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Old 03-23-2010, 09:05 AM
 
Location: Puerto Rico
353 posts, read 968,347 times
Reputation: 174

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Hindsight got a lot of points right. I also think that most violent crimes and drug related problems come out of the projects, which I don't think are not going anywhere. As far as I know, there is no word that something is going to be done about it. There's just too many people relying on welfare and living there that politicians do not dare to touch the subject. Although police presence is better now in the projects, it's still a big problem. Some months ago the police raided an apartment there that renovated and looked like a luxurious apartment in a high end area. This means that the problem is far from over.

Now, I am not saying that everyone living in the projects are criminals. That would be a lie. The projects in PR are a mixture or good and bad people. Lately the projects have been better kept and the people are starting to take care of the place. Sadly, it is still a nest for drug operations.

People who are having a hard time getting a job are likely to detour into the drug environment, this would be true for any big city. It is a fact that drug business is highly dangerous but potentially highly profitable as well. So people with nothing to lose tend to drift towards drug distribution.

PR is highly mixed in respect of race. Although it is true that may people in Loiza are black, I cannot say there is a dominant race in PR. Interestingly though, after reading this thread, I've been recalling my work experience and I have hardly seen a black in any professional job (I'm a computer programmer by the way). For some reason that escapes me, black PRs usually are found in blue collar jobs. white collar jobs are mainly taken by whites and mestizos (my race by the way).

The south tends to be drier than the north. This is because the air from the ocean usually blows from the north/north-east. Because there is a mountain range in the middle of the island, this air does not cross over to the south. I don't know to what extent, but you might say that the south is not as populated because it is drier. The lowest temperature ever you will find in PR would usually be 60, and that's only on the mountains, thus living in the south can be uncomfortable. This indeed makes the south less attractive to tourists. Less tourism leads to less jobs, thus increasing the likelihood of people looking at crime as an option. However, what people usually do is move out from the south and into the north. Less population also means less revenue to drug business. I would say this is why the south is relatively safer.

Usually high income individuals tend to concentrate on San Juan. Those who do not live in San Juan tend to commute to San Juan. It is difficult to find a high end job outside of San Juan.
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Old 03-23-2010, 09:13 AM
 
35 posts, read 66,036 times
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Wrong on the race issue up there. I bet anything that most people in your office are not white or black, but most are in between. Why? Cause most people here ar ein between. We are talking about black like an african american, fine, theres plenty here like that, but also white like a caucasian american, theres plenty here too, but both are dwarfed compared to the in betweens. So I am sure in your office you dont have whites either. PR people are not usually white, though they do not discriminate at all, they are not usually white or black, they are in between.
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Old 03-23-2010, 09:19 AM
 
Location: Puerto Rico
353 posts, read 968,347 times
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Notepad is right about violent crimes concentrating on those who are involved. There are no random shootings or any kind of tribe war going on that innocents are getting targeted. The problem is that, when a drive-by or a shooting does take place, bystanders sometimes get shot. For example, some weeks ago, a drug dealer was shot in his car, so was one of his daughters in the back seat. However, this would be true to any shooting.

This is easily prevented avoiding the projects, specially at night, but this would also be true for any city with projects. Now, nights at San Juan, that would depend on where you are. There are some sketchy part where you do not want to wander during the night. Again, this would be true to any city.

Violent crimes not drug related are rare and far between and are not randoms crimes. You'll never see a news saying that somebody got shot just because or somebody got hurt just because. As Notepad says, you do not live thinking that you might get shot, unless you live in the projects of course.

Again, Notepad hits the bulls-eye about colorblindness. I wasn't clear enough on my last post about this. You won't find anything like white and/or black communities in PR. We are quite a mixture and nobody here can say they are "pure" anything. The many people in Loiza are black is the only exception. This is because when the Spaniards where here, most slaves escaped to that area, thus making it predominantly black. Yet again, there is no marked racism per se or looking down, like I experienced in Boston during the week I was there.

There are exceptions though. I have a friend whose part of his family are racists and I cannot attend to any activities they have. However, this would an exception, which you could find anywhere.

One comment about Notepad's post. The only project they torn down lately was the one in front on Moscoso Bridge (forgot the name) and that was quite a few years ago. Which other project are they or did they tearing/tore down?
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Old 03-23-2010, 09:23 AM
 
Location: Puerto Rico
353 posts, read 968,347 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Notepad View Post
Wrong on the race issue up there. I bet anything that most people in your office are not white or black, but most are in between. Why? Cause most people here ar ein between. We are talking about black like an african american, fine, theres plenty here like that, but also white like a caucasian american, theres plenty here too, but both are dwarfed compared to the in betweens. So I am sure in your office you dont have whites either. PR people are not usually white, though they do not discriminate at all, they are not usually white or black, they are in between.
I only used the term "white" just to describe the skin color. It is very true that nobody in PR is truly "white" as in Caucasian-American. I was only stating the fact that, as far as skin color (not race) goes, I barely see any black on the places I work. I currently work in Canovanas, Guaynabo, and Cupey and haven't seen any black in any of the offices. All people I see, as you so perfectly put, are mixed colors. Somewhere between milk and coffee and white.
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Old 03-23-2010, 09:24 AM
 
35 posts, read 66,036 times
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To two posts up:
Your talking about Las Acasias, the projects they tore down by Moscos bridge.
They torn down more than half of Berwyn.
Todays newspaper front page mentions they are tearing down Galdiolas right now.
More but I cant remember right now. I know more though.
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Old 03-23-2010, 09:54 AM
 
Location: Puerto Rico
353 posts, read 968,347 times
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Just read about it. Seems like there's a big fuss about relocation. I'm so behind on local news.

