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Old 04-27-2010, 01:09 PM
 
43 posts, read 87,257 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WIHS2006 View Post
Hong Kong never had as much internal autonomy as Puerto Rico does. The governors of British territories were (and still are) appointed by the British monarch. Unlike other British territories, Hong Kong did not have a locally elected premier/chief minister. The entire legislative body was appointed by the governor until 1985. The governor's cabinet was entirely made up of British officials until the early 1990s when some locals were appointed by the last governor Chris Patten. In short, Hong Kong's entire present position is due to direct rule ... something Puerto Rico has not had since 1952. All US territories and insular areas have been internally self governing since the 1970s or even earlier as was the case with Puerto Rico.

Because 97% of the population don't want independence. The only people that want independence are the Communist clowns in the FALN and the like groups who are upset that they can't create their "worker's utopia" free of the supposed "evil Gringo imperialists" ... I have news for you my friend, we are not going anywhere anytime soon so you might as well get used to it.

But dont you think Puerto Ricans will get it by now that regardless if they do not want independence that the American tax payer is going to get fed up with this issue. I myself run workshops of how much PR has cost American tax payers, many of whom are just surprises that the billions are pumped into PR. It is interesting the people who has attended my workshops. People always has put the finger on the people of Puerto Rico, what about the American tax payers? why no one is asking them what they want, wouldn't that be the democratic way? all im saying I am not the only one educating the american tax payer on this matter, more American groups are sponsoring self determination then ever. This is not the 1970s or 1980 where the average gringo didn't know jack bones.

Now the gringo is armed with knowledge, and hence this Tea Party groups that are aware of excessive government spending. Like I always said, why not use the funds we get from the US to something productive before some rogue politician forces independence on PR. I know it is bound to happen sooner then later. I always said on this post, and other post online am I the only Puerto Rican who is tired of CNN reporting how the crime rate in PR is high? or Washington times every year running an article on the corruption in PR, or USA today few months back running an article how PR by percentage has more people on welfare then any other state or SEIUs Anna Burger undermining the political system under Luis Fortuno. Or the book that was published few years ago "Pay order to PR". Sooner or later some "Real American" is going to try be a hero and wanting to give back america back to americans.
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Old 04-28-2010, 12:54 AM
 
Location: Chicagoland
4,028 posts, read 6,537,616 times
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Puerto Rico is not a territory, it is a commonwealth.
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Old 04-28-2010, 09:30 AM
 
Location: Scranton
1,384 posts, read 2,799,821 times
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Congress will not give PR independence unilaterally because it is not politically wise. Even if most Americans want to cut PR loose, when they go to the polls, PR is not the most important issue in their minds. However, if Congress cuts PR loose, then PR will be the top issue for Puerto Ricans that live and vote in the USA. In other words, they'll lose the PRican vote, but won't gain American votes.

It's the same issue that has happened with the Cuban embargo. Polls show that most Americans oppose the embargo. But lifting the embargo won't sway the average American one way or the other. However, lifting the embargo will sway the Cuban community in FL against whoever lifts it.
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Old 04-29-2010, 05:39 PM
 
Location: Tijuana Exurbs
4,118 posts, read 10,717,765 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WIHS2006 View Post
Because 97% of the population don't want independence. The only people that want independence are the Communist clowns in the FALN and the like groups who are upset that they can't create their "worker's utopia" free of the supposed "evil Gringo imperialists" ... I have news for you my friend, we are not going anywhere anytime soon so you might as well get used to it.
From my rather casual observations of Puerto Rican politics, the strongest support for PR independence comes from Puerto Ricans who live on the mainland, sometimes even born here. These Puerto Ricans, having grown up in the hot house of NYC and Chicago leftist politics have dreams of attaching to themselves a third world oppressed people's island nation identity, all while continuing to live in the safety and prosperity of a first world, democratic country. The actual wishes of Puerto Ricans who live in Puerto Rico are usually secondary or irrelevant to their political fantasies. Some of these mainland Puerto Ricans have even seriously proposed that those who live on the mainland vote on any statehood/independence referendum even though they no longer live on the island. They want the right to vote in 2 locations, the mainland AND Puerto Rico... I guess they believe that certain privileged people should be entitled to One Man, Two Votes.
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Old 04-30-2010, 11:16 AM
 
Location: Colorado
1,524 posts, read 2,369,269 times
Reputation: 2175
I mean the whole thing is really simple:

If you want Puerto Rico to be independent, either (1) vote for it (failed badly) or (2) go start a revolutionary group, seize hold of Puerto Rico and declare independence (Good Luck). Nobody is going to be persuaded towards PR independence on City Data.
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Old 05-01-2010, 10:52 AM
 
43 posts, read 87,257 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hobbesdj View Post
I mean the whole thing is really simple:

If you want Puerto Rico to be independent, either (1) vote for it (failed badly) or (2) go start a revolutionary group, seize hold of Puerto Rico and declare independence (Good Luck). Nobody is going to be persuaded towards PR independence on City Data.

