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Old 05-26-2009, 10:50 PM
 
Location: Bronx, NY
4,476 posts, read 8,632,056 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sunil's Dad View Post
The Mets have 5 players from Puerto Rico and one who is PR but US born. One Cuban and three Venezuelans as well.
Thank you for clearing this up to others
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Old 06-04-2009, 12:08 AM
 
Location: Denver, CO
20 posts, read 47,992 times
Reputation: 34
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sunil's Dad View Post
The Mets have 5 players from Puerto Rico and one who is PR but US born. One Cuban and three Venezuelans as well.
Yes, because the Mets General Manager (Omar Minaya) has acquired players of Hispanic descent like it's going out of style. People call them "Los Mets" for a reason.

There are currently 31 position players and 8 pitchers born in PR on MLB rosters. That's 39 PR-born players for 30 MLB teams. Most are role players at best (of the 31 position players, only 13 have 1000 or more PA - roughly two seasons of full-time play). In MLB history, there have been 227 players who appeared in the majors who were born in PR. For comparison, there have been 480 who were born in the DR and 1,906 who were born in California.

It's also interesting that the OP mentioned the great love and enthusiasm for the game that exists in PR. While that certainly may exist, it simply doesn't translate into attendance, which is what a MLB team would need.

The OP points to Oakland as one of the "poor performing (in terms of seats)" teams that might move. Indeed, as his link shows, Oakland is second-to-last in terms of home attendance, drawing only 17,869 people per home game. It's very easy to say that the love and enthusiasm for the game that exists in PR would mean more than that 17,869 would attend home games in PR, but the facts clearly show otherwise.

Someone mentioned the time the Expos played in PR and said "The former Montreal Expos did played some games in PR a few years back, and boy did the fans came out." In truth, however, MLB tracks such things as how the fans came out, and the came out in PR considerably less than they do in the "poor performing" Oakland.

The Expos, prior to moving to Washington, D.C. and becoming the Nationals, played a significant number of games in PR over the course of 2 seasons. In the first season, with a great deal of fanfare, media coverage, and excitement, home games in PR averaged 14,271 fans per game. Home games in PR drew more than the "average" Oakland crowd only 6 times out of 22.

The next season, when the novelty wore off, the crowds shrank even more. In 21 games, the home crowds in PR reached the "average" Oakland crowd exactly zero times. In 13 of the 21 games, the crowd was less than 9,000 people.

So, really, you still think PR should have a MLB team?
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Old 06-05-2009, 02:27 PM
 
Location: Philly
10,029 posts, read 14,493,535 times
Reputation: 2774
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zalman B View Post
There are currently 31 position players and 8 pitchers born in PR on MLB rosters. That's 39 PR-born players for 30 MLB teams. Most are role players at best (of the 31 position players, only 13 have 1000 or more PA - roughly two seasons of full-time play). In MLB history, there have been 227 players who appeared in the majors who were born in PR. For comparison, there have been 480 who were born in the DR and 1,906 who were born in California.
and california has more than ten times the population. that would mean if PR had the same population, there would be over 2300 players from Puerto Rico and 1800 from DR.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zalman B View Post
While that certainly may exist, it simply doesn't translate into attendance, which is what a MLB team would need.
I think you meant to say, it doesn't necessarily translate to attendance. Based on on the expos preseason, it appears likely attendance would be adequate.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zalman B View Post
The OP points to Oakland as one of the "poor performing (in terms of seats)" teams that might move. Indeed, as his link shows, Oakland is second-to-last in terms of home attendance, drawing only 17,869 people per home game. It's very easy to say that the love and enthusiasm for the game that exists in PR would mean more than that 17,869 would attend home games in PR, but the facts clearly show otherwise.
what facts are you talking about? you've cited no facts one way or the other.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zalman B View Post
Someone mentioned the time the Expos played in PR and said "The former Montreal Expos did played some games in PR a few years back, and boy did the fans came out." In truth, however, MLB tracks such things as how the fans came out, and the came out in PR considerably less than they do in the "poor performing" Oakland.
another sleight of hand here. comparing regular season stats of a permanent team to rpeseason stats of a temporary team is, at best, apples to oranges. Oakland was suggested both because it was poorly performing (a fact) and because there was another team nearby (the Giants). It doesn't HAVE to be Oakland, that's really besidess the point. at any rate, you're own stats indicate signifcant variance for year to year and from which team was playing. 2003 is reasonably good attendance.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zalman B View Post
The Expos, prior to moving to Washington, D.C. and becoming the Nationals, played a significant number of games in PR over the course of 2 seasons. In the first season, with a great deal of fanfare, media coverage, and excitement, home games in PR averaged 14,271 fans per game. Home games in PR drew more than the "average" Oakland crowd only 6 times out of 22.

