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Old 11-23-2009, 12:45 PM
 
Location: DF
758 posts, read 2,003,930 times
Reputation: 616

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sandhillian View Post
Everytime I hear this I don't know whether to laugh or cry but I have actually heard many people state this as a reason not to become a state.

Well, I'm not just making it up! LOL.
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Old 11-23-2009, 08:37 PM
 
1,069 posts, read 1,415,973 times
Reputation: 722
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trucker7 View Post
Mentality has nothing to do with lack of education.


I'm pretty sure that if I ask a NY born and raised Puerto Rican in what country they were born and in what country do they live, the answer will be USA. If you ask the same question to someone born and raised in Texas, Georgia, California, etc., the answer will still be USA. Now, ask someone born and raised in PR the same question and the answer won't be USA, it will be Puerto Rico. Even though everyone in PR knows that PR is a US territory, Puerto Ricans see themselves as living in a separate country.
Sorry, to disagree with you, Trucker, but my friend was born in Puerto Rico, and raised in the USA, and if you ask him, he will tell that he was born in Puerto Rico, and raised in NYC. Therefore, he is Puerto Rican, but acknowledges both countries. So, not all Puerto Ricans see themselves as living in a separate country.......................
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Old 11-24-2009, 06:49 AM
 
Location: Scranton
1,384 posts, read 2,800,731 times
Reputation: 1650
I don't think that you understood me. I have two kids that were born in FL and NJ respectively. If you ask them what they are they will tell you that they are Puerto Ricans. Now, if you ask them in what country they were born they will say USA. Now, ask someone in PR in what country they were born and the answer will be PR.

From a strictly geographic point of view, Puerto Ricans see PR as separate from USA.
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Old 11-24-2009, 08:28 AM
 
1,772 posts, read 4,074,725 times
Reputation: 4740
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trucker7 View Post
I don't think that you understood me. I have two kids that were born in FL and NJ respectively. If you ask them what they are they will tell you that they are Puerto Ricans. Now, if you ask them in what country they were born they will say USA. Now, ask someone in PR in what country they were born and the answer will be PR.

From a strictly geographic point of view, Puerto Ricans see PR as separate from USA.
As a native, I have to vouch for what trucker7 is pointing at. When people asked me what I was I always said American, proceeded by being given the stink eye and mocked/marginalized. The majority of people down there will answer Puerto Rican as their nationality and assert Puerto Rico as its own country. It's a flawed perception and factually incorrect, but it is what it is down there.

As to the original question. Puerto Rico is only hyped among nostalgic second+ generation Puerto ricans living in the mainland. I've never heard even puerto ricans in the island make a concerted effort to hype and dismiss the tribulations of their daily living in PR, and these are the same people that mocked me mind you. Granted, that may also have to do with the fact they can't blow smoke up mine, since I'm native too, but the point remains that the only time I've heard exaggerated claims of "milk and honey" about PR has been from the non-native, newyorican or post-generational ricans in the mainland. Islanders will tell you the straight score so long as they perceive you politically neutral i.e. a white american phrasing the question ins a curious/informational tone rather than politically asking it.
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Old 12-01-2009, 12:52 PM
 
Location: Seattle, WA
3 posts, read 9,389 times
Reputation: 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by jay_jay26 View Post
QFT!


I lived there most of my life and although is one of the most beautiful places in the world (sorry, but I cannot find beaches more beautiful than the ones from PR), it is also one of the worst to live in. The quality of life is terrible; tons of domestic violence (at least every two weeks a young woman is killed by her spouse, ex spouse or partner), crime, at least three murders a day, corruption, and tons of old people who still thinks this crappy status (free association) is awesome. I mean the free association crap wins by a short margin over statehood (say 46% versus 45.7% as an example) is all because of all those old farts who aren't in a hurry to die anytime soon. Younger people don't like voting, and it gets on my nerves!

Free association is bull crap. The biggest lie ever told to mankind. I prefer PR to be either state 51 or a totally independent country. PR has a very substantial liquor industry that, if more investors put more money on it, could be the motor of a very powerful economy. The real problem? Destruction of agriculture; most lands destined for agriculture are being used to build more useless houses.

These days I live in Norfolk, Virginia. Since I grew up, partly, in North Carolina, living in here feels familiar to me.

Something I do like from Puerto Rico? People from the countryside, are super kind. Maybe that's why I like the south so much; people are so nice and so kind in here.

