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Old 03-19-2010, 06:05 PM
 
35 posts, read 62,544 times
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PR is a wealthy island of the USA full of people that are all different from each other like any other place in the world, who are all individuals and human beings. By the way, I doubt most people in PR know where Aspen is, and vice versa. That is how another giveaway of how little to nothing you even know about PR and you just make it up out of the blue. There are so many accomplished people in PR and many ppl here have hopes and dreams and fulfill their very high expectations completely, including myself. Puerto Rico is nice.



I wont ever respond to anything else you say hindsight2020 or whatever your username is, I mean, you live in a backwoods town called Shreveport, Louisiana, some town that is 1000 times worse than San Juan, PR. You also only lived in the virgin islands, if at all, not PR. You derail every single PR topic into lies. You just lost.

Last edited by Notepad; 03-19-2010 at 06:57 PM..
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Old 03-19-2010, 07:44 PM
 
17 posts, read 41,338 times
Reputation: 31
Quote:
Originally Posted by hindsight2020 View Post
You've lost your mind. Go back to the shade, the sun has made you blind.

PR is an impoverished island colony full of people too consumed with inconsequential folkloric identity to care about getting mad about their inability to put food on the table without a hand out. An island colony kept that way by a few families more concerned with their next trip to Aspen than the high crime and dispossession that everybody else has to share with the peanut gallery in the streets. The fact that it has Caribbean weather is HARDLY a just opportunity cost for a life of clipped wings and lowered expectations.
Hello hindsight,

I registered for the sole purpose of asking you a question. I have to say that IMO you are a very smart and open minded person, unlike 99% of the Puerto Rican population who are too blind to see the truth the way you do. Your opinion about Puerto Rico is pretty similar to mine.

I've read many of your Puerto Rico posts and I agree with you that Puerto Ricans care too much about worshiping their island to do anything productive like improving it or doing something with their lives. I compare this to religion (especially Christianity, the main religion of Puerto Rico).

Think about it. For many Puerto Ricans, the island of Puerto Rico is the Christian equivalent of "God". The Puerto Rican flag is the equivalent of the Christian Cross. Puerto Ricans worship this island like a god. People write and compose songs to worship their "god" Puerto Rico. The same way Christianity blinds people from knowing and accepting facts that science can perfectly explain, worshiping the island like a god does the same and blinds the population. Does this make sense to you? This is why most of the Puerto Rican population is so egocentric and they think they are better than the rest of the World.

Also, you talk a lot about the elite few who are not stupid and take advantage of this. They know Puerto Rican worship in the form of songs and films or any other kind of media is a profitable business. I would like to know who do you think the elite few families in Puerto Rico are that take advantage of this to make money? I don't think these families even live in Puerto Rico. They just come here to sell their worshiping stuff and make money but they moved out of the island to the mainland a long time ago.

I lived a full year in Florida but unfortunately I had to return back because the college didn't wanted to grant me In State tuition. I'm back to the island and I hate every second I spend here. I'm thinking of joining the Air Force as a way of getting the hell out and never coming back. This place will never change and I won't grow old waiting for it to change to a better place.
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Old 03-19-2010, 10:03 PM
 
Location: Scranton
1,384 posts, read 2,799,821 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by antillanosiempre View Post
<SNIP>
Been able to do free trading with any country. been able to progress on our own, just on that prospect is where I can see a better future for PR.
<SNIP>
I am not the political parties that sell you their ideals on status, who use the PR status to garner votes. This is the thing about the independence, I have come across groups who as we speak want to kill the bill.2499, keep in mind that PR statehood comes at a cost and this bill will give more delegations to PR then 25 other states, so right off the bat you have states like North Carolina, Arkansas, Alabama, etc would loose representation, and are against the bill. Not even Washington DC, has no representation in the senate and most likely to become the 51st state. So lets say the only thing left for PR is commonwealth been that state,and independence as been non-factors. Wouldn't one day perhaps soon, some rogue politician would dispose of PR due to its economic absorption. Little by little you have "Americans" publishing more books about how costly is PR, then Americans supporting statehood.
There are arguments for independence, there are arguments for statehood, and there are arguments to remain as it is. But, unless something BIG happens, nothing's ever gonna change in PR with respect to its political status. And by something big, I mean something like the US government being overthrown, a dictatorship being implemented, a major war in US soil, or something to that effect. Many states will oppose giving PR statehood since they will lose political representation in the process and PR will become a bigger drain on the US Treasury. And while Congress could give PR independence unilaterally, it is not politically convenient with so many Puerto Ricans and other Hispanics living on the mainland and voting.