The next season, when the novelty wore off, the crowds shrank even more. In 21 games, the home crowds in PR reached the "average" Oakland crowd exactly zero times. In 13 of the 21 games, the crowd was less than 9,000 people.
certainly it's relevant but one needs to take into consideration that it wasn't san juan's team, it was there irregularly, and by then itw as clear the team was headed elsewhere

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zalman B View Post
So, really, you still think PR should have a MLB team?
yes. Although I appreciate your statistics, I don't see it as quite the complete anaylsis that you do. the team could very well pull from DR as well.
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Old 06-05-2009, 02:55 PM
 
511 posts, read 1,605,808 times
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As a Boston Red Sox fan, I would object to a team in the PR not because of the lack of fan enthusiasm, but because, with my luck, the PR team would be a part of the AL East which require the Red Sox to endure 8 or 9 games traveling farther than the other AL East games are.

You never know, I wonder if Mexico would be a good candidate too.
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Old 06-05-2009, 05:22 PM
 
Location: Denver, CO
20 posts, read 47,992 times
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Check again pman, there is no sleight of hand - those weren't "preseason" games. The games the Expos played were regular season games against other MLB teams.

They counted in the standings the same as any other. Further, the decision to move the Expos to D.C. wasn't announced until nearly the end of the 2004 season - after the vast majority of the games in PR had been played.

Oh, and obviously CA has far more people and so more baseball players, I was simply responding to the asinine argument that "there are so many PR MLB baseball players (39!) that we should have our own MLB team."
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Old 06-05-2009, 07:40 PM
 
Location: Philly
10,029 posts, read 14,493,535 times
Reputation: 2774
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zalman B View Post
Check again pman, there is no sleight of hand - those weren't "preseason" games. The games the Expos played were regular season games against other MLB teams.
It was still montreal. come to think of it, maybe it should be pittsburgh's team. the carribean pirates could work. nonetheless, the point's the same. comparing a part time team belonging to someone else to a full time team that's had a chance to become part of the city is quite different. Look at the phillies, formerly at the bottom of attendance now they're at the top after years of wooing fans with a nice stadium and wining teams.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zalman B View Post
They counted in the standings the same as any other. Further, the decision to move the Expos to D.C. wasn't announced until nearly the end of the 2004 season - after the vast majority of the games in PR had been played.
except that it was known that the fix was in long before it was announced.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zalman B View Post
Oh, and obviously CA has far more people and so more baseball players, I was simply responding to the asinine argument that "there are so many PR MLB baseball players (39!) that we should have our own MLB team."
it was an asinine point and totally irrelevant. not sure why you think that people liking the sport isn't a reason PR should be considered. seems like pretty stupid logic to me.
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Old 06-05-2009, 07:47 PM
 
Location: Philly
10,029 posts, read 14,493,535 times
Reputation: 2774
Quote:
Originally Posted by metaljaybird View Post
As a Boston Red Sox fan, I would object to a team in the PR not because of the lack of fan enthusiasm, but because, with my luck, the PR team would be a part of the AL East which require the Red Sox to endure 8 or 9 games traveling farther than the other AL East games are.

You never know, I wonder if Mexico would be a good candidate too.
as a phillies fan I'd take it in exchange for less west coast games. it's a shorter flight and there's no time difference. not far at all from florida.
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Old 06-05-2009, 09:49 PM
 
Location: Denver, CO
20 posts, read 47,992 times
Reputation: 34
pman, wasn't the Puerto Rico Baseball League - full of "hometown" teams - on the verge of folding as recently as last year, due primarily to financial issues and lack of attendance?

Obviously people liking the sport is a reason to consider a place; in reality, like or love of the sport is a necessity for a successful MLB franchise. That said, it alone is plainly insufficient.

As much as it pains me to say, MLB is a business, and there is nothing at all to suggest that a MLB franchise in Puerto Rico would be successful, or even viable, from a business point of view.
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