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Old 03-21-2010, 11:22 PM
35 posts, read 62,638 times
Reputation: 22


^^^^Your numebrs are off. So suddenly the news is always right? That article is wrong.
Im glad about trucker7, I wont have to read any of his made up lies when responding to me about PR. It can get ridiculous the lies he makes up to attack PR.
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Old 03-23-2010, 12:23 PM
43 posts, read 87,314 times
Reputation: 17
Originally Posted by joelr89 View Post
Hmm... So many things wrong here that needs to be done right before any improvement can be seen. First, the party system is undemocratic. Let's be honest here, people don't vote because they like the candidates political views (apart from status). People vote for party affiliation, promise of reward for work in the "State" government, and status beliefs. Few people actually vote because they like the candidates political views.

It's obvious that the Status needs to be solved before anything can be done. That way we can have a real democracy by not worrying about the status and actually voting for a candidate or party's political views and not for the reasons I mentioned above. Let the people of Puerto Rico decide if they want to become a full fledged State of the country or an independent nation. Nobody else but the residents of Puerto Rico should decide this.

Second, the Government of Puerto Rico is WAY too big. I remember reading somewhere that Puerto Rico has the second biggest "State" Government in the United States. Only second to California! Can you believe it? The Government of Puerto Rico needs to be reduced to a small but extremely efficient manner.

The island has good infrastructure with many ways of improving it. But unfortunately, the government seems to forget that infrastructure needs maintenance or it deteriorates and crumbles. They just build great roads but never perform proper maintenance. The government needs to set a budget apart just for maintenance. It seems like they forget about the maintenance part when building infrastructure.

Third, they really need to enforce the laws around here. People know that over here they don't enforce the laws so they act like they don't care. That's why you see people driving like they are playing a video game. Throwing trash everywhere. People leaving their cars in the disabled parking spot. People just don't care. Enforce the laws and people will start behaving like humans.

Very important. The government need to stop encouraging welfare over here. Puerto Rico has more housing projects than any other State. Which is quite sad really. Help those who REALLY need it, not everyone who comes asking for it when they are fully capable of working.

Hell, If it was for me I would end the drugs ban. This would get rid of so many crime problems. Tax the drugs and sell it. This way, you get rid of gang wars over drugs, drug murders, etc. An unfortunate consequence of this could be that many addicts will die but I can live with that.

Puerto Ricans really need to get off their high horse and realize that they are no better than any other country. For god's sake, we are just humans living in a small rock that orbits the Sun of the Solar System, floating in space around the Milky Way Galaxy, one of BILLIONS of galaxies in the Universe. We are small in this Universe. Why have such an egocentric (almost compared to religion IMO) view of the place you were born. It just doesn't make sense in my mind.

Finally, improve education. English is the language of globalization and they don't encourage it's learning enough around here.

But, to be honest. It's a very long shot for this to ever happen in my lifetime. So I'm not gonna sit around waiting. It's all about your personal "Life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness". When I have the chance, I'll move again to the mainland and try to have a better life for myself.