Probably, I'll get old and die before the political status of PR is ever resolved. That's why I don't lose any sleep thinking about it.
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Old 03-20-2010, 08:56 AM
 
43 posts, read 87,257 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trucker7 View Post
There are arguments for independence, there are arguments for statehood, and there are arguments to remain as it is. But, unless something BIG happens, nothing's ever gonna change in PR with respect to its political status. And by something big, I mean something like the US government being overthrown, a dictatorship being implemented, a major war in US soil, or something to that effect. Many states will oppose giving PR statehood since they will lose political representation in the process and PR will become a bigger drain on the US Treasury. And while Congress could give PR independence unilaterally, it is not politically convenient with so many Puerto Ricans and other Hispanics living on the mainland and voting.

Probably, I'll get old and die before the political status of PR is ever resolved. That's why I don't lose any sleep thinking about it.
Trucker7,

I would say the same thing, I am prob going to grow old and die before anything happens. No question that something BIG must happen, which is highly unlikely. My take is that the risks and the reward of all this, the risks of trying to bring independence if it fails I wont be loosing much. Even the PIP(Puerto Rico Independence Party) has not really lost anything to their fight, but the reward of bring independence its like that saying "Gold on the other side of the rainbow", me personally the prospect of been a full nation with out no limits that I can imagine. But, I know that in PR the system and the people need a shakeup, I know the reggaeton group Calle 13 are using music to speak their believes but I do not agree 100 percent how they do it, bashing the PR government. I know the politicians in PR are in dire straits but their is a better way to do it.

Also I have seen groups and individuals publishing books about PR and how much drain has it been to the US, I just finish reading a book "Pay to the order of Puerto Rico", very interesting even though it exaggerates numbers, but it does go hand and hand with what some senators in US been speaking about, and that PR is somewhat of a drain in the system. I see groups like the tea party, and pro English first actually lobbying against statehood.What I am doing is preparing myself, and preparing few things to offer, I cannot get no worst that what I am since I am enjoying the good things about the US.My agenda at this point is to built a "Dream Team". A team of individuals who specialize in certain aspects to built very progressive system and unlike the PNP and PPD, hopefully by 2012 make some type of proposal. If you think you can offer something to the table. you let me know. All im saying the rewards are greater then the risk, PR even though as we speak has social disorder and so on, I see PR and has the prospect of been something better and progressive.
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Old 03-20-2010, 09:20 AM
 
43 posts, read 87,257 times
Reputation: 17
Quote:
Originally Posted by joelr89 View Post
Hello hindsight,

I registered for the sole purpose of asking you a question. I have to say that IMO you are a very smart and open minded person, unlike 99% of the Puerto Rican population who are too blind to see the truth the way you do. Your opinion about Puerto Rico is pretty similar to mine.

I've read many of your Puerto Rico posts and I agree with you that Puerto Ricans care too much about worshiping their island to do anything productive like improving it or doing something with their lives. I compare this to religion (especially Christianity, the main religion of Puerto Rico).

