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Old 01-03-2009, 07:33 AM
 
Location: St Thomas, US Virgin Islands
24,671 posts, read 60,621,316 times
Reputation: 26569

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I don't know whether this would work where your field is concerned but maybe you could look into taking a position with a traveling nurse company. Stateside nurses come here to St Thomas all the time for 3-6 month stints and that sort of situation would certainly give you an idea of whether or not a more permanent move to PR (or to island life in general) would work out for you. Cheers!
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Old 01-03-2009, 10:04 AM
 
1,772 posts, read 4,072,697 times
Reputation: 4740
Quote:
Originally Posted by InNeedOfAnswers View Post
While planning the move, I spent about a year on searching for information about PR. What is amazing is the spectrum of opinions and attitudes you will find out there. There are people who will simply vent at PR and hate it completely. There are people who absolutely love it, but do recognize the downsides. I suppose that much of this discrepancy has to do with the income brackets. From what I have seen and from the people whom I spoke to, it is apparent that if you have reasonable income then your live in PR is not all that bad. Obviously not having money is bad no matter where you live. As an external observer and one that has been to few islands around the world, the social and economic climates can go to extremes due to isolation. This is something that one should expect and must get used to.

Another interesting observation that I made is the fact that people who seem to complain about economy and the way things are in PR never suggest how they are contributing to correcting this problem. At the same token, when someone like myself and trying2gettoPR try to move to PR, we are faced with many walls, for example the language. This is ironic, as we are bringing skills, education, and enthusiasm to help the economy and make the place more comfortable for everyone. I don't expect a red carpet upon my arrival, but what I think would be of a benefit to nation like PR is to make it easy for highly skilled people to migrate in. Few examples of easy migration to PR would be to have excise taxes on vehicles that are part of personal goods moved waved or reduced. To have legal forms in English to make the submission process easier, etc. With time I will learn Spanish, and will embrace PR culture, but some incubation interval would be nice
So which is it? Is the island genuinely screwed up and doesn't help itself (your latter point) or are people just whining at "perceived disparities" in income as the source for problems in the island (your former point)???


Look, your early enthusiasm for wanting to live in perma-77 degree weather does not negate the royal abortion the island is socio-economically and politically. Your mistake is that you minimize and misdiagnose the reasons for which the island is the way it is. It's not a bunch of poor people bitter cause they don't make enough money to live the high life, that's a given since the island is largely indigent. The point is that rich people don't have it much better either, all they can aspire to is to isolate enough to minimize the impact of the general chaos and element prevalent in every corner of the metro area (the heart of the island like it or not), and travel abroad the rest of the time. Not exactly par for the course considering one could attain a higher income in the CONUS and simply geographically travel to a place away from said elements. In the island you cannot. To then suggest that this is just bitter poor people hating on the island shows you have no understanding of the way things are politically down there. The island is POOR by CONUS standards, and a conglomerate of old money families have kept the island poor for their own benefit, feeding the masses down there with the historical national identity ambiguity that's the source of contempt from the rest of Latin America. The PR bourgeoisie have no incentive or care for incentivizing the migration of giddy mainlanders such as yourself with tax rebates and cultural immersion policies. You're a proverbial blip on the radar, and from the perspective of somebody who grew up in the island, you overestimate the opportunity cost of caribbean weather.