Why people from San Juan and most metropolitan cities are so acid? For the same reason people from NYC; big cities are rotten places that makes you cranky.
Puerto Rico is already an economic powerhouse compard to the rest of Latin America. We have the largest pharmaceuticals industry in the world, and we produce machinery, chemicals and electronics. We have the same GDP per capita as Portugal, and the highest median wage rate of any Spanish-speaking country in the world, including Spain. As for agriculture, it's a low-value enterprise and no country can feasibly sustain itself off it alone. not even very large, sparsely populated countries like the US. Currently, agriculture accounts for 1% of the Puerto Rican economy.

As for the island's status, I don't like the current status very much either, but I infinitely prefer it to statehood. I'm strongly pro-independence, but since almost no one else is (because they're idiots and don't realize we can afford to take over American welfare), I'd rather us remain in this limbo than be mauled whole by the American empire.

As for the OP question, no, I don't think Puerto Rico is overrated. It has a comparable living standard to South Korea or the poorer US states, and is miles away of almost anywhere else in the world outside of North America and Western Europe. We further complement that by having amazing food, beautiful women, and great scenery. I love my island and wouldn't change it for anything.
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Old 01-12-2010, 12:21 PM
 
3 posts, read 19,875 times
Reputation: 19
I'm not so sure about the great standard of living in the US.

I was born and raised in PR, and I went to college in Penn State where I got a degree in engineering.

I currently reside between West Village and Chelsea, in New York City.

The infrastructure, in the heart of the most improtant city of the most important country of the world, is horrid. Beyond reproach. Weater heaters suck, and break down. The heating ventilation can also break down whenever. Cable TV and internet are under monopoly, so you're screwed with Time Warner and crappy service. The trains are always late, so are buses. And the water's dirty. PR's water supply is second only to Kentucky (who would've figured that out, huh?) I know, I'm a civil engineer.

Health Care in PR used to be better in 1990 than what it is today thanks to some pro-statehood jerk governor who wanted to do something funny to it and ended up bankrupt, but also better (and public-private) than what it is today in the States.

Public Education has a bad rap back home, because students can't be searched when they go inside. So people with weapons and drugs get in, and then can cause problems. That's easily fixable. Either way, the resources are there for those who need and use it. Not so in the states, unless you live in places like Orange Country, or in rich neighborhoods in the states.

Police seems great, where there is no crime. Where there is crime, police sucks. In PR, we have a lot of crime, but crime tends to affect only those involved. Moreover, we should note that it is the US who is in charge of PR's border security. That's why only 2% of incoming shipping is checked, and 98% is overlooked. Drugs are NEVER caught coming in. Always when they're already inside. And let's not get started on illegal weapons...

Moreover, we don't suffer from racism, and cultural segregation. so that's a nice + whenever. I actually still have a hard time getting used to it in NYC.

We have a much weaker economy, completely dependent on the United States and some key partners in Europe. But the US economy depends on China, and Western Europe as well. So it's not like anyone is getting off easy anymore. Either ways, we're a small country. We also don't use the IMF to economically strangle competitors and neighboring countries into poverty for our personal gain. Nor do we invade countries, like the US did to us, in order to gain "tactical" advantages either militarily or economically. The US can't really flaunt that flag, can they?

So thats what? Heating/Cooling, Water, Public Transportation, Public Education, Public Safety, etc?

In the end, we have our short comings, but we have things that we need not be ashamed of and instead proud of. Puerto Rico is over rated in some things, and under rated in others. What should be noted, is that few people actually know the amount of money that the US gets out of the island through cheap production of goods, lack of taxes, and special (hidden) taxes on everything exported and imported. Which is another huge reason why PR can't compete with the rest of the world (we're handicapped by yankee taxes). If you don't believe me, then how come nobody produces food such as meat or vegetables in PR for our own use? Because it's cheaper to export them from the states than to make it back home. Really? yeah, really. The Fed is a ***** when it comes to our agriculture (which is dead anyways, hovering at 1% of economic output)

We we do know, is that the US used to rent out PR land as an army base. That army base (navy, actually) by comparable prices should be rented at $500 million a year. We didn't get a single cent from that, and that base existed for almsot an entire century.

We should be an independent country. We probably will be, once the referendum pro-statehood wins, and we get turned down. From there, onwards, it's just a matter of time and organization.

P.S. The economy in Puerto Rico has been in steady recession for the better part of a decade. The US economy has only expanded through 2 bubbles (.com bubble which was turned into a housing/real estate bubble which just burst and they might turn it into a carbon-trade bubble from the cap and trade Goldman Sachs is creating) but generally also stagnant. The Dominican Republic's economy, since it's no longer under the foot of the US/Western europe under some pseudo-Cold war mentality, is expanding at a 4-8% yearly rate. To that, I say "GG pro-statehooders, kthxbye".

P.S.S. GG = Good Game, as in Game's Over.