Think about it. For many Puerto Ricans, the island of Puerto Rico is the Christian equivalent of "God". The Puerto Rican flag is the equivalent of the Christian Cross. Puerto Ricans worship this island like a god. People write and compose songs to worship their "god" Puerto Rico. The same way Christianity blinds people from knowing and accepting facts that science can perfectly explain, worshiping the island like a god does the same and blinds the population. Does this make sense to you? This is why most of the Puerto Rican population is so egocentric and they think they are better than the rest of the World.

Also, you talk a lot about the elite few who are not stupid and take advantage of this. They know Puerto Rican worship in the form of songs and films or any other kind of media is a profitable business. I would like to know who do you think the elite few families in Puerto Rico are that take advantage of this to make money? I don't think these families even live in Puerto Rico. They just come here to sell their worshiping stuff and make money but they moved out of the island to the mainland a long time ago.

I lived a full year in Florida but unfortunately I had to return back because the college didn't wanted to grant me In State tuition. I'm back to the island and I hate every second I spend here. I'm thinking of joining the Air Force as a way of getting the hell out and never coming back. This place will never change and I won't grow old waiting for it to change to a better place.
I have a question for you Joel, and with out telling me what political idea you support. How do you think PR can be better? Dont take this personally or the wrong way, it is interesting that I come across people that say the same thing. I remember a few years ago, in my line of work I was speaking to someone who is from PR and living in the US, it prompted that I sound PR and where in PR im from and etc. Then he was telling me, that "Things in PR are real bad, but yet I wouldn't change things", and even my mother says same thing. So It is interesting to hear people say those things.Is funny that Pricans know something is wrong
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Old 03-20-2010, 11:45 AM
 
17 posts, read 41,338 times
Reputation: 31
Quote:
Originally Posted by antillanosiempre View Post
I have a question for you Joel, and with out telling me what political idea you support. How do you think PR can be better? Dont take this personally or the wrong way, it is interesting that I come across people that say the same thing. I remember a few years ago, in my line of work I was speaking to someone who is from PR and living in the US, it prompted that I sound PR and where in PR im from and etc. Then he was telling me, that "Things in PR are real bad, but yet I wouldn't change things", and even my mother says same thing. So It is interesting to hear people say those things.Is funny that Pricans know something is wrong
Hmm... So many things wrong here that needs to be done right before any improvement can be seen. First, the party system is undemocratic. Let's be honest here, people don't vote because they like the candidates political views (apart from status). People vote for party affiliation, promise of reward for work in the "State" government, and status beliefs. Few people actually vote because they like the candidates political views.

It's obvious that the Status needs to be solved before anything can be done. That way we can have a real democracy by not worrying about the status and actually voting for a candidate or party's political views and not for the reasons I mentioned above. Let the people of Puerto Rico decide if they want to become a full fledged State of the country or an independent nation. Nobody else but the residents of Puerto Rico should decide this.

Second, the Government of Puerto Rico is WAY too big. I remember reading somewhere that Puerto Rico has the second biggest "State" Government in the United States. Only second to California! Can you believe it? The Government of Puerto Rico needs to be reduced to a small but extremely efficient manner.

The island has good infrastructure with many ways of improving it. But unfortunately, the government seems to forget that infrastructure needs maintenance or it deteriorates and crumbles. They just build great roads but never perform proper maintenance. The government needs to set a budget apart just for maintenance. It seems like they forget about the maintenance part when building infrastructure.

Third, they really need to enforce the laws around here. People know that over here they don't enforce the laws so they act like they don't care. That's why you see people driving like they are playing a video game. Throwing trash everywhere. People leaving their cars in the disabled parking spot. People just don't care. Enforce the laws and people will start behaving like humans.

Very important. The government need to stop encouraging welfare over here. Puerto Rico has more housing projects than any other State. Which is quite sad really. Help those who REALLY need it, not everyone who comes asking for it when they are fully capable of working.

Hell, If it was for me I would end the drugs ban. This would get rid of so many crime problems. Tax the drugs and sell it. This way, you get rid of gang wars over drugs, drug murders, etc. An unfortunate consequence of this could be that many addicts will die but I can live with that.