PR is a fake economy in a much more critical way than the service economy is in the CONUS. Guess where you fit in the puzzle of the economics of the island? Right smack in the middle of it, providing services for an economy where the government is the biggest employer and 70% of the population falls below the poverty line. My family is not indigent and can clearly see past the awesome weather that a 13 yo boy getting shot to death by drug lieutenants at a gated subdivision last month in suburban bayamon is not "quality of life is on the eye of the beholder". How about having to coup up in your cement house because watching the new year outside is playing russian roulette. How about as of January 3 2009, the year has already registered 4 murders and two armed bank robberies. This is not East St. Louis, IL as you fly over it on the way to grandma, this is next to your car window as you wait on the light on the perma-parking lot we call traffic in the island. How about finding a public night club or pub where shootings haven't rung out, oh that must be one of those opportunity costs that come with the territory you speak of...I could go on. People don't live on the beach all day down there, people struggle to find a job that pays more than 10 bucks and hour down there and everybody and their mother has a bachelor's degree. Secretaries are asked for BA's down there for an hourly job, the market is sooo flooded it's sad. So it's not your desire to bring "highly skilled" people such as yourself that's the eureka moment that's gonna turn it around, people already have access to your education back in the island, it's an endemic problem that has more to do with the economic and political interests of a few that would even consider rich white people from the CONUS beneath them.

I won't even go into your argument that the island economic disparities are due to isolation, as I took a flight this Xmas from Indianapolis to SJU and it with a layover it took me a little over 4 hours, from Indiana...The island geographical condition is but a mere precipitant of the problem not the root cause of the disease (elitist class is).

Let me wrap up my point, and I can't stress this enough. If you think PR QOL is in the eye of the beholder then the somalis plight might be relative too, after all some are alive right now so that's gotta be better than being dead right? The reality is that such a condition is only relative because the conditions by which you rate such experience are different today than what they will be once you live there for a year, hell I give you 6 months. Once you become physically vested to all the opportunity costs I've exemplified in this post, rather than rationalizing them from a computer screen, you'll be able to better price your appreciation for perma-77 degree weather and a cultural niche. I wish you luck and do not to gratuitously wish to discourage you from relocating to the island, but I won't stand idly to the suggestion that these facts of life are in the eye of the beholder, for they are real and affect more people who want to get out and can't than it affects people who want to come in and don't know better.
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Old 01-03-2009, 10:21 AM
 
Location: Puerto Rico
177 posts, read 882,902 times
Reputation: 105
hindsight2020, as always you make excellent points and you are eloquent in their presentation. By no means I called anyone "poor people bitter". Anyway, I don't want to argue anything, but rather presented my initial observation and am learning as I go along.
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Old 01-03-2009, 02:58 PM
 
72 posts, read 172,848 times
Reputation: 43
Quote:
Originally Posted by hindsight2020 View Post
So which is it? Is the island genuinely screwed up and doesn't help itself (your latter point) or are people just whining at "perceived disparities" in income as the source for problems in the island (your former point)???


Look, your early enthusiasm for wanting to live in perma-77 degree weather does not negate the royal abortion the island is socio-economically and politically. Your mistake is that you minimize and misdiagnose the reasons for which the island is the way it is. It's not a bunch of poor people bitter cause they don't make enough money to live the high life, that's a given since the island is largely indigent. The point is that rich people don't have it much better either, all they can aspire to is to isolate enough to minimize the impact of the general chaos and element prevalent in every corner of the metro area (the heart of the island like it or not), and travel abroad the rest of the time. Not exactly par for the course considering one could attain a higher income in the CONUS and simply geographically travel to a place away from said elements. In the island you cannot. To then suggest that this is just bitter poor people hating on the island shows you have no understanding of the way things are politically down there. The island is POOR by CONUS standards, and a conglomerate of old money families have kept the island poor for their own benefit, feeding the masses down there with the historical national identity ambiguity that's the source of contempt from the rest of Latin America. The PR bourgeoisie have no incentive or care for incentivizing the migration of giddy mainlanders such as yourself with tax rebates and cultural immersion policies. You're a proverbial blip on the radar, and from the perspective of somebody who grew up in the island, you overestimate the opportunity cost of caribbean weather.

