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Old 03-04-2010, 06:59 AM
 
Location: Center of the universe
24,672 posts, read 34,767,703 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WIHS2006 View Post
Micronesia, Palau, the Marshall Islands, etc are NOT sovereign nations. They are self governing possessions of the United States. They have internal autonomy but we (as in the United States) still control defense, foreign affairs, etc.

Puerto Rico will never become an independent nation, like all of the world's remaining colonies they have chosen to be colonies. PR chooses to be a US colony, Bermuda chooses to be a British colony, Aruba chooses to be a Dutch colony, Martinique chooses to be a French colony. This is something that the UN's "De-colonization Committee" seems to be unable to grasp.
Martinique is technically a department, analogous to a full-fledged U.S. State. It has the same status within France as Hawaii has in the U.S.
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Old 03-08-2010, 10:55 AM
 
43 posts, read 87,247 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lucario View Post
There is also a HUGE homeless population of Micronesians who have flocked to Hawaii.......the 50th state does not know what to do with them, and they are living on and crowding the beaches, straining social services and contributing to an increase in the crime rate.

Just saying..........

That issue sounds very similar, NY is going thru the same issue, California is going thru the same issue. Their are other countries, like Netherlands that is going thru the same issue of migration from other populations and increase homelessness, and crime rate. Is nothing new to the world, in fact when Spain arrived in the Caribbean islands they also was part of similar things, bringing diseases, crime, rape, etc. It is not nothing in our history of humanity, and is not an isolated situation that of Micronesia and hawaii.
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Old 03-08-2010, 12:11 PM
 
Location: DF
758 posts, read 2,002,923 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by antillanosiempre View Post
It is very important to educate the masses, you have many individuals teachers that represent the political parties in PR, is either PNP or PPD and they educate Puerto Ricans based on their opinions. when I talk to puerto ricans that the flag was illegal for you demonstrate in 1898 until 1952, many people with my mouth open surprise that in school that was never taught. Now in the school system that has a colonial mentality I don't understand why PR would educate us on the poverty of Haiti or the DR, why not talk about the richness of Israel a country with hardly many resources a country that is surrounded by mostly sand, or what about the island of Singapore, and island with no resource yet they one of the richest country in the world, why not teach puerto ricans about those things. The only thing I hear is negative things.

You're right, Puerto Rico COULD thrive like small island nations such as Singapore, or Desert Nations like Israel. Or nations that were mostly reclaimed from the sea like the netherlands, or small overcrowded nations like Taiwan and Korea.

BUT....

The BIG, (and pay attention here, because this is the only thing that matters), BIG difference is HUMAN resources. The other examples I provided had people that were highly skilled and have a strong work ethic. They were able to take the land that God (or Allah or whoever) gave them and make something out of.

Chacho touched on it earlier on this thread.
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Old 03-08-2010, 01:05 PM
 
Location: Bronx, NY
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I don't really care about PR because I live in the US, and I'm from NY. However I can tell you one thing. If PR gain its independence from the U.S. PR will be soo poor than and PR will not go anywhere. PR is lucky that PR is part of the US.
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Old 03-08-2010, 05:33 PM
 
Location: Milwaukee, Wisconsin
174 posts, read 533,937 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nycricanpapi View Post
I don't really care about PR because I live in the US, and I'm from NY. However I can tell you one thing. If PR gain its independence from the U.S. PR will be soo poor than and PR will not go anywhere. PR is lucky that PR is part of the US.
This is what it really comes down to. I have met way too many fellow Puerto Ricans that have this romantisied fantasy about Puerto Rico becoming an independant country. But the island cannot afford to go this route because this would be economic suicide . Look at the cuurent state of affairs in the island today. High unemployment, rising dependance on government welfare assistance programs, which for too many has become a permanent way of life, and the loss of many jobs from stateside companies taking their factories to other lower wage places like the Dominican Republic, Mexico and the big one today China.How would Puerto Rico be able to compete on the world markets when it can't even hold its own today? It will always be a commonwealth, which many are ok with because they can keep their current status in place or become a state. I don't see that happening any time soon since the political will is not there to make this happen. I don't think people on the island want to put themselves in a situation where they are going to have to pay way more in federal taxes. Look at the widescale protest that took place when the the govenor imposed an islandwide sales tax.
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Old 03-09-2010, 10:37 AM
 
