Puerto Rico is no longer of any military value (that ended back in the 70's-80's, so don't listen to that hype).

4. Puerto Rico can not help itself, no matter how much it wants to. No businesses (except maybe banking) have an economic advantage for moving there, PR has no natural resources, and are ruining what industry they have (tourism).

Puerto Rico cannot establish a manufacturing base due to a lack of resources and expense, therefore cannot establish a large middle class.
A fact that the U.S.A. would be wise in reflecting upon as we endeavor to become a "service economy".

5. The few opportunities they get to raise revenues get pissed away over nationality...
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Old 01-05-2011, 02:16 PM
 
8,750 posts, read 16,447,769 times
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My comments to the above:

1. This is because they are an enslaved culture. How can you generate wealth when .90 cents of every dollar goes to US corporations off the island?

2. The U.S. Corporations do not want PR to become a state because they lose much of the tax loopholes to avoid paying taxes on their exploitative revenues on the backs of PRs.

3. The US does not force the issue because it isn't politically popular YET. This may change as the winds of political change blow.

4. PR cannot help itself because it is enslaved (see point above). How do you help yourself when you are controlled 100% by a step-parent who only allows you to "change" so long as it benefits the step-parent 90%?

PR already has a manufacturing base, but these profits are sucked out to US Corporations on the mainland, leaving a minimum wage lifestyle for workers. They are not locally owned, just locally employed, as are all the businesses on the island.
Furthermore, the manufacturing base that once was the key to a middle class lifestyle in the US is now simply a race to the bottom for the cheapest labor possible. Manufacturing is no longer the answer and hasn't been for decades.

5. Agreed. Hopefully they will work towards cleaning house and resolving the status issue. Until then nothing will ever change on the island.
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Old 01-11-2011, 08:29 AM
 
Location: Philly
10,029 posts, read 14,497,581 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SobroGuy View Post
My comments to the above:

1. This is because they are an enslaved culture. How can you generate wealth when .90 cents of every dollar goes to US corporations off the island?

2. The U.S. Corporations do not want PR to become a state because they lose much of the tax loopholes to avoid paying taxes on their exploitative revenues on the backs of PRs.

3. The US does not force the issue because it isn't politically popular YET. This may change as the winds of political change blow.

4. PR cannot help itself because it is enslaved (see point above). How do you help yourself when you are controlled 100% by a step-parent who only allows you to "change" so long as it benefits the step-parent 90%?

PR already has a manufacturing base, but these profits are sucked out to US Corporations on the mainland, leaving a minimum wage lifestyle for workers. They are not locally owned, just locally employed, as are all the businesses on the island. Furthermore, the manufacturing base that once was the key to a middle class lifestyle in the US is now simply a race to the bottom for the cheapest labor possible. Manufacturing is no longer the answer and hasn't been for decades.

5. Agreed. Hopefully they will work towards cleaning house and resolving the status issue. Until then nothing will ever change on the island.
1) this is a copout. it takes years to set up a business in Puerto Rico. youc an generate wealthy by making it easier for peopel to set up their own businesses but Puerto Rico's byzantine tax and regulatory system isn't worth it on an island with low income levels where ambitious people can simply move to the US. it's completely unnecessary and completely under local control
2) US corporations were lured to Puerto Rico with tax incentives in an effort to bring manufacturing and office jobs to PR, to raise incomes, for better or worse. they don't have to be there.
the status issue may come up but I think independence will not happen if Puerto Rico doesn't offer a better quality of life first...people will vote to stay the same or become a state.as it is now, the most advantageous position is to stay the same and people vote that way.

haiti is much worse than either cuba or the dominican. that said, PR needs a healthy cuba and dominican if they are ever to have hopes of success as an independent. I think something along the lines of ASEAN would be in order
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