Puerto Ricans really need to get off their high horse and realize that they are no better than any other country. For god's sake, we are just humans living in a small rock that orbits the Sun of the Solar System, floating in space around the Milky Way Galaxy, one of BILLIONS of galaxies in the Universe. We are small in this Universe. Why have such an egocentric (almost compared to religion IMO) view of the place you were born. It just doesn't make sense in my mind.

Finally, improve education. English is the language of globalization and they don't encourage it's learning enough around here.

But, to be honest. It's a very long shot for this to ever happen in my lifetime. So I'm not gonna sit around waiting. It's all about your personal "Life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness". When I have the chance, I'll move again to the mainland and try to have a better life for myself.
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Old 03-20-2010, 04:24 PM
 
Location: The State Of California
9,723 posts, read 12,835,549 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hindsight2020 View Post
Um, I come from a pro-statehood family, but even I must recognize the reasons PR will never become a state and the intricacies that make such a proposition a pipedream. PR and Mississippi are must certainly comparable. PR is a densely populated island, with a lot of brain drain going on. There are more second generation PR folk in the mainland than there are Puerto Ricans in the island. Mississippi has a problem with education levels and industry, which is exactly the same as Puerto Rico's problem. PR doesn't need to become a state to derive tax incentives to bring industries in, but PR has a TOUGH case to pitch to Corporate America when it comes to production costs given that doing business in an island increases costs across the board. Mississippi has a boatload of land and the mainland connectivity of being inside the continental US, putting it at a much greater advantage than Puerto Rico from a business perspective.

Look, the business model has been tried before. The only reason leading edge industry would invest in Puerto Rico is for the tax advantage, but that's not really an advantage to Puerto Rico long-term, which is why it went away (google seccion 936). As to federal funding, PR is the poster child for welfare state and consumption junction. It's the epitomy of a false service-based economy with the number #1 employer being the government and its highest operating cost being payroll.

As to the HI comparison, Hawaii ain't doing that great either on that [economic] front, the main industry is tourism, and as a state, HI has the highest percentage of government contribution to the gross state product (21%) when compared to the other 49. This is NOT a coincidence; PR would MIRROR HI's economic architecture to a T if it would become a state, and if there is something PR would surpass above HI it would be government employment numbers. Not exactly a case for positives. Puerto Rico has way more competition than HI on the tourism front, and as opposed to Hawaii's economic identity, Puerto Ricans in the island do not view themselves as this tourism-slaved populace of warm welcoming servants, they view themselves as entitled american citizens above the caribbean froth, deserving of high tech and cubicle jobs in spite of the clear absence of indsutry to support such an entitlement, which is WHY most educated people are employed in government pushing paper, or (such as myself) left for the mainland. Good bad or indifferent, that is the reality for the educated class in PR, which is still the minority per capita when compared to the 50 states. So yes, I too would like to see PR become a state and shed its colonial false national identity shackles that keep most people down there DUMB and dispossessed, but I do not tout it as the automatic economic salvation of the island. Furthermore, from a mainlander perspective I can come up with a dozen economic reasons why it doesn't make sense to incorporate the island into the union. The entitlements would go through the roof under congressional voting power, and in the end that will do nothing to help the rest of the country. Selfish? Perhaps, but it's the economic truth.

So let's do the math. A population with cultural and national identity hangups kept ignorant by the minority burgeouise class that pushes the national identity agenda on the indigent (i.e. the whole damn island) and an American Congress with 2,057 freggin' economic incentives from both parties to NOT touch that subject with a 10-foot pole, and 100 years of historical inertia thrown in there for good measure...equals PR statehood AND independence as a pipedream. The island's timing to do the statehood thing was late 40s and 1950 at the most, they missed their chance, HI didn't.