Location: Center of the universe
24,672 posts, read 34,767,703 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by antillanosiempre View Post
That issue sounds very similar, NY is going thru the same issue, California is going thru the same issue. Their are other countries, like Netherlands that is going thru the same issue of migration from other populations and increase homelessness, and crime rate. Is nothing new to the world, in fact when Spain arrived in the Caribbean islands they also was part of similar things, bringing diseases, crime, rape, etc. It is not nothing in our history of humanity, and is not an isolated situation that of Micronesia and hawaii.

You make a great point about the adverse Spanish impact on the Caribbean. Thing is, though, that Spain was an outside invader, not a colonized group that has been marginalized because of the actions of the outside invader. If Spain suddenly had been home to displaced Tainos or Ciboney, then the Micronesia/Hawaii analogy would be applicable. Holland's case is similar to the Micros in Hawaii except that the Surinamese and Moluccans in the Netherlands are much more assimilated and prosperous (though still marginalized overall) than are the Micros in Hawaii.
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Old 03-13-2010, 08:52 AM
 
43 posts, read 87,247 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nycricanpapi View Post
I don't really care about PR because I live in the US, and I'm from NY. However I can tell you one thing. If PR gain its independence from the U.S. PR will be soo poor than and PR will not go anywhere. PR is lucky that PR is part of the US.
I still dont get it, why people continue to say that it would be a poor country if PR becomes independent. Sometimes i feel that people make assumptions based that PR is a latin territory and people still doubt that latin countries can prosper with out any hand out. Latvians, and estonians heard the same similar cry that those respected countries will not survive with out Russia, and look at them now. Independent and successful in its own glory, the country of Slovenia, people wonder how can you become a successful country after been torn apart due to wars. Yet, look at them now successful at its own right.

Slovakia, another country that became independent not too long ago.
The same applies, how can a country succeed while becoming smaller? then they has succeeded in its own right. Dominican Republic, a country that if you look at it history during the 1900's they were occupied by the US, and then a small invasion took splace in 1965, despite the interfering from the US.Dominican Republic has managed to be the number one tourist spot in the Caribbean, they have manage to have the fastest country economy is the caribbean, over exceding Puerto Rico(US), DR has overcome the US time after time. The US does not, and by anymeans has good intentions for PR to prosper. The US NEVER had any intentions of annexing PR, as you can look by the insular cases.

At the end, im going on a limb and say most posters here are latinos)if not i dont meant to offend), and in many cases we have been treated as 2nd class citizens. All im saying why not give the chance for another country to join the ranks of panama,costa rica, argentina, chile to become another successful latin country. How long are we going to be fooled by America that we need them. When in reality, America need the help of latin countries to prosper instead of the other way around.
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Old 03-13-2010, 09:00 AM
 
43 posts, read 87,247 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MKE-Ed View Post
This is what it really comes down to. I have met way too many fellow Puerto Ricans that have this romantisied fantasy about Puerto Rico becoming an independant country. But the island cannot afford to go this route because this would be economic suicide . Look at the cuurent state of affairs in the island today. High unemployment, rising dependance on government welfare assistance programs, which for too many has become a permanent way of life, and the loss of many jobs from stateside companies taking their factories to other lower wage places like the Dominican Republic, Mexico and the big one today China.How would Puerto Rico be able to compete on the world markets when it can't even hold its own today? It will always be a commonwealth, which many are ok with because they can keep their current status in place or become a state. I don't see that happening any time soon since the political will is not there to make this happen. I don't think people on the island want to put themselves in a situation where they are going to have to pay way more in federal taxes. Look at the widescale protest that took place when the the govenor imposed an islandwide sales tax.


