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Old 11-06-2011, 12:41 PM
 
99 posts, read 74,122 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chacho_keva View Post
Hey, I'm no hardcore church type. However, I will admit that attempting to live a moral life (emphasis on attempting) does have its merritts. It disciplines and acustoms the mind to consider the consequences of one's actions, on self and others. Morality - at the very least - gives one reason to pause and take into account what one is about to say or do before executing the action.

I'm not saying we will always succeed at "attempting" to be moral. But, it's a worthy persuit in the development of self-discipline. And as we all know, a certain measure of discipline is required to be successful in life.

To say that morality "does not work" is a gross overstatement.

Question:
If "morality does not work," are you advocating that it's a good thing to raise children moral-free? If something does not work, why practice it, right?
You've single-handedly identified the root problem of the post-modern world - I joke not. The modern solution to immorality is to change the thinking on the behavior. For instance, is it moral to have sex out of wedlock -no -BUT, sex isn't about marriage and family anymore - they made a change in the thinking. Is it moral to not work and live off govt assistance - no - UNLESS you're too fat, have a sore back, or some ubiquitous mental disorder - now its OK. Is it OK to commit violent crime, or any crime - no - unless you have been brought up in a bad family, have been treated badly because of your looks, have an ancestor that was treated badly, etc.. It goes on and on - post modernism has turned morality on its head and people continue to desperately look for more excuses ("injustices") to relief even more guilty consciences.
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Old 11-07-2011, 07:47 AM
 
3,239 posts, read 3,640,440 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brahms View Post
You've single-handedly identified the root problem of the post-modern world - I joke not. The modern solution to immorality is to change the thinking on the behavior. For instance, is it moral to have sex out of wedlock -no -BUT, sex isn't about marriage and family anymore - they made a change in the thinking. Is it moral to not work and live off govt assistance - no - UNLESS you're too fat, have a sore back, or some ubiquitous mental disorder - now its OK. Is it OK to commit violent crime, or any crime - no - unless you have been brought up in a bad family, have been treated badly because of your looks, have an ancestor that was treated badly, etc.. It goes on and on - post modernism has turned morality on its head and people continue to desperately look for more excuses ("injustices") to relief even more guilty consciences.
It pains me to admit that I cannot readily agree 100% with your assessment. Life is complicated and things are not always black & white. Life is often clouded by large gray areas. For example, you state (and I agree) that it's immoral to have sex out of wedlock. However, before deeming a person as immoral, I'd first be inclined to question why was sex engaged in out of wedlock. There might be a valid reason to justify such an immoral act.

But again, it's imperative to raise children based on moral principles. It's our duty to encourage living a moral life. Why? Because it foments the wholesome society we all want to live in.
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Old 11-07-2011, 12:20 PM
 
6 posts, read 10,892 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chacho_keva View Post
It pains me to admit that I cannot readily agree 100% with your assessment. Life is complicated and things are not always black & white. Life is often clouded by large gray areas. For example, you state (and I agree) that it's immoral to have sex out of wedlock. However, before deeming a person as immoral, I'd first be inclined to question why was sex engaged in out of wedlock. There might be a valid reason to justify such an immoral act.

But again, it's imperative to raise children based on moral principles. It's our duty to encourage living a moral life. Why? Because it foments the wholesome society we all want to live in.

great post! and its so cliche but OUR CHILDREN ARE THE FUTURE! couldnt agree more with you ck.
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Old 11-08-2011, 12:00 PM
 
6 posts, read 10,892 times
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i came across this yesterday and just thought of this thread, Kamenetz(2010 p.33, 3rd paragraph)

(Blaug 87)

"Better-educated people have better-educated parents, come from smaller homes, obtain financial help more easily, live in cities, are better motivated, achieve higher scores on intelligence and aptitude test, attain better academic grade records, gain more from self education, and generally live longer and are healthier".......Kamenetz continues....."to put it very bluntly, clever and/ or middle-class children get more schooling than stupid and/ or working class children, and later they earn more simply because they have had the advantages in life, of which more education is one and not even the only one"

The youth in PR have lost their way and theres no one to really teach em how to be men or rather how "real" men should conduct themselves. ChachoKeva said we have to do this on our own and find our own way, i agree with that but i am a realist and know that assistance is needed. not only do we have children raising children but they are raising them wrong, but is it their fault or is it ours for failing them? i mean the blame doesnt just fall onto them imo, its not just their problem, its ours as well.....we are in this together...its OUR island after all.