PR is a fake economy in a much more critical way than the service economy is in the CONUS. Guess where you fit in the puzzle of the economics of the island? Right smack in the middle of it, providing services for an economy where the government is the biggest employer and 70% of the population falls below the poverty line. My family is not indigent and can clearly see past the awesome weather that a 13 yo boy getting shot to death by drug lieutenants at a gated subdivision last month in suburban bayamon is not "quality of life is on the eye of the beholder". How about having to coup up in your cement house because watching the new year outside is playing russian roulette. How about as of January 3 2009, the year has already registered 4 murders and two armed bank robberies. This is not East St. Louis, IL as you fly over it on the way to grandma, this is next to your car window as you wait on the light on the perma-parking lot we call traffic in the island. How about finding a public night club or pub where shootings haven't rung out, oh that must be one of those opportunity costs that come with the territory you speak of...I could go on. People don't live on the beach all day down there, people struggle to find a job that pays more than 10 bucks and hour down there and everybody and their mother has a bachelor's degree. Secretaries are asked for BA's down there for an hourly job, the market is sooo flooded it's sad. So it's not your desire to bring "highly skilled" people such as yourself that's the eureka moment that's gonna turn it around, people already have access to your education back in the island, it's an endemic problem that has more to do with the economic and political interests of a few that would even consider rich white people from the CONUS beneath them.

I won't even go into your argument that the island economic disparities are due to isolation, as I took a flight this Xmas from Indianapolis to SJU and it with a layover it took me a little over 4 hours, from Indiana...The island geographical condition is but a mere precipitant of the problem not the root cause of the disease (elitist class is).

Let me wrap up my point, and I can't stress this enough. If you think PR QOL is in the eye of the beholder then the somalis plight might be relative too, after all some are alive right now so that's gotta be better than being dead right? The reality is that such a condition is only relative because the conditions by which you rate such experience are different today than what they will be once you live there for a year, hell I give you 6 months. Once you become physically vested to all the opportunity costs I've exemplified in this post, rather than rationalizing them from a computer screen, you'll be able to better price your appreciation for perma-77 degree weather and a cultural niche. I wish you luck and do not to gratuitously wish to discourage you from relocating to the island, but I won't stand idly to the suggestion that these facts of life are in the eye of the beholder, for they are real and affect more people who want to get out and can't than it affects people who want to come in and don't know better.
...............Sorry, you lost me at "perma 77, royal abortion", huhh??
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Old 01-03-2009, 06:04 PM
 
2,875 posts, read 3,414,367 times
Reputation: 4339
Hey, to state that Puerto Rico is the paradise it once was would obviously be an exageration. However, although I no longer live on the island, I do visit it once or twice per year and have not seen a place completely rift by crime, vandalism, poverty, drug-use, etc. I know someone will immediately think the obvious..."visiting is one thing; living there is another." That is true. But, to this day I have yet to see first hand any of these societal ills that some here make out to be rampant throughout the island.

When I go there, I know there are certain places where one should not go. I also know the places where I can visit and just feel completely safe amongst locals who do not insulate themselves from daily life. In addition, my old man who is 72 years old has lived a good life there all his life. His side business makes it so that he is out late at night sometimes. He has never been agressed by anyone to my knowledge.

If you go to visit or live in Puerto Rico and look for trouble...you will find it! If you go there and look for peace and tranquility...you will find it! Good luck!
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Old 01-05-2009, 09:25 AM
 
Location: On a Long Island in NY
7,732 posts, read 8,771,689 times
Reputation: 7139
Quote:
Originally Posted by chacho_keva View Post
Hey, to state that Puerto Rico is the paradise it once was would obviously be an exageration. However, although I no longer live on the island, I do visit it once or twice per year and have not seen a place completely rift by crime, vandalism, poverty, drug-use, etc. I know someone will immediately think the obvious..."visiting is one thing; living there is another." That is true. But, to this day I have yet to see first hand any of these societal ills that some here make out to be rampant throughout the island.

When I go there, I know there are certain places where one should not go. I also know the places where I can visit and just feel completely safe amongst locals who do not insulate themselves from daily life. In addition, my old man who is 72 years old has lived a good life there all his life. His side business makes it so that he is out late at night sometimes. He has never been agressed by anyone to my knowledge.