The one thing ALL political parties in PR has in common the ONE thing they all agree, is that the average american tax payer is shelling money to keep this so call commonwealth afloat, you may say that it don't matter. But studies has showed that an average hard working american can loose up too 400 dollars in tax money just on PR alone in a 5 year span. Even Americans has lobby against statehood(Check out pro english first), and lobbied for PR self determination. So for someone to say it doesn't matter, when Barack Obama became president and sign up the last stimulus relief, about 5 billion when to PR. It was more then 17 other states. Sooner or later, americans will make a louder noise, and by then I believe that independent will be forced to PR and not the diplomatic way they it can obtain it now.
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Old 03-13-2010, 11:43 AM
 
2,875 posts, read 3,413,830 times
Reputation: 4339
Quote:
Originally Posted by antillanosiempre View Post
I still dont get it, why people continue to say that it would be a poor country if PR becomes independent. Sometimes i feel that people make assumptions based that PR is a latin territory and people still doubt that latin countries can prosper with out any hand out. Latvians, and estonians heard the same similar cry that those respected countries will not survive with out Russia, and look at them now. Independent and successful in its own glory, the country of Slovenia, people wonder how can you become a successful country after been torn apart due to wars. Yet, look at them now successful at its own right.

Slovakia, another country that became independent not too long ago.
The same applies, how can a country succeed while becoming smaller? then they has succeeded in its own right. Dominican Republic, a country that if you look at it history during the 1900's they were occupied by the US, and then a small invasion took splace in 1965, despite the interfering from the US.Dominican Republic has managed to be the number one tourist spot in the Caribbean, they have manage to have the fastest country economy is the caribbean, over exceding Puerto Rico(US), DR has overcome the US time after time. The US does not, and by anymeans has good intentions for PR to prosper. The US NEVER had any intentions of annexing PR, as you can look by the insular cases.

At the end, im going on a limb and say most posters here are latinos)if not i dont meant to offend), and in many cases we have been treated as 2nd class citizens. All im saying why not give the chance for another country to join the ranks of panama,costa rica, argentina, chile to become another successful latin country. How long are we going to be fooled by America that we need them. When in reality, America need the help of latin countries to prosper instead of the other way around.
I wrote this earlier in this post:

Let's assume for one minute that a majority of Puerto Ricans on the island wanted independence for Puerto Rico. Now please, be realistic...how many of those persons would be willing to do the hard and necessary work of converting a United States territory into a republic?

You cannot build a nation on the shoulders of people who:

- have a disdain for hard work.

- believe that the government owes them the liberty from having to sacrifice for anything.

- have little interest in higher education.

In addition, what natural resource would the economy be based on? Can you name one? Would we have to resort to offshore banking and gambling? If we become a banana republic, do we hire illegal Dominicans and Hatians to pick the crop?

I'd go on, but I wont. BTW, this is coming from a man who is as BORICUA to the core as they come. I'm just not afraid to discuss reality. It is what it is.

Puerto Rican independence will require a movement of young people who do not fear hard work, sacrifice and higher learning. Without these pillars, talks of independence will be no more than just talk!

And again, what will the economy be based on? Toursim and...??? What is that "and?"

As another poster stated, Puert Rican independence is nothing more than a romanticized fantasy. Many questions have to be answered before this topic warants any sort of merritt.
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Old 03-13-2010, 09:30 PM
 
Location: Winnetka, IL & Rolling Hills, CA
1,273 posts, read 4,007,231 times
Reputation: 594
The Republican Party supports granting statehood to Puerto Rico, while the Democratic Party has expressed opposition. Puerto Rico has not become a state simply because of economic and social instability. It has to demostrate economic and social stability in order to become a state. Mississippi is the U.S.'s poorest state, but Puerto Rico is about 1/2 as affluent as Mississippi. It will have to get to the level of Mississippi before it has a shot at statehood.
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