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Old 07-05-2009, 11:08 AM
 
4 posts, read 18,559 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hindsight2020 View Post
You have to overhaul the way Puerto Ricans define themselves in the context of their US citizenship. This is to say, you have to open the island up to the educational and business opportunities the mainland offers. This entails dispossessing the PR ruling class from their ability to define for the average puerto rican what it means to be one. Bi-culturalism has to be pushed forth as a value-adding trait, and not as cultural suicide as it is currently portrayed. Bi-lingualism has to be embraced by the median puerto rican in the same capacity, a value-adding trait, not cultural suicide.

The most logical conclusion for this outcome on a macro level would be statehood, but said outcome is unlikely right off the chute since there is no incentive for the CONUS to entertain it and there is a cultural dead-lock in the island for it. What needs to happen is the administration needs to go after the tentacles of the octopus before going for its head. This means re-incentivizing mainland industries to do business in the island, refocus the budget from the current one trick pony of putting everybody on the govt payroll and more into a CONUS-centric educational system aimed at highlighting the importance of bilingual proficiency and more exchanges with CONUS universities at the college level. The reason puerto ricans don't feel american is quite literally because the majority thinks of the mainland as a far away land that neither understands them nor represents them. These educational gap fills would change that perception and provide access to the median puerto rican to the idea that the CONUS is not just for the PR elite but rather it is accessible to all those who possess the mere DESIRE to change their condition. You get the majority of college graduates from UPR to adopt this bi-cultural mentality and you would be amazed at the social progress the island can achieve in 10 years.

Furthermore, environmentalists in the island need to be squashed. They are pawns of the PR elite. They promote anti-business agendas that keep the average puerto rican poor and uneducated. They accomplish this by vilifying progressive business and offer the preservation of a 'pristine' island preserved in a time capsule as an inherently valuable pursuit. This is nonsense and needs to be reversed. Folklore doesn't feed a civilization, progress does. There needs to be a counter-culture thinking group of young people that rebuke the environmentalist mantra that being pro-American and respecting one's culture is a mutually exclusive affair. The PR elite is of course at the center of this vendetta. They need to be confronted and challenged.

Finally, puerto ricans from the CONUS (second generation and beyond) need to butt out. They keep a nostalgic view of the island that does nothing to help Puerto Rico progress. It's quite selfish really. All they care about is superfluous talk about folkloric food and music, while disingenuously asserting that they "would love to retire in PR". Nonsense. If PR was good enough for them they would have made the jump already. The reality of the matter is that Ricans from the CONUS love the idea of visiting the island and telling their white friends back home that they have more to their cultural identity than a "plain white anglo-saxon" 200 year old vaguely defined cultural context that they accuse said white friends of having. Same goes for African Americans. Wake the heck up. You're not an island native, you are not vested in the idiosyncrasies of that place and therefore you are in no position to assert that cultural homogeneity (your freggin' affection for 'tostones y lechón asaó') is of more importance that the economic and social progress of 4 million people stuck in a self-appointed rejection of their ability to better their condition for a worthless irrelevancy like a beauty pageant or olympic team representation. If American progress was good enough for you it's good enough for them too.

This is how you make it happen. Will it happen? Unlikely. Which is why I left. I have bigger horizons to travel than to watch myself waste away trying to help people who don't want to help themselves.

In a way I agree with you, I'm a native from Puerto Rico living in the main land. Living here is as hard as living in any other country. The People in PR want change, but not many do or try to do something about it. About citizenship is like any other territory of the US. We are native spanish speakers therefore that is what we choose to speak. Every school teach the English language since kindergarten in fact I find the education in Puerto Rico more complete than here in the US. Here in the US (most of the areas) they wait until you are in High School to teach or to offer you another language as an elective class.
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Old 07-07-2009, 04:02 PM
 
Location: Centro Tejas
543 posts, read 894,328 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by beenthere65 View Post
I worked with Puerto Ricans in Florida and they weren't friendly and stuck together. Rarely got them to smile! What is it with Puerto Ricans? Are they that unworldly or racist? Other nationalities are really friendly. I found this unnerving. If they can't be American friendly, stay in PR!
I am NOT like that!!!!

I tend to be quite anti social, but I always smile and salute people no matter who they are. Maybe those Puerto Ricans were from NYC or San Juan; people from those places tend to be very acid. I bet if they were from a smaller city from PR or another state, they'd be friendlier.

Ah, since I moved to Virginia I haven't made friends with other Puerto Ricans or Latin/Hispanic people, but with WASP people.
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Old 07-07-2009, 10:09 PM
 
Location: Bronx, NY
4,476 posts, read 8,632,930 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jay_jay26 View Post
I am NOT like that!!!!

