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Old 01-18-2009, 07:17 AM
 
Location: Tampa Bay`·.¸¸ ><((((º>.·´¯`·><((((º>
4,533 posts, read 6,778,136 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hindsight2020 View Post
Um, I come from a pro-statehood family, but even I must recognize the reasons PR will never become a state and the intricacies that make such a proposition a pipedream. PR and Mississippi are must certainly comparable. PR is a densely populated island, with a lot of brain drain going on. There are more second generation PR folk in the mainland than there are Puerto Ricans in the island. Mississippi has a problem with education levels and industry, which is exactly the same as Puerto Rico's problem. PR doesn't need to become a state to derive tax incentives to bring industries in, but PR has a TOUGH case to pitch to Corporate America when it comes to production costs given that doing business in an island increases costs across the board. Mississippi has a boatload of land and the mainland connectivity of being inside the continental US, putting it at a much greater advantage than Puerto Rico from a business perspective.

Look, the business model has been tried before. The only reason leading edge industry would invest in Puerto Rico is for the tax advantage, but that's not really an advantage to Puerto Rico long-term, which is why it went away (google seccion 936). As to federal funding, PR is the poster child for welfare state and consumption junction. It's the epitomy of a false service-based economy with the number #1 employer being the government and its highest operating cost being payroll.

As to the HI comparison, Hawaii ain't doing that great either on that [economic] front, the main industry is tourism, and as a state, HI has the highest percentage of government contribution to the gross state product (21%) when compared to the other 49. This is NOT a coincidence; PR would MIRROR HI's economic architecture to a T if it would become a state, and if there is something PR would surpass above HI it would be government employment numbers. Not exactly a case for positives. Puerto Rico has way more competition than HI on the tourism front, and as opposed to Hawaii's economic identity, Puerto Ricans in the island do not view themselves as this tourism-slaved populace of warm welcoming servants, they view themselves as entitled american citizens above the caribbean froth, deserving of high tech and cubicle jobs in spite of the clear absence of indsutry to support such an entitlement, which is WHY most educated people are employed in government pushing paper, or (such as myself) left for the mainland. Good bad or indifferent, that is the reality for the educated class in PR, which is still the minority per capita when compared to the 50 states. So yes, I too would like to see PR become a state and shed its colonial false national identity shackles that keep most people down there DUMB and dispossessed, but I do not tout it as the automatic economic salvation of the island. Furthermore, from a mainlander perspective I can come up with a dozen economic reasons why it doesn't make sense to incorporate the island into the union. The entitlements would go through the roof under congressional voting power, and in the end that will do nothing to help the rest of the country. Selfish? Perhaps, but it's the economic truth.

So let's do the math. A population with cultural and national identity hangups kept ignorant by the minority burgeouise class that pushes the national identity agenda on the indigent (i.e. the whole damn island) and an American Congress with 2,057 freggin' economic incentives from both parties to NOT touch that subject with a 10-foot pole, and 100 years of historical inertia thrown in there for good measure...equals PR statehood AND independence as a pipedream. The island's timing to do the statehood thing was late 40s and 1950 at the most, they missed their chance, HI didn't.

Independence will never happen. Economically it would be a disaster, and PR is ALREADY an economic disaster. This rubs some pro-independence people down there the wrong way, but they have their neighbor to argue that; most people would do a re-enactment of the fall of Saigon the second that island becomes independent. Those days are over, the island will never become independent, it will remain a colony in my estimation. Statehood would be economically marginally beneficial to the island, but it wouldn't save it from its ills overnight. Problem is that most people in the CONUS have NO incentives to make PR the 51st state and do recognize the average's Puerto Rican's national identity sentiment of ambiguity, which reinforces the idea that they don't want it. It's just not gonna happen. The best a person from PR can hope for is to attain a competitive education to jump ship to the mainland like I did, or remain in the island and accept the opportunity cost of residing in a colony of the US.
I agree with you.
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Old 02-20-2010, 05:06 PM
 
67 posts, read 160,182 times
Reputation: 25
Default what??

You oviously have no idea what you're talking about.... most of my people want it independant.... nobody really wants state hood... look at hawaii 90 percent of them wish they can get it back... Puerto Rico is a spanish speaking country why should my peoples counrey americanize it?? The Russians or canadians would rather die then to lose its culture.. why should our boricua people do the same?
N

Quote:
Originally Posted by RUBIES77 View Post
We prefer to keep the status quo. If anything, some prefer it to be another state, except that it will take the name away from Mississippi, as the most poorer one. Puerto Rico is a very small island with very few natural resources. We are wayyy overpopulated. What we will gain by becoming independent? There are people who may want it , but most of us do not.
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Old 02-23-2010, 08:55 AM
 
Location: St Thomas, US Virgin Islands
24,671 posts, read 60,678,878 times
Reputation: 26569
Quote:
Originally Posted by msoler29 View Post
You oviously have no idea what you're talking about.... most of my people want it independant.... nobody really wants state hood... look at hawaii 90 percent of them wish they can get it back... Puerto Rico is a spanish speaking country why should my peoples counrey americanize it?? The Russians or canadians would rather die then to lose its culture.. why should our boricua people do the same?
N



And how many of "your" people does that amount to as a percentage of the voting population. And from whence do you get the statistic that 90% of the voting population on Hawaii would rather revert to the previous status?

PR is a Spanish-speaking country? I beg to differ. The language of PR has developed as one of its own with an admixture of basic Spanish mixed up with such a bevy of American colloquialisms that its common language is actually quite far removed from traditional Spanish.

I don't know whether or not you've actually traveled through Spain but I'd bet that your "Spanglish" would need as much interpretation there as, for instance, a very distinct Midlands, Scottish or Welsh brogue would encounter traveling way to the South in the UK, let alone to the US!

