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Old 01-11-2011, 02:01 PM
 
8,750 posts, read 16,442,823 times
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1-It isn't a cop-out it is reality. The US owns almost everything on the island, the largest employers are US (the government is largest employer in fact), and .90 cents of every dollar spent on the island goes to American corporations in the mainland. You cannot generate wealth locally when 90% of all money earned, spent and invested goes out the door. If you believe otherwise, youa re only fooling yourself and buying into the "lift yourself with your bootstrap" nonsense which A: Has been proven not to work, and B: those bootstraps you are lifting are owned by the US!

2-Your first sentence is true. They don't have to be there and as a result of the race to the bottom in manufacturing for the cheapest labor possible, companies are leaving PR for India, Vietnam, Thailand, etc.

Since the founding of PR in 1493, the culture has been bred to be dependent on its parent for everything, and the independence gene has been eradicated from the population. Spain did it, the US did it, and now the PR people do it to themselves. The LEAST advantageous decision is Status Quo. Why? Because the reason why PR is in a time warp is because we have 3 rival parties who are busy denigrating eachother, they take turns controlling PR and instead of building towards something they tear down everything the prior party did and start from scratch..again and again and again.

You cannot move forward as a society when you start over every 4 years. Until the status is solved and everyone can rally towards one goal, whether it is independence or statehood, PR will languish forever, regardless of how successful Cuba and Santo Domingo are.
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Old 01-12-2011, 11:16 AM
 
43 posts, read 87,275 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SobroGuy View Post
My comments to the above:

1. This is because they are an enslaved culture. How can you generate wealth when .90 cents of every dollar goes to US corporations off the island?

2. The U.S. Corporations do not want PR to become a state because they lose much of the tax loopholes to avoid paying taxes on their exploitative revenues on the backs of PRs.

3. The US does not force the issue because it isn't politically popular YET. This may change as the winds of political change blow.

4. PR cannot help itself because it is enslaved (see point above). How do you help yourself when you are controlled 100% by a step-parent who only allows you to "change" so long as it benefits the step-parent 90%?

PR already has a manufacturing base, but these profits are sucked out to US Corporations on the mainland, leaving a minimum wage lifestyle for workers. They are not locally owned, just locally employed, as are all the businesses on the island. Furthermore, the manufacturing base that once was the key to a middle class lifestyle in the US is now simply a race to the bottom for the cheapest labor possible. Manufacturing is no longer the answer and hasn't been for decades.

5. Agreed. Hopefully they will work towards cleaning house and resolving the status issue. Until then nothing will ever change on the island.


I believe this post is the most reflecting of what is going on in Puerto Rico, is not based on speculations and assumptions. The status of "common wealth" was design for the purpose of corporations to enjoy the tax breaks in the island, it was also a short term plan or transition and the commonwealth was designed that after a certain amount of time Puerto Rico SHOULD have decided their status. Not one American politician since 1898, sat down and went out public confirming that the plans set for PR is to help Puerto Rico prosper, based on the insular cases, United States never had any intentions to annex Puerto Rico to become a state. This is something that many Puerto Ricans are unaware off. American Politicians in 1940s and 1950s saw Puerto Rico as a military strategic location. The corporations that took advantage of this tax breaks were mostly "Pharmaceutical companies" with one agenda and is to test most of their products on the populace, once Puerto Ricans began to notice what was going on and started excising their own human rights, then most companies began to leave Puerto Rico in droves.
Many of this companies that enjoyed tax breaks are first were aware of the status of Puerto Rico, but United States and many of its politicians in those days underestimated the fight that is in many Puerto Ricans, and changed the mind set on how to approach Puerto Rico.
I still cannot buy into the story that Puerto Rico will be a poor country if becomes independent, I just cannot imagine or entertain Puerto Rico becoming “third world country” if they become independent. Maybe I am one of the few Puerto Ricans that understand how far “latinos’ has come in the last 30 years, and how valuable as consumers we are becoming in this world to the point that many companies are requiring executive to learn Spanish.
The other case is that many people when we speak the independence of Puerto Rico, first mention how is going to becoming like Dominican Republic. And I can assure that “DR” is a developing country the fastest growing economy in the Caribbean and for the last two years the number one tourist destination in the Caribbean, one has to understand DR and the situation there are now. DR in the last century survived two American invasions, one dictator, and one American puppet president. And if you look at DR now for the last 30 to 40 years are becoming the country that Duarte envision.
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Old 03-10-2012, 03:13 AM
 
Location: United States of America
208 posts, read 728,670 times
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I hope so......one day...
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Old 03-10-2012, 06:46 AM
 
80 posts, read 382,782 times
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Puerto Rico becoming independent would be an absolute failure. They already have dilapidated sidewalks and abandon homes and buildings in San Juan...and this was in Condado, considered to be one of the wealthiest areas of San Juan. If it is like this as a commonwealth, it would only be disturbingly worse as an independent nation. Statehood is the only way to go, but I wouldn't hold my breath to see this one pass.
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Old 03-10-2012, 01:33 PM
 
3 posts, read 20,726 times
Reputation: 13
Default Statehood? Fat Chance

Quote:
Originally Posted by 1979 View Post
Is there any chance Puerto Rico could gain independence from the U.S. Do many Puerto Ricans desire independence or do they prefer to be a territory...with the perks...
The closest Puerto Rico will ever get to Statehood is on the Quarter. Why? Read my position on this issue at [URL="http://borikenlibre.com/?p=112"]Borikénlibre » Statehood for Puerto Rico? I don’t think so.[/URL]

Enjoy!