This is one of the better responses I have come across, very honest and with out really ranting about things I really appreciate you taken time to respond. I have often been stating that political parties in Puerto Rico are in unison in regards to the social progress of PR, there is very little off action to better the social conditions, everyone seems to just tell people they have a plan then implementing one. Even PIP(Puerto Rico Independence Party) often the symbol of independence, is part of the electoral votes based on just that giving a symbol that there is still an independence movement, but I do no agree with most of what they say or do. Unfortunately party affiliation is a world wide thing, but in Puerto Rico is very obvious since it seems that the train called “commonwealth” stopped functioning sometime in 1960’s.
I wonder if US will really grant Puerto Ricans, a legal binding referendum one that does not have no strings or anything like that. My question is that if you give Puerto Ricans full fledge referendum, would they based their vote on what is best for the island or based their vote on fear of loosing benefits/welfare. I would lean on the latter, but that is what is been force upon those who collect benefits.
Also I found an article that speaks of the same about PR having a large government or in other words excessive government; I also came across an article on Washington times that single out Puerto Rico as one of the most corrupted territories of the US including other unincorporated territories, and the 48 continental states, and it ranked PR as the 11th most corrected. I live in the US, and time after time the media seems to get a hold of the bad press Puerto Rico tends to offer, and follow with smart remarks of why the US still in possession of the territory. The transition from PR to the US, is not one that is painted as rosy colors, I remember when I arrived here in the US. It was culture shock for me, from palm trees to broken down buildings, from clean beaches to over crowded un-sanitized train carts, and I did not come in 1960’s or was part of operation boot strap. I came here in late 1980’s as a young kid, and even though much improvements. That transition from PR to US, isn’t as easy as some of the statehooders make it seem. Then same time there is ample opportunities here in the states.
Its funny when you mention drug ban, sometime long time ago Singapore actually had some type of agreement with crime lords. From the story I have read, in order to decrease crime in Singapore, the government allowed for crime lords to sell drugs and they actually taxed them as well, little by little drug lords just did not see a lucrative market so some of them decided to stop selling drugs. I believe that history channel also covered that story when they had the Singapore documentary.
Lastly, I often emphasized how important education is, few posts ago in this same topic I asked another poster who is considered the first father of the independence movement in Puerto Rico. He gave a good answer, I belive most people would give the name bentances, but the answer is actually not bentances. My point of the question was not to embarrass anyone, but to see how far or deep has the educational system in Puerto Rico has taken us. And the last few years, I personally have learned things I never knew about PR, and when I educate people who are in their 40’s and 50’s, they also learn things that was never taught. There is no question that our education system is based on a colonial system. That needs to change, and I am hoping that I can implement some of my ideas. When most of the population is not aware that the PR flag was outlawed from 1898 to 1952, it seems that the system is only educating what they only want you to learn. I am telling you; sometimes I believe that the movie matrix found inspiration in PR then other way around. And finally about the education system, I also believe that teachers will teach courses based on opinion of our history and based on their political affiliation. You sit down with a teacher who is affiliated with PNP,PPD,PIP and you will get 3 different ways to teach one course.
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Old 03-30-2010, 09:06 PM
4,284 posts, read 14,639,872 times
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Stick to discussing/debating in a civil manner and save the personal comments for when you meet face-to-face.
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Old 04-18-2010, 12:44 AM
3,806 posts, read 5,355,992 times
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American with no ties to Puerto Rico here. I'm all for Congress forcing a plebiscite with the only choices being statehood on Puerto Rico and any other civilian inhabited nonstate that's been part of the US longer than Alaska was when it was gained statehood other than DC which IMO can either have the capital and stay DC or give it up and revert back to being part of Maryland. I'm not going to runoff to wikipedia here so IIRC that was around 90 years. You should be able to decide if you want to join up or go it alone by that point.

A big problem I didn't see voiced here is Puerto Rican statehood would likely give the Democrats a lock on the Presidency for the foreseeable future barring Texas exercising its right to split into up to 5 states without Congressional approval. However, most of the Pacific territories tend to elect Republicans or candidates from local parties that identify more with the Republicans which would balance this out somewhat since they'd each get 3 votes in the EC while PR would only get around 9 based on the numbers I last saw.

Folks are saying Puerto Rico could not be independent, but I think they would better express their opinion by saying Puerto Rico could not likely be a wealthy or powerful independent nation. Haiti's an independent nation for crying out loud, and surely even in the worst possible scenarios an independent Puerto Rico would be significantly better off than Haiti. Now I'm in the camp that Puerto Rico wouldn't be a wealthy or important island nation because it is small. At this point in history the wealthy and powerful island nations seem to exist largely on really big islands (UK, Japan, New Zealand), and even big islands are not certain (Cuba, the Philippines, Madagascar).