If you go to visit or live in Puerto Rico and look for trouble...you will find it! If you go there and look for peace and tranquility...you will find it! Good luck!
From what I gather most of the crime occurs in and around the major cities of San Juan, Ponce, Arecibo, Mayaguez, etc and especially in the San Juan metropolitan area.

http://www.gobierno.pr/NR/rdonlyres/...S2007final.pdf
http://www.gobierno.pr/NR/rdonlyres/...iembre2008.pdf

^ 2 crime charts from the State Police website. As you can tell most crime is in the more populated cities.

The only glaring negative thing I have seen is the poverty.
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Old 01-05-2009, 08:52 PM
 
Location: Puerto Rico
32 posts, read 96,946 times
Reputation: 30
The west area (Area of Mayaguez) have the less crimes in Puerto Rico, as I can see on the statistics of the Police of Puerto Rico.
The Cabo Rojo municipality is a city only 10 to 15 minutes away from Mayaguez, and also have their comerces. And is very calm.

http://www.gobierno.pr/NR/rdonlyres/...iembre2008.pdf
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Old 01-05-2009, 10:21 PM
 
2,875 posts, read 3,414,367 times
Reputation: 4339
Hi guys! Every trip I've made to Puerto Rico in the last 5 years, have always included a two to four day stay in the town of Isabela, more specifically an area known as Villa Pesquera. I have not felt more at home than I have in this place. The people and location make this place very tranquil. Shorts, tee-shirts, sandals and the sharing of food and beer with total strangers will make anyone feel like right at home.

In 2008, I visited Culebra for the first time. I was taken aback by the fact that there are no mega-resorts, no fast food restaurants, and no traffic lights on the entire island. However, there are plenty of white sand beaches as lazy waves make their way on to the shore. I also found a gamut of foreigners who've decided to make this island paradise their longterm stop. Ask me if I was worried about the ills some have mentioned in this post!!!
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Old 01-13-2009, 08:49 PM
 
9 posts, read 67,259 times
Reputation: 14
Listen, moving to PR for a non-spanish speaking person can be difficult. But the same thing happens when a lot of latinos who dont speak english and still are able to make a life and progress in the mainland US. So yes, language is a barrier, if you are willing to learn the language and practice it, you are going to get it. You dont have to speak a perfect spanish, just enough to survive (like me.. I dont consider myself as fully bilingual, but I'm able to speak and write enough english to work for the federal government here in the mainland US)... Just dont be arrogant like some other mainlanders who come to PR from the US with a believe of superiority. Be nice and down to earth and you will find friends that will help you.. look on the local newspapers for jobs (endi.com).. meet people from the island. Your attitude will determine how far you can go...Good luck..Any questions, let me know.
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Old 01-14-2009, 11:58 PM
 
1,772 posts, read 4,072,697 times
Reputation: 4740
Quote:
Originally Posted by wizard26 View Post
Listen, moving to PR for a non-spanish speaking person can be difficult. But the same thing happens when a lot of latinos who dont speak english and still are able to make a life and progress in the mainland US. So yes, language is a barrier, if you are willing to learn the language and practice it, you are going to get it. You dont have to speak a perfect spanish, just enough to survive (like me.. I dont consider myself as fully bilingual, but I'm able to speak and write enough english to work for the federal government here in the mainland US)... Just dont be arrogant like some other mainlanders who come to PR from the US with a believe of superiority. Be nice and down to earth and you will find friends that will help you.. look on the local newspapers for jobs (endi.com).. meet people from the island. Your attitude will determine how far you can go...Good luck..Any questions, let me know.
You know, the ironic thing about that statement is that it is Puerto Ricans who go to college in the states JUST to return to the island, and not the mainlanders seeking to relocate, that give people from the CONUS the reputation for having the stated sense of superiority (due to being bilingual and better traveled). Classism is not just a mainland thing, it's alive and well in the island.
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