Agueybana
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Old 03-10-2012, 06:08 PM
 
355 posts, read 617,237 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Agueybana Borikenlibre View Post
The closest Puerto Rico will ever get to Statehood is on the Quarter. Why? Read my position on this issue at Borikénlibre » Statehood for Puerto Rico? I don’t think so.

Enjoy!

Agueybana
An interesting read but not entirely accurate. Several points are based on emotional conjecture and lore. But the underlying premise that Puerto Rico has been economically exploited, I would agree is true.

" Technical experts at the time of both investigations disagreed with the findings, believing that spontaneous combustion of coal in the bunker adjacent to the reserve six-inch magazine was the most likely cause of the explosion on board the ship. In 1976, Admiral Hyman G. Rickover published his book, How the Battleship Maine Was Destroyed. The admiral became interested in the disaster and wondered if the application of modern scientific knowledge could determine the cause. He called on two experts on explosions and their effects on ship hulls. Using documentation gathered from the two official inquiries, as well as information on the construction and ammunition of Maine, the experts concluded that the damage caused to the ship was inconsistent with the external explosion of a mine. The most likely cause, they speculated, was spontaneous combustion of coal in the bunker next to the magazine.

Some historians have disputed the findings in Rickover's book, maintaining that failure to detect spontaneous combustion in the coal bunker was highly unlikely. Yet evidence of a mine remains thin and such theories are based primarily on conjecture. Despite the best efforts of experts and historians in investigating this complex and technical subject, a definitive explanation for the destruction of Maine remains elusive."
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Old 04-19-2012, 07:05 AM
 
43 posts, read 87,275 times
Reputation: 17
Statehood for PR is more if a safetynet then anything, however, statehood does not guarantee any economic gains. I was born in PR, live in US and even here in the US there are many areas that ALWAYS has been affected and neglected regardless of the ecomic situation. One would think that areas in which has a large potulation of Puerto Ricans in places in the Bronx, Newark, etc. would get out of the rut, but that is not the case. One arguement people make that are against independence is that PR cannot survive bc is an Island. I can see that Singapore is surviving and its an island, sometimes I think that people who question if we can be succesful because its an island are doubting Puerto Ricans that live in the island and abroad. I believe that we are capable humans who can obtain success through independence.
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Old 04-19-2012, 08:36 AM
 
2,879 posts, read 3,417,327 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by antillanosiempre View Post
Statehood for PR is more if a safetynet then anything, however, statehood does not guarantee any economic gains. I was born in PR, live in US and even here in the US there are many areas that ALWAYS has been affected and neglected regardless of the ecomic situation. One would think that areas in which has a large potulation of Puerto Ricans in places in the Bronx, Newark, etc. would get out of the rut, but that is not the case. One arguement people make that are against independence is that PR cannot survive bc is an Island. I can see that Singapore is surviving and its an island, sometimes I think that people who question if we can be succesful because its an island are doubting Puerto Ricans that live in the island and abroad. I believe that we are capable humans who can obtain success through independence.
A Puerto Rican republic would not survive, not for being an island. It won't survive because most people there don't want to sacrifice, work hard, or get higher education. You cannot build a nation on the shoulders of people who don't want to sacrifice or work hard. In addition, us Puerto Ricans have become way too accustomed to the benefits of being a United States territory; of going to and coming from the mainland without green cards or passports.

Hey, BTW, have you ever taken the time to analyze the current social and economic situations of the other 18 Spanish speaking Latin American republics/countries? Not too pretty of a picture, if you ask me. Is that what you'd like for Puerto Rico to turn into; a 3rd world country?

Instead of dreaming about independence, better it would be if us Boricuas capitalized on the priviledge of being United States Citizens. Given our U.S. Citizenship, us Boricuas should be the best educated, the most bilingual, and the ones occupying most leadership roles in corporate USA and government.

Now that is something most defiinitely within our reach and capability. That is something we can definitely do. We can and should be the leaders and spearheads of the Hispanic community. We can and should be the head and not the tail of the Latino population in the USA! We can and should be the hardest working and most affluent Latinos in the USA!
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Old 04-19-2012, 10:53 AM
 
Location: On a Long Island in NY
7,732 posts, read 8,778,111 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chacho_keva View Post
A Puerto Rican republic would not survive, not for being an island. It won't survive because most people there don't want to sacrifice, work hard, or get higher education. You cannot build a nation on the shoulders of people who don't want to sacrifice or work hard. In addition, us Puerto Ricans have become way too accustomed to the benefits of being a United States territory; of going to and coming from the mainland without green cards or passports.