Honestly, I don't think this is going to change anything. They will be just relocating the problem. Drug dealers will just learn the layout of the new place and start business like always. Unless the new layout is more open and easier to keep watch and the police keeps a good presence, the problem will still be there.
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Old 03-23-2010, 07:22 PM
 
5,765 posts, read 10,751,803 times
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Quote:
You'll never see a news saying that somebody got shot just because or somebody got hurt just because.
Well... except for things like the Sabana Seca/Toa Baja massacre...
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Old 03-24-2010, 08:43 AM
 
Location: DF
758 posts, read 2,049,336 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Notepad View Post
Also, there is no such thing as race in PR. PR is as colorblind as a place can be, any argument to the contrary is just lies, made up out of thin air. And I do know it is hard for Americans to believe such a thing as colorblindness really exists somewhere, but yeah, it does, which is another thing that makes PR a nice place.
I actually admire hindsight for attacking an issue that is so taboo in PR. And no, there is no such thin as colorblind, and not true in Puerto Rico. Yes, at the end of the day, black white, brown on the island are all Boricuasm, but take a drive around the island, notepad. Drive through Loiza and then drive through the nice parts of Carolina, Condado, Santurce. It's like two different countries. Blacks or Afro-Puerto Ricans are the majority in Loiza, and white Puerto Ricans make up the majority of the island's country clubs and private sports clubs, etc. This is not to say that there are not many mulatto or dark-skinned puerto ricans at the high end of the social strata, and many many many poor white Puerto Ricans, but generally, in the past 15 or so years, it's what I've seen. An even better test: Go to private schools in SJ and compare the racial make up to that of public schools.

I guess what makes many people such as notepad believe that PR is a colorblind society is that, at the lower end of the socio-economic strata, there's a ton of everything. In whatever barriada they live in, there's all sorts of colors.

This is an interesting discussion; as I type this I actually have several newspapers on my desk and headlines on 3 of them actually talk about "Sicarios de Loiza matan" or "intervieene gobierno para garantizar seguridad en loiza" and the newspaper plasters pictures of afro-puerto ricans on the front page? Is that not a subliminal message or what? also, I was at a Burger king last week waiting for my order, and this fat black lady started raising a storm with the employees about her order and yellin and hollerin... the guy next to me had heard me speak with a foreign accent so assumed I was not familiar with PR. He chuckled and said, "seguro es de Santo Domingo or San Croix" then, when he heard her distinct PR accent he said, "es de Villa Loiza... muchos morenos alli" .... clearly, this is a colorblind society, right?

Yes, racial lines are not as rigid in PR as say, SOUTH AFRICA, but they are there and they shape society. Hindsight is not making any statistics up. The problem with the census and the problem in Puerto Rico is that black is a different definition on the island than on in the CONUS. So many people that are, let's say, 75% black probably still wouldn't say they're black on a census form.

It's actually counter-productive to say the island is colorblind... you then ignore the problems that the poorer black Puerto Ricans face and it's easy to excuse them away with "We're not racist on this island" It'd make for a fairer society to face it head on and deal with it... otherwise, the island will keep on with white governors.

Last edited by joelaldo; 03-24-2010 at 08:52 AM..
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Old 03-24-2010, 11:26 AM
 
35 posts, read 66,036 times
Reputation: 22
^^^^ LIES LIES LIES LIES.
Oh my God this is getting ridiculous. THERES NO RACE IN PR. About almost everyhting you said is lies.What white governorns? They are all beige, which is what the majority of people are here. Like I said, theres very few whites (american type white, not whatever the heck your thinking to make up your lies) and very few blacks (american type blacks) here, and everyone else is in the middle, beige. And yes, people here are colorblind, and you should of said America instead of S.Africa, where did that one come from?
I dont see mostly whites or blacks in poor or rich areas, its all mixed, same with the private or public schools. I do see that in the States 98% of the time though, but not here, AND if you do still think you see it here, its nowhere even near the way it is in the states, its the opposite of occasions, like 2%.

But its the interent, and your wrong, and Im wasting time correcting you and that conflicted hinsight guy with huge chips on your shoulders, which is a waste of time, so I am not going to address this issue anymore, and will leave it at the truth, which is that PR is the most colorblind place on Earth, and you cannot deny that.
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Old 03-24-2010, 12:58 PM
 
Location: DF
758 posts, read 2,049,336 times
Reputation: 616
Quote:
Originally Posted by Notepad View Post
PR is the most colorblind place on Earth, and you cannot deny that.
I can, and will, especially since that is an opinion, and not really a fact that has been documented and well proven.

The reason I said South Africa and not America is because it's a country that up to 20 years ago, had a very rigid racial segregation system and to this day, racial lines are distinct.

Sorry I am 'wasting your time' correcting me. But... "Beige" is not a color. Yes, the majority of the island is in the middle as far as racial makeup, but race is not a concept that exists everywhere else but Puerto Rico. Yes, racial lines in Puerto Rico are not rigid, and in most Puerto Rican families, 'interracial' marriage is a non-issue. But I think calling Puerto Rico a colorblind society and painting it as this utopian post-racial society is ignoring hard facts. EVERY governor since Luis Muñoz Marin has been, at least by most geneticists' standards, white/caucasian.

Last edited by joelaldo; 03-24-2010 at 01:07 PM..
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