Independence will never happen. Economically it would be a disaster, and PR is ALREADY an economic disaster. This rubs some pro-independence people down there the wrong way, but they have their neighbor to argue that; most people would do a re-enactment of the fall of Saigon the second that island becomes independent. Those days are over, the island will never become independent, it will remain a colony in my estimation. Statehood would be economically marginally beneficial to the island, but it wouldn't save it from its ills overnight. Problem is that most people in the CONUS have NO incentives to make PR the 51st state and do recognize the average's Puerto Rican's national identity sentiment of ambiguity, which reinforces the idea that they don't want it. It's just not gonna happen. The best a person from PR can hope for is to attain a competitive education to jump ship to the mainland like I did, or remain in the island and accept the opportunity cost of residing in a colony of the US.
Hawaii became a United State of America by U.S. Aggression , however
I don't think that the U.S.A. wants PR......
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Old 03-20-2010, 09:50 PM
 
35 posts, read 62,544 times
Reputation: 22
Geez those were two very dumb posts up there, like they were by a 13 year old B student.
1) The political parties dont matter, their all the same.
2) PR has nowhere near the largest governement of any state, and never has, and now that about 100,000 fovernment workers were laid off over the last couple of months to balance the budget, its even more so.
3) The infrastracture is very well maintained, theres many places in the US with much worse infrastractufre. The grass is always cut, the garbage is always picked up off the highways, potholes are filled in, etc. etc. I dont know where your getting this stuff from. Have you been here? This is actually frustrating me reading these blatant lies.
4) Traffic laws do need to be enforced more. But then again, other than the US, minor traffic laws arent enforced in almost any place on earth, especially not to the extent of the US. And its not THAT bad, it sure save you some money on not having to get tickets every year.
5) You want to make drugs legal here? ok, alcohol is legal, so I cant argue much with this one. I prefer they ban alcohol, but thats not just me and I know you mean its to tax it and make money, its something I dont think is possible except for marijuana like amsterdam, thats all over the WORLD, drugs is worldwide.
6) Americans are way more "on their high horse" than PR. The US thinks their the most important peopel on earht, and are really convinced about it, and they are very proud too, and everything that happenms there is World wide, like US news and World report, World Series, etc. etc. So please, stop picking on PR.
7) Its like, what, 90% of the people here know English! Everyone here knows English. Almost everyone, at least about 20 years old and above. You can get around here FINE without knowing spanish.
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Old 03-20-2010, 11:13 PM
 
Location: Scranton
1,384 posts, read 2,799,821 times
Reputation: 1650
The posts from Notepad are just simply moronic.

How to put Notepad on the ignore list and make him go away:
1. Find a post by Notepad and click on his name
2. When the menu pops up, click on 'View Public Profile'
3. Click on 'User Lists' right under his name
4. Another menu pops up. Click 'Add to Ignore List'
5. Click Yes to confirm.
And finally,
6. Return to a normal conversation between intelligent human beings.

BTW, Notepad, if you're reading this, I can't see your posts and I don't care.
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Old 03-21-2010, 02:14 AM
 
17 posts, read 41,338 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Notepad View Post
2) PR has nowhere near the largest governement of any state, and never has, and now that about 100,000 fovernment workers were laid off over the last couple of months to balance the budget, its even more so.
I just wanted to leave this here: http://www.cnn.com/2009/US/10/22/pue...omy/index.html

Quote:
Originally Posted by CNN
With a workforce of some 200,000, Puerto Rico, with a population of about 4 million, has more public employees than any state in the union, with the exception of California and New York, McClintock said. For comparison, California has about one state employee for every 103 residents, while Puerto Rico has one public worker for every 20 residents.
California and New York have WAY more population than Puerto Rico, yet with a mere 4 million residents, we rank as the 3rd "State" with more public employees in the country. That tells you somewhere right there. Also, the number of people laid off is not even close to 100,000. I think it was something no more than 40,000. Yet, way more than 100,000 people in the private sector were laid off and nobody protested.

Last edited by joelr89; 03-21-2010 at 02:50 AM..
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