Last edited by mje173; 01-12-2010 at 12:29 PM..
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Old 01-12-2010, 05:34 PM
 
Location: North Carolina
4 posts, read 12,707 times
Reputation: 10
Yes and no. Great Vacation its my home land. But I think it's nicer in other countries. Trust me I've been all over the World more than once. So far my #1 is Costa Rica It's Cheap and people are nice. #2 Barbados Nice beaches a little expensive. #3 Thailand and Singapore both are great locations. #4 Panama or Argentina. And of Course Spain and Ireland.
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Old 01-12-2010, 07:46 PM
 
1,995 posts, read 3,033,517 times
Reputation: 15825
I'm very surprised to read your comment about the water. I was horrified when we got our annual water report to see the number of violations and contaminants such as feces in the water. The water report was definitely worse than those I have received while living in the states. They are required to use a standardized form so it should be a fair comparison. We also suffer from frequent shortages or other problems where there is no water. I have never lived in NYC so I will take your word for it about conditions there.

Health care is much worse here in my opinion. The wait time is ridiculous and very hard for people with disabilities. I know someone who flies to the states he cannot wait all day at the doctor the way you have to here.

I do agree with you that there are things to be proud of in PR, I just don't think the water or health care are what I would tout.
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Old 01-12-2010, 09:09 PM
 
1,772 posts, read 4,074,725 times
Reputation: 4740
Quote:
Originally Posted by mje173 View Post
I'm not so sure about the great standard of living in the US.

I was born and raised in PR, and I went to college in Penn State where I got a degree in engineering.

I currently reside between West Village and Chelsea, in New York City.

The infrastructure, in the heart of the most improtant city of the most important country of the world, is horrid. Beyond reproach. Weater heaters suck, and break down. The heating ventilation can also break down whenever. Cable TV and internet are under monopoly, so you're screwed with Time Warner and crappy service. The trains are always late, so are buses. And the water's dirty. PR's water supply is second only to Kentucky (who would've figured that out, huh?) I know, I'm a civil engineer.

Health Care in PR used to be better in 1990 than what it is today thanks to some pro-statehood jerk governor who wanted to do something funny to it and ended up bankrupt, but also better (and public-private) than what it is today in the States.

Public Education has a bad rap back home, because students can't be searched when they go inside. So people with weapons and drugs get in, and then can cause problems. That's easily fixable. Either way, the resources are there for those who need and use it. Not so in the states, unless you live in places like Orange Country, or in rich neighborhoods in the states.

Police seems great, where there is no crime. Where there is crime, police sucks. In PR, we have a lot of crime, but crime tends to affect only those involved. Moreover, we should note that it is the US who is in charge of PR's border security. That's why only 2% of incoming shipping is checked, and 98% is overlooked. Drugs are NEVER caught coming in. Always when they're already inside. And let's not get started on illegal weapons...

Moreover, we don't suffer from racism, and cultural segregation. so that's a nice + whenever. I actually still have a hard time getting used to it in NYC.

We have a much weaker economy, completely dependent on the United States and some key partners in Europe. But the US economy depends on China, and Western Europe as well. So it's not like anyone is getting off easy anymore. Either ways, we're a small country. We also don't use the IMF to economically strangle competitors and neighboring countries into poverty for our personal gain. Nor do we invade countries, like the US did to us, in order to gain "tactical" advantages either militarily or economically. The US can't really flaunt that flag, can they?

So thats what? Heating/Cooling, Water, Public Transportation, Public Education, Public Safety, etc?

In the end, we have our short comings, but we have things that we need not be ashamed of and instead proud of. Puerto Rico is over rated in some things, and under rated in others. What should be noted, is that few people actually know the amount of money that the US gets out of the island through cheap production of goods, lack of taxes, and special (hidden) taxes on everything exported and imported. Which is another huge reason why PR can't compete with the rest of the world (we're handicapped by yankee taxes). If you don't believe me, then how come nobody produces food such as meat or vegetables in PR for our own use? Because it's cheaper to export them from the states than to make it back home. Really? yeah, really. The Fed is a ***** when it comes to our agriculture (which is dead anyways, hovering at 1% of economic output)

We we do know, is that the US used to rent out PR land as an army base. That army base (navy, actually) by comparable prices should be rented at $500 million a year. We didn't get a single cent from that, and that base existed for almsot an entire century.

We should be an independent country. We probably will be, once the referendum pro-statehood wins, and we get turned down. From there, onwards, it's just a matter of time and organization.

P.S. The economy in Puerto Rico has been in steady recession for the better part of a decade. The US economy has only expanded through 2 bubbles (.com bubble which was turned into a housing/real estate bubble which just burst and they might turn it into a carbon-trade bubble from the cap and trade Goldman Sachs is creating) but generally also stagnant. The Dominican Republic's economy, since it's no longer under the foot of the US/Western europe under some pseudo-Cold war mentality, is expanding at a 4-8% yearly rate. To that, I say "GG pro-statehooders, kthxbye".