Hey, BTW, have you ever taken the time to analyze the current social and economic situations of the other 18 Spanish speaking Latin American republics/countries? Not too pretty of a picture, if you ask me. Is that what you'd like for Puerto Rico to turn into; a 3rd world country?

Instead of dreaming about independence, better it would be if us Boricuas capitalized on the priviledge of being United States Citizens. Given our U.S. Citizenship, us Boricuas should be the best educated, the most bilingual, and the ones occupying most leadership roles in corporate USA and government.

Now that is something most defiinitely within our reach and capability. That is something we can definitely do. We can and should be the leaders and spearheads of the Hispanic community. We can and should be the head and not the tail of the Latino population in the USA! We can and should be the hardest working and most affluent Latinos in the USA!


I wanted to rep you, but it told me I have to spread the rep around first. Great post though. Bilingual Puerto Ricans are highly prized in the Federal government especially in Federal law enforcement agencies.
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Old 04-19-2012, 02:46 PM
 
43 posts, read 87,275 times
Reputation: 17
Quote:
Originally Posted by chacho_keva View Post
A Puerto Rican republic would not survive, not for being an island. It won't survive because most people there don't want to sacrifice, work hard, or get higher education. You cannot build a nation on the shoulders of people who don't want to sacrifice or work hard. In addition, us Puerto Ricans have become way too accustomed to the benefits of being a United States territory; of going to and coming from the mainland without green cards or passports.

Hey, BTW, have you ever taken the time to analyze the current social and economic situations of the other 18 Spanish speaking Latin American republics/countries? Not too pretty of a picture, if you ask me. Is that what you'd like for Puerto Rico to turn into; a 3rd world country?

Instead of dreaming about independence, better it would be if us Boricuas capitalized on the priviledge of being United States Citizens. Given our U.S. Citizenship, us Boricuas should be the best educated, the most bilingual, and the ones occupying most leadership roles in corporate USA and government.

Now that is something most defiinitely within our reach and capability. That is something we can definitely do. We can and should be the leaders and spearheads of the Hispanic community. We can and should be the head and not the tail of the Latino population in the USA! We can and should be the hardest working and most affluent Latinos in the USA!


Not to agitate anyone or take personal shots here. You seem to be making a case that Latinos are not capable people to prosper on their own, but yet you seem to say that ONLY Puerto Ricans can succeed in this country?. Where a Mexican goes so does a Puerto Rican, and vice versa. I would expect comments from certain American groups who categorize Puerto Ricans as immigrants to say we PR are not good people, we steal, rape, use drugs, they don’t know how to handle business, they are not good workers, and so on, but I shouldn’t expect that from another Latino, at the end is what PR are categorize as Latinos in which includes Mexicans, Ecuadorians, Salvadorians, etc we are all on the same boat.

If one succeeds in this country is because of individual effort, one cannot guaranteed that we can prosper in the US because we are citizens. As you said we should be leaders, now the question why we do not have that much leaders? Well it’s a simple answer we are LATINOS there is bad stigma attached to Latinos that we are not capable leaders in which I say screw those people who feel we can’t do things. Then again I would suggest you find a book call "Voces De La Cultura" its 3 books that teach how rich PR history is, it’s a whos who and what they have done its remarkable on how many PR have done so much in this world, I would guarantee at the end of reading those books you would feel more proud of been PR than ever before. I don’t know who started this myth that we are lazy, yes there is a social problem in PR but that’s because the education system in PR it based on fear always reminding PRs of negative things. If I’m not mistaken the person who implemented the current education system right now was an American lawyer in 1930s that was not too fond of Puerto Ricans and was friend of Dr.Cornelious Rhodes the famous doctor who injected some PR with cancer cells, once I get the name I will post it.

I once interviewed a Puerto Rican male for a job few months ago, and I asked him since he was a young man at age of 29, why it took so long to find a job and so much gap of time in between jobs and his response was that I am Puerto Rican, I am lazy and it’s in my blood he said smiling. I told him not to say that because is not true; we are not lazy in nature, complacent yes. I asked him where he was born. He said here in US, I asked why you have not find a job, you were born here you a citizen of US you should have found a job very easily. He then said is hard to find job during these hard times. I said it’s interesting that where I work at in my department not one person was born in the US, so then I asked , you actually believe you were lazy because you were Puerto Rican, you believe on what others tell you. I was born in Pr, not once do I feel us lazy, so I showed him part of that book “Voces De La Cultura”, and to his amazed he was surprised on what we have done as people. I told him I make 80k a year and I’m on early 30s, I gave him my card and I told him that he is hired, the guy was happy, in return I told him to spread how hard working Puerto Ricans are. To this day he is one of my best workers in such a short time. He now believes how educated and hard working we are. We are that much capable of doing things.


About the other Latin countries, Argentina is doing ok, Costa Rica is doing ok, Panama is doing better, Dominican Republic economy is getting better, Chile is doing ok, Uruguay is doing ok, Paraguay is doing better. Most Latin countries at one point or another had a stable economy, unfortunately most regimes in those countries had American ties during the cold war era, and in 80s as you can see that some Latin countries have separated ties with US and been able to better themselves.
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