Time and time, when it comes to this topic I come across many latinos specially Puerto Ricans who has an inferior complex, or people just think that latinos are inferior to the point of not been able to govern their own country. And the thing is that when I see post like this when people tell us we going to fail if we become an independent country, it makes me wonder if people still consider people 2nd class citizens. As I said before, this so call commonwealth is costing tax payers money, in fact US pumped more billions in PR during the year of Hurricane Katrina then New Orleans an american city. That is a sad story. No more tax burden for american tax payers.
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Old 05-03-2010, 09:19 AM
 
Location: DF
758 posts, read 2,003,424 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WIHS2006 View Post
Hong Kong never had as much internal autonomy as Puerto Rico does. The governors of British territories were (and still are) appointed by the British monarch. Unlike other British territories, Hong Kong did not have a locally elected premier/chief minister. The entire legislative body was appointed by the governor until 1985. The governor's cabinet was entirely made up of British officials until the early 1990s when some locals were appointed by the last governor Chris Patten. In short, Hong Kong's entire present position is due to direct rule ... something Puerto Rico has not had since 1952. All US territories and insular areas have been internally self governing since the 1970s or even earlier as was the case with Puerto Rico.
That's a rather simplistic way of looking at it. Are you saying hong kong is succesful because it didn't have local rule and was ruled directly by the british? Why is it that African colonies, or Jamaica or other British colonies don't enjoy the same success as Hong Kong.

There are multiple factors, most important of all is the Chinese work ethic, entrepreneurship and savings rates. Without all this, Hong Kong would have never existed, and it's precisely became of the lack of all this that Puerto Rico is destined for mediocrity. While Chinese people in Hong Kong work an average of 60 hour weeks, save about 40% of their income and push their kids to excel in school... the opposite could be said about PR.

As chacho has said, there is a general disdain for hard work and a sense of entitlement on the island.... and this a prosperous independent nation does not make. I disagree with chacho that the island's natural resources limit it's prosperity though... since Mexico is a country laden with natural resources, and is still pretty poor. The key lies in the country's people. If a nation is innovative, hard-working and smart...it can prosper anywhere with any resources.
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Old 05-04-2010, 02:00 PM
 
43 posts, read 87,257 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joelaldo View Post
That's a rather simplistic way of looking at it. Are you saying hong kong is succesful because it didn't have local rule and was ruled directly by the british? Why is it that African colonies, or Jamaica or other British colonies don't enjoy the same success as Hong Kong.

There are multiple factors, most important of all is the Chinese work ethic, entrepreneurship and savings rates. Without all this, Hong Kong would have never existed, and it's precisely became of the lack of all this that Puerto Rico is destined for mediocrity. While Chinese people in Hong Kong work an average of 60 hour weeks, save about 40% of their income and push their kids to excel in school... the opposite could be said about PR.

As chacho has said, there is a general disdain for hard work and a sense of entitlement on the island.... and this a prosperous independent nation does not make. I disagree with chacho that the island's natural resources limit it's prosperity though... since Mexico is a country laden with natural resources, and is still pretty poor. The key lies in the country's people. If a nation is innovative, hard-working and smart...it can prosper anywhere with any resources.

I will definitely agree with that, the issue in PR is not just only a political issue but a social issue as well. Last few days I have been debating with few PR from the island on why is important that also PR from the US should be aware of the political status in pr, and me personally I was born in PR and lived in the US for quite some time. I am often told by Islanders that it should not be an issue that would matter to PR from the states. And I disagree, I often explain or educate my fellow Puerto Ricans the story of the Irish. One point not that long ago, the Irish were in a similar spot. One point not too distant ago, Irish were consider somewhat of the 2nd class citizens of Europe. When the migration began and many Irish resided in the US they were treated like 3rd class citizens. Even though in Ireland the Irish were involved in m any conflicts for the past 20 years or so, Ireland has prospered as a global leader in todays economy.

Now the story behind the success in Ireland, is that Irish people that live in the US albeit 1st,2nd or 3rd generation are seen as hard working individuals, its no longer the Irish who just enjoys drinking and partying, now is the Irish who are hard working drinking and partying type of people. Now out of no where if you Irish you are respected more now then 20 or 30 years ago, if you are Puerto Rican from the island or born here then you are still treated the same as 2nd class despite been American citizens.

The questions is wether Puerto Ricans from the island are willing to sacrifice for the better instead of allowing the government to continually telling that their country cannot survive with out the US. I say will need to be pro-active about this instead of continue expressing my opinions.
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Old 05-04-2010, 03:00 PM
 
Location: Colorado
1,524 posts, read 2,369,269 times
Reputation: 2175
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Old 05-05-2010, 01:27 PM
 
Location: DF
758 posts, read 2,003,424 times
Reputation: 616
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trucker7 View Post
Congress will not give PR independence unilaterally because it is not politically wise. Even if most Americans want to cut PR loose, when they go to the polls, PR is not the most important issue in their minds. However, if Congress cuts PR loose, then PR will be the top issue for Puerto Ricans that live and vote in the USA. In other words, they'll lose the PRican vote, but won't gain American votes.

It's the same issue that has happened with the Cuban embargo. Polls show that most Americans oppose the embargo. But lifting the embargo won't sway the average American one way or the other. However, lifting the embargo will sway the Cuban community in FL against whoever lifts it.
The only problem with that logic is that Cubans live and dominate in a politically important state, Florida. That state many times is a deciding factor in elections. New York, New Jersey, and Massachussets, the only places where a significant portion of the population os Puerto Rican, is almost always Democrat in the national elections. Yeah, theres a big community in Orlando... but no where near as big or as important as the Cuban community in South Florida.

The rest of the boricuas live scattered throughout the U.S.... and usually go the way of military bases. (I met a bnoricua family in North Pole, AK one time... LOL)

The Puerto Rican voting block in the united states isn't a deciding factor in lawmakers' decision.
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