I tend to be quite anti social, but I always smile and salute people no matter who they are. Maybe those Puerto Ricans were from NYC or San Juan; people from those places tend to be very acid. I bet if they were from a smaller city from PR or another state, they'd be friendlier.

Ah, since I moved to Virginia I haven't made friends with other Puerto Ricans or Latin/Hispanic people, but with WASP people.
LOL why do they have to be from NYC? Puerto Ricans in every state act different. And in FL there are a lot of Puerto Ricans that are from FL.
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Old 07-07-2009, 10:11 PM
 
Location: Bronx, NY
4,476 posts, read 8,632,930 times
Reputation: 5530
Quote:
Originally Posted by beenthere65 View Post
I worked with Puerto Ricans in Florida and they weren't friendly and stuck together. Rarely got them to smile! What is it with Puerto Ricans? Are they that unworldly or racist? Other nationalities are really friendly. I found this unnerving. If they can't be American friendly, stay in PR!
Not all Puerto Ricans are the same. Maybe those that are in FL are like that. Puerto Ricans act different in every state... So not all are the same.
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Old 07-14-2009, 03:18 PM
 
709 posts, read 1,606,874 times
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Quote:
"Quality of life" is subjective. There are plenty of people living very comfortable lives in Old San Juan, Guaynabo, Dorado... in those places quality of life is just as good or better than most places on the mainland.
If the quality of life in Puerto Rico is so great than why are there more Puerto Ricans living in the mainland than there are in Puerto Rico. I have been to Puerto Rico before and it does not exactly resemble a 1st world country.

Even the poorest state in the mainland, Mississippi has a higher per capita income than Puerto Rico.

If Switzerland was a territory of the United States, I doubt there would be more Swiss living in the mainland than in Switzerland. That is because the quality of life in Switzerland is extremely good for the overwhelming majority of the population that lives there.
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Old 07-14-2009, 07:57 PM
 
1,084 posts, read 3,533,920 times
Reputation: 340
Quote:
Originally Posted by John McClane View Post
If the quality of life in Puerto Rico is so great than why are there more Puerto Ricans living in the mainland than there are in Puerto Rico. I have been to Puerto Rico before and it does not exactly resemble a 1st world country.

Even the poorest state in the mainland, Mississippi has a higher per capita income than Puerto Rico.

If Switzerland was a territory of the United States, I doubt there would be more Swiss living in the mainland than in Switzerland. That is because the quality of life in Switzerland is extremely good for the overwhelming majority of the population that lives there.

should look at city and county per capita income, not state as many U.S cities have a 3rd world per capita income.
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Old 08-12-2009, 01:30 AM
 
Location: Between a rock and a hard place.
445 posts, read 977,855 times
Reputation: 278
Quote:
Originally Posted by SobroGuy View Post
When people speak of "PR transformed itself to this/that/whatever" the reality is PR did no such thing..the US dictates what happened, what is happening, and what will happen. If you believe PR transformed into a welfare state, you will have no argument from me. But to assert that PR transformed itself, or otherwise made a decision in its own interest without the OK from the boss (US..and Spain for that matter) over the last 500 years would show profound denial (and possible ignorance) of the reality of PR, its role in the US, and its history over the last 500 years of existence. PR is nothing more than a spoil of the war, and was treated as such. The US never intended to embrace the country, or somehow make it anything other than what it is today. It was developed completely and solely to serve the interests of its owner, the US...the rightful owner per the end of the war...Spain treated it no differently so why should the US? Hindsight, I agree that the elite class, like the elite class in the US, are playing the same games: They are benefiting from the promotion of a false sense of self, and draw power by keeping people focused on a singular (and misguided) evil: the US. However, maybe now you understand why there is SOME resistance to the US, as slaves usually have animosity towards their owners, and at the end of the day, PR, since its inception, has been enslaved.
Well said, and good points!
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Old 08-18-2009, 01:10 PM
ncc
 
95 posts, read 275,967 times
Reputation: 62
Quote:
Originally Posted by MuscogeeButterfly View Post
Well said, and good points!

I'm really interested on what Puerto Ricans can't do in their lives because of the U.S?
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Old 08-21-2009, 07:04 PM
 
74 posts, read 264,182 times
Reputation: 82
^Make economic treaties with other nations. For example, PR. is going to miss the China money boat. Panama and Costa Rica are going to make Mandarin obligatory in schools since China is increasing economic ties with those nation. So they will get the China trade. Heard Chinese were thinking of making PR. regional hub for distribution but seems nothing came of that. Unless PR. is able to make treaties with foreign nations PR. will keep on losing business to less prepared nations in the region.