P.S.S. GG = Good Game, as in Game's Over.
The jist of your post generally points to the fact that PR is a mere microcosm of the US. There is nothing in your criticism of the mainland that even remotely suggests PR is endemically different socio-politically to the CONUS. And the suggestion that the Dominican Republic is somehow evidence of the economic potential of PR to duke it out on its own and retain the same geo-political relevance is just off the reservation. DR has way more natural resources than PR and they are exploiting the heck out of it. Agriculture is still a big part of their production sector, which means they're still relying on 15th century economic constructs to make their economic claim. According to the UN, they rank #14 worldwide in resource mismanagement, and they have a critical energy resource shortage. Their blackouts are more pronounced than that of Puerto Rico, which is laughable for a US territory in the 21st century. Regarding the jab at the US CBP, Colombian drug trade favors the DR for the purposes of money laundering because of the lack of oversight of their financial system (no FBI/DEA/ATF presence like in good ol PR). So they have the same drug-based crime problems as PR, but theirs is accentuated by the outrageous impact it has on the poor of the country (30%). UNICEF has identified the DR as high risk in the arena of child prostitution, stating the impact of supplementary income provided by child prostitutes is noteworthy among the poor. I could go on about the DR. So spare me the usual "Dominican Republic" case study to how Puerto Rico is just waiting to blow up economically if just independence was granted. The amount of illegal dominican migration to the island is staggering. They look for anchor babies and that green card just as bad as illiterate mexicans in the south border of the United States. Even Cuban exiles in the island look at dominicans with a skeptical eye.

You have more beefs with the mainland's socio-economics than anything else, and that tends to exacerbate the view that the Puerto Rican island reality is a better 'alternative' by the proxy 'virtue' that the CONUS has a checkered record. That's a weak argument, particularly since you obtained your education at Penn State and still reside and presumably employ yourself in the CONUS.

Try taking that civil engineering degree back to PR with it's 20%+ unemployment, to the governmental agencies (since there really is NO private industry to speak of in the land of enchantment) that mostly employ civil engineers down there, then re-read your own post and you'll all of a sudden find miraculous redeeming qualities to the CONUS, which is why you went to Penn State to get a degree, even while being a non-anexionist, in the first place. We call that talking out of both sides of your mouth.

I went to school up here too and got undergraduate and graduate aerospace engineering degrees from Univ. of Alabama and Purdue respectively (since you seem to value dinner table braggin' rights), and with fellow Ricans of your political leaning, and always got a chuckle at the Dr. Jekyll dynamic, blasting the CONUS for its imperialistic capitalistic oppression, yet going back home and vowing to never get "caught" in that island for work or professional careers, after all, you didn't cough up out of state tuition at Penn state for nothing.

The reality is that living in/around NYC is the dumps; anyone could have told you that without actually having to endure it. Instead of having the stereotypical New England/West Coaster myopic view that the CONUS is two coasts with a trailer park in the middle, it would serve you well to take an objective look at all the regions of this country and witness the aggregate higher standard of living that can be achieved in the mainland with the same amount of money when compared to PR. I live in Louisiana, my water's fine and cheap, my internet works great, my power never goes out, it hardly ever snows here, the country is beautiful, and there's people of all sorts of life: the good, the bad and the ugly. But as opposed to PR, I can afford a home whereas my peers in the island live in their parent's basement with their PHd's because nobody can afford a 350K "starter" cement flintstone house in stray-bullet Santurce or commuting two hours from bum-f$$ Arecibo. It just ain't all that is cracked up to be in perma-gridlock, 400/mo-electric-yet-the-power-goes-out-all-the-time PR.. In essence, using the overpopulated "Hong Kongish" rat race of NYC as representative of the other 50% of the country that doesn't live on the coasts is overstating the case that living in America is the equivalent of slumming it on the barrios of Loiza, which is more along the lines of trying to stay above water in overpriced dumpy NYC.

Just some food for thought.

Last edited by hindsight2020; 01-12-2010 at 09:18 PM..
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Old 01-15-2010, 07:12 PM
 
2,639 posts, read 5,343,269 times
Reputation: 2355
Quote:
Originally Posted by At1WithNature View Post
He said the women are gorgeous but if they see you even glance at another woman, they will go for the jugular.
Just wanted to say something on this...many years ago, I was "play dating" a Puerto Rican girl. She was "fresh off the boat" PR too...anyway, it was a game to me, I didn't take it seriously. I was involved with another girl and when mami found out, tell you what...I was afraid for my life for a few months.
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