Singapore does sit on a chokepoint for global maritime trade so it actually has a pretty good resource.
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Old 04-25-2010, 12:27 PM
177 posts, read 232,911 times
Reputation: 94
It will be a cold day in hell before the US gives up PR.

The Puerto Rican, or as I prefer - Taino - Borikua, we are a people who lost our true identity. We believe what everyone else tells us about ourselves and have forgotten that we are not "property".

The term commonwealth means that we are an advantage of the US. Owning us is an advantage for them. Our land has been raped of all it had to give. The wealth of this island was in the precious metals, stones and minerals in our possession at the time when the savage beast called Columbus landed on our shores.

Those precious metals, stones and minerals financed the Vatican's takeover of the "New World". If you look at the ceiling of the Vatican, you will see the riches of "Puerto Rico", as it was used to adorn it.

So if the Vatican used these riches to spread itself around the world, how much do you think is the monetary value of what we once had on our island?

The catholic church is a curse to the world and the people of PR should denounce it. It is not the Word of God, but the influence of satan.

On its ceilings is the wealth of our people. We are poor and dependent today while our economic strength adorns their house of pedophiles.
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Old 04-26-2010, 12:34 PM
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I believe that Singapore is not the only island that have a high GDP, you have Islands like Brunei, or the providence of China Hong Kong in which is in a better situation under China then PR under United States. Even Tawain to certain extent has showed how to still be able to maintain a descent economy with out hardly resources. Even to a certain extent an island with less population, but yet is doing much better then PR. Is the island of Cyprus. By now one would think that PR would look more like Hong Kong then anything, corruption and the ineptitude of politicians in PR thrives PR to the brink of tax payers money been wasted.
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Old 04-26-2010, 01:19 PM
46 posts, read 131,098 times
Reputation: 49
Same thinking of my college professors in the 70s, and STILL same personal thinking now in 2010. Very well said. There is nothing else to be said! - And yes, I also left PR for the mainland.

Originally Posted by hindsight2020 View Post
Um, I come from a pro-statehood family, but even I must recognize the reasons PR will never become a state and the intricacies that make such a proposition a pipedream. PR and Mississippi are must certainly comparable. PR is a densely populated island, with a lot of brain drain going on. There are more second generation PR folk in the mainland than there are Puerto Ricans in the island. Mississippi has a problem with education levels and industry, which is exactly the same as Puerto Rico's problem. PR doesn't need to become a state to derive tax incentives to bring industries in, but PR has a TOUGH case to pitch to Corporate America when it comes to production costs given that doing business in an island increases costs across the board. Mississippi has a boatload of land and the mainland connectivity of being inside the continental US, putting it at a much greater advantage than Puerto Rico from a business perspective.

Look, the business model has been tried before. The only reason leading edge industry would invest in Puerto Rico is for the tax advantage, but that's not really an advantage to Puerto Rico long-term, which is why it went away (google seccion 936). As to federal funding, PR is the poster child for welfare state and consumption junction. It's the epitomy of a false service-based economy with the number #1 employer being the government and its highest operating cost being payroll.

As to the HI comparison, Hawaii ain't doing that great either on that [economic] front, the main industry is tourism, and as a state, HI has the highest percentage of government contribution to the gross state product (21%) when compared to the other 49. This is NOT a coincidence; PR would MIRROR HI's economic architecture to a T if it would become a state, and if there is something PR would surpass above HI it would be government employment numbers. Not exactly a case for positives. Puerto Rico has way more competition than HI on the tourism front, and as opposed to Hawaii's economic identity, Puerto Ricans in the island do not view themselves as this tourism-slaved populace of warm welcoming servants, they view themselves as entitled american citizens above the caribbean froth, deserving of high tech and cubicle jobs in spite of the clear absence of indsutry to support such an entitlement, which is WHY most educated people are employed in government pushing paper, or (such as myself) left for the mainland. Good bad or indifferent, that is the reality for the educated class in PR, which is still the minority per capita when compared to the 50 states. So yes, I too would like to see PR become a state and shed its colonial false national identity shackles that keep most people down there DUMB and dispossessed, but I do not tout it as the automatic economic salvation of the island. Furthermore, from a mainlander perspective I can come up with a dozen economic reasons why it doesn't make sense to incorporate the island into the union. The entitlements would go through the roof under congressional voting power, and in the end that will do nothing to help the rest of the country. Selfish? Perhaps, but it's the economic truth.