And lets talk about Mangos. There is a US law that requires PR. to mainly use US flagged cargo ships. A few years ago in PR. there was a shipment of Mangos waiting on the dock to be shipped to europe. A US flagged ship came into port but it was already full of cargo so they could only take part of the shipment. So unless a ship was found the mangos would rot on the pier. They were bound for Europe.

Funny thing is the port could have been full of empty foreign ships heading for Europe but unless it was a US flagged ship the cargo could not be loaded onto the ship.

They did manage to save the rest of the Mangos. They did it by sending the containers full of Mangoes by ship to the Dominican Republic which is next to PR. From there they were shipped on whatever foreign ship was available to Europe. They say this unfair monopolistic law is responsible for making items 25% to 30% more expensive for the people in PR. and for our exports.

And this NAFTA treaty gives Mexico and Canada certain rights which PR. does not have. Also, US NAFTA and CAFTA treaties which are treaties on trade between the US and those nations might be good for the US but not always good for PR.. But PR. has no choice.

Read this if you have the time: Powered by Google Docs
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Old 08-22-2009, 01:15 PM
ncc
 
95 posts, read 275,967 times
Reputation: 62
Quote:
Originally Posted by InNeedOfAnswers View Post
That sounds good. I am all for independence if people want it, but I have lived through one such system change and it is not pretty if things are not done well. You should not think that if PR becomes independent then corporations will somehow start obeying and play by the rules. From my experience, corporations often find a way to influence the change of government and take steps to further improve their standing to emerge stronger and even more influential than in the prior state. Ask your self, who will have the capital after PR becomes independent? It is these global corporations who will wave big checks in front of the newly formed government that is starving for financial resources. In these and similar forums people often give examples of what went well after becoming independent, but remember that there are plenty of examples of what went wrong after gaining independent. Take a look at the neighboring Carib nations, almost entire Eastern Post-Soviet Block, many post colonial nations in Asia, and almost all of Africa. Things can go horribly and irreversibly wrong if independence movement is not being planned carefully. This is especially true since, at least now, USA is not militarily hostile towards PR. If you have smart parents then why not hear what they have to say?

I don't claim to know all, I don't claim to understand everything, but I have lived in few places around the globe, and I have seen history being made. On my own skin I tell you that not all change is for the better! What you will do with these words is up to you, but keep them as a waring that passion has consequences.
They haven't been too smart lately!! Independence is great, but for a small island in the caribbean with 4 million people, that's a fantasy! It's financially impossible to cutoff the funds and entitlements to an island that depends on it. If that were to happen there would be major uprisings and dangerous revolts.

What is so special and appealing about P.R that other Caribbean islands don't possess?? Seriously, what would P.R have to offer, that the rest of the world would want? If there's a legitamate answer, then I'll say great, act on it! Haiti and the D.R. have been independent for a while. One-tenth of D.R's GDP is from the Dominicans in the U.S that send money there, and don't haitians and dominicans emigrate to PR? And Haiti?? I wouldn't know where to start that conversation. It's funny how some people blame everything on evil U.S, but yet there's people crawling through holes, swimming across rivers, and paddling on make-shift rafts to get there. I can't think of any other country in the world that would create a desire in people to do that. I'm not saying that the U.S doesn't have any faults when it comes to the problems of P.R., but imagine what P.R what look like if it were never part of the U.S. Instead, look at the Government in P.R. what the hell are they doing, and what have they ever done for the people? Any government that wants to increase the size of the government is a danger to the people and to the economy. Do you really think if P.R became Independent, the P.R elite (government) would say "okay, power to the people now"? Creating jobs in the government to decrease unemployment is an illusion. Something has do pay that enormous payroll. Taxes and U.S funds. Sales tax (state and local), liquor tax, etc has an effect on people everyday.

If the P.R government really cared about the people they would slowly decrease government jobs to a minimum (which are really worthless), promote a business friendly environment that fosters competition, creativity, and employment. Secondly, develop a school system that is truly billigual (just like private schools in P.R) and efficient. This doesn't mean the P.R culture is going to change. God-forbid if kids know 2 languages. You would still have to freedom to talk whatever language you want. Public school is not free, nothing is ever free! How do you think schools in the U.S are funded. Property taxes! I don't think that parents would mind paying for a quality school system. Kids should come first, not LCD tv's, ipods, designer clothes, etc.

I could write all day but lastly, tourism. The Caribbean is a mecca for vacations, but there's alot of islands to choose from, so why PR? I see commercials all the time for the caribbean, everyone is the same, nice weather, nice beaches, etc. I think the only enticing incentive is no passport required, domestic flight. (american market) on the PR commercial. I read the first hotel in 10yrs isopening in Dec. What kind of BS is that?? Hotels and resorts create jobs and make money. Tourism plays a huge role in a Caribbean Island's economy so why not develop it to the fullest?
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