Just a little suggestion but, before spouting off, it would probably be a pretty good idea to check your statistics and be ready to verify them. Cheers!

PS: What you hear on the street corner or in the local hang-out and from people who don't bother to register to vote is meaningless. If you want to make a change then register to vote and make your points known in a proper fashion through the due election process. Nothing else counts in a democratic society and you should feel grateful that you actually live in a democratic society and have that right to state your mind.
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Old 02-24-2010, 10:49 PM
 
Location: Scranton
1,384 posts, read 2,801,120 times
Reputation: 1650
Quote:
Originally Posted by msoler29 View Post
You oviously have no idea what you're talking about.... most of my people want it independant.... nobody really wants state hood... look at hawaii 90 percent of them wish they can get it back... Puerto Rico is a spanish speaking country why should my peoples counrey americanize it?? The Russians or canadians would rather die then to lose its culture.. why should our boricua people do the same?
Let's review some basic math lessons. 5% is NOT equal to "most people". The only way that PR would become independent is if Congress unilaterally gives it to it. And, with so many Puerto Ricans living on the mainland and voting, that won't be a politically wise decision.
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Old 02-25-2010, 07:31 AM
 
Location: DF
758 posts, read 2,004,140 times
Reputation: 616
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trucker7 View Post
Let's review some basic math lessons. 5% is NOT equal to "most people". The only way that PR would become independent is if Congress unilaterally gives it to it. And, with so many Puerto Ricans living on the mainland and voting, that won't be a politically wise decision.
Congress really can do whatever it wants without fearing too much political reprecussions. Like I've said in an earlier forum, the Puerto Rican diaspora in the United States isn't meaningful enough to raise a politicul rucus. But it's said it will honor whatever Puerto Ricans vote for (A cop-out if you ask me)

As to the O.P (A couple years old, I know).... like I've said in a forum before, the idea of independence is interesting but hardly even debatable. The two major sides of the battle are for statehood, or for status quo, of which the latter has always come out winning. Puerto Rico and her residents are comfortable the way they are... they don't have all the burdens of being an independent nation and having to fend for itself (the way Cuba, or D.R. do) but they enjoy certain decorative sovereignties other states don't have and can call themselves a 'country'.

I myself have no opinion. Don't ask me, I just work here.
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Old 02-25-2010, 07:35 AM
 
511 posts, read 1,605,884 times
Reputation: 188
I wouldn't mind seeing PR go independent. The American taxpayers could use a budget cut like that right about now.

I don't want them to obtain statehood.
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Old 02-26-2010, 12:06 PM
 
2,880 posts, read 3,418,971 times
Reputation: 4342
Quote:
Originally Posted by msoler29 View Post
You oviously have no idea what you're talking about.... most of my people want it independant.... nobody really wants state hood... look at hawaii 90 percent of them wish they can get it back... Puerto Rico is a spanish speaking country why should my peoples counrey americanize it?? The Russians or canadians would rather die then to lose its culture.. why should our boricua people do the same?
N



You really-really have no idea of you're talking about!

You say Puerto Rico is a Spanish speaking country and then compare it to Russia and Canada. Are you referring to the English or French speaking part of Canada? Are you insinuating that Spanish be the only language spoken in Puerto Rico? Anything wrong with bilingual or trilingualism? Gees, I can think of a few islands in the Caribbean where at least two languages are spoken. Hey, the more you know, the better off you are.

OK, back to your point. Let's assume for one minute that a majority of Puerto Ricans on the island wanted independence for Puerto Rico. Now please, be realistic...how many of those persons would be willing to do the hard and necessary work of converting a United States territory into a republic?

You cannot build a nation on the shoulders of people who:

- have a disdain for hard work.

- believe that the government owes them the liberty from having to sacrifice for anything.

- have little interest in higher education.

In addition, what natural resource would the economy be based on? Can you name one? Would we have to resort to offshore banking and gambling? If we become a banana republic, do we hire illegal Dominicans and Hatians to pick the crop?

I'd go on, but I wont. BTW, this is coming from a man who is as BORICUA to the core as they come. I'm just not afraid to discuss reality. It is what it is.
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Old 02-26-2010, 01:04 PM
 
Location: Colorado
1,524 posts, read 2,370,886 times
Reputation: 2175
Quote:
Originally Posted by msoler29 View Post
You oviously have no idea what you're talking about.... most of my people want it independant.... nobody really wants state hood... look at hawaii 90 percent of them wish they can get it back... Puerto Rico is a spanish speaking country why should my peoples counrey americanize it?? The Russians or canadians would rather die then to lose its culture.. why should our boricua people do the same?
N
Lol.....the Canadian culture?
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Old 02-27-2010, 07:50 PM
 
43 posts, read 87,312 times
Reputation: 17
Statehooder supporters compares Puerto Rico to other Latin countries, and how PR it has a better economy, etc. The truth is that Puerto Rico cannot be compare to other countries because technically its part of the US, to compare PR to other countries is like comparing Long Island, NY to Russia or another country, the fact that they need to compare PR to other US territories, and PR is one of the most poorest Territories in the US. Poorer then Mississippi, and Richer then American Samoa.
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Old 02-27-2010, 08:22 PM
 
43 posts, read 87,312 times
Reputation: 17
Another thing, If US gives PR the 51st state, with no guarantee that becoming a state will improve Economically, their are many states in the U.S. that are flirting with bankruptcy. Enormous States like California, New York, Michigan who are economic status is amongst the worst in the US. Also you have to understand each other that the U.S. is not going to guarantee anything in regard to PR that will see more jobs and companies move to the island . An example is the city of Detroit, Michigan. More then 50 percent of residents in Detroit live in poverty.
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