So let's do the math. A population with cultural and national identity hangups kept ignorant by the minority burgeouise class that pushes the national identity agenda on the indigent (i.e. the whole damn island) and an American Congress with 2,057 freggin' economic incentives from both parties to NOT touch that subject with a 10-foot pole, and 100 years of historical inertia thrown in there for good measure...equals PR statehood AND independence as a pipedream. The island's timing to do the statehood thing was late 40s and 1950 at the most, they missed their chance, HI didn't.

Independence will never happen. Economically it would be a disaster, and PR is ALREADY an economic disaster. This rubs some pro-independence people down there the wrong way, but they have their neighbor to argue that; most people would do a re-enactment of the fall of Saigon the second that island becomes independent. Those days are over, the island will never become independent, it will remain a colony in my estimation. Statehood would be economically marginally beneficial to the island, but it wouldn't save it from its ills overnight. Problem is that most people in the CONUS have NO incentives to make PR the 51st state and do recognize the average's Puerto Rican's national identity sentiment of ambiguity, which reinforces the idea that they don't want it. It's just not gonna happen. The best a person from PR can hope for is to attain a competitive education to jump ship to the mainland like I did, or remain in the island and accept the opportunity cost of residing in a colony of the US.
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Old 04-26-2010, 07:52 PM
Location: Neither here nor there
14,810 posts, read 14,381,028 times
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No, but the House will be voting on Puerto Rico statehood this week.

Take Action - Tell your Congressman to vote NO on the Puerto Rico Democracy Act (H.R. 2499) today!
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Old 04-27-2010, 07:20 AM
43 posts, read 87,314 times
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Originally Posted by Cunucu Beach View Post
No, but the House will be voting on Puerto Rico statehood this week.

Take Action - Tell your Congressman to vote NO on the Puerto Rico Democracy Act (H.R. 2499) today!

Now this is the exact same thing I been saying for a long time now, a lot of Puerto Rican politicians specially those who support statehood try to hide the fact that not ALL america is fond of having PR as the 51st state in fact ill go on a limb and say that most would oppose it, my advice to Puerto Rico is why not practice becoming an independent country instead of practicing becoming a state.
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Old 04-27-2010, 09:00 AM
Location: On a Long Island in NY
7,732 posts, read 8,782,353 times
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By now one would think that PR would look more like Hong Kong then anything, corruption and the ineptitude of politicians in PR thrives PR to the brink of tax payers money been wasted.
Hong Kong never had as much internal autonomy as Puerto Rico does. The governors of British territories were (and still are) appointed by the British monarch. Unlike other British territories, Hong Kong did not have a locally elected premier/chief minister. The entire legislative body was appointed by the governor until 1985. The governor's cabinet was entirely made up of British officials until the early 1990s when some locals were appointed by the last governor Chris Patten. In short, Hong Kong's entire present position is due to direct rule ... something Puerto Rico has not had since 1952. All US territories and insular areas have been internally self governing since the 1970s or even earlier as was the case with Puerto Rico.

my advice to Puerto Rico is why not practice becoming an independent country instead of practicing becoming a state.
Because 97% of the population don't want independence. The only people that want independence are the Communist clowns in the FALN and the like groups who are upset that they can't create their "worker's utopia" free of the supposed "evil Gringo imperialists" ... I have news for you my friend, we are not going anywhere anytime soon so you might as well get used to it.
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