@ChachoKeva: though we have had our differences in opinions, we want the same thing. Gracias hermano!
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Old 11-08-2011, 01:11 PM
 
196 posts, read 319,115 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brahms View Post
I visited PR last year, stayed in Rincon, and found the entire Island to be an overpopulated, traffic-laden, garbage pit. I visited the fort and was shocked at the slums that reside directly next-door -that slum area was as bad as one finds in Brazil. What is keeping that place from descending into chaos? - oh, my taxable income of course. Another paradise ruined by the slave trade. Ever wonder why Hawaii is nice and PR is a dump? Its the natives - or lack thereof I should say.
Brahms, there are a LOT of folks in PR who grew up in poor, traffic-laden slums, who have worked hard jobs in the hot sun since they were kids, just so they could have the things that your spoiled, indolent American, couch-potato teenagers (who can't be kept outside for school P.E. during a 'heat advisory' by the weather service) take for granted, whose parents worked odd hours in a garment factory, tuna cannery, construction site or sugar refinery for half of what anybody would accept stateside, who had to pool together six at a time for food money, carfare and board in order to get through college, who work two jobs to get ahead if they stay on the island and who are VERY qualified at their jobs when they move stateside, who have never seen a nickel of your money and for whom your opinion of them and of the island means as much as the grubs under the rocks in my back yard, me included.
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Old 11-08-2011, 01:58 PM
 
196 posts, read 319,115 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chacho_keva View Post
I completely disagree with the underlined statement above. The USA has done enough for Puerto Rico and Puerto Ricans. Sadly, most of us have squandered and pissed away the opportunities that come with being a United States Citizen. Instead of capitalizing on the advantage of citizenship, way too many of us have short sightedly sought to live off of government assistance programs so that we no longer have to work again, like the rest of humanity. That's part of the reason why 60% of the island's residents are unemployed.

Puerto Ricans on the island and the mainland need to take it upon ourselves to be leaders and the best of the best within the Hispanic community and society in general. This will only happen when each and every one of us take it upon ourselves to be assets and not burdens of society; when we make it our goal to raise children properly in a healthy family atmosphere; when we realize that partying should never come before the responsibility of work; when we make it our collective goal to be skilled, highly qualified and competative in our professions and vocations of choice; when we comprehend that monetary wealth is a necessary tool which leads to a higher quality life, etc.

Again, the government doesn't need to do anything else for us. WE each need to do something for OURSELVES!

BTW, I'm as Boricua as "arroz con gandules."
Chacho, although I agree with the general spirit of your argument and know why you feel that way, I have to differ on a certain point. Those Hispanics among us who are more concientious will, by default, prove to be the best of the best of the WHOLE of society, not because we gratify any diversity-challenged sector of a community in which we choose to live, but as a matter of course as we strive for the welfare and betterment of ourselves and our families. To that effect, it behooves us to resist the stereotypification of our origins in a negative manner, or to accept in any way, shape or form the encroachment by others on cultural matters native to us that pose no moral, legal or health threat, and and therefore have no truck to them. Furthermore, I believe, as a consequence of being a three-time parent, grandfather and teacher, that it enriches the development of a child to experience the full weight of his/her origins and cultural heritage, as well as that of the community he/she lives in. I know this to be true, as although I was born and raised stateside, I am eternally grateful to my extended family, friends and wife for having taught me what it means to be a good Puerto Rican in the best sense. Be careful how you approach the precarious matter of social acceptance, there is no greater loss than one's identity. When you preoccupy yourself with meeting the expectations of strangers, you will always be behind.
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Old 11-09-2011, 01:32 PM
 
3,239 posts, read 3,640,440 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by expatriado View Post
Chacho, although I agree with the general spirit of your argument and know why you feel that way, I have to differ on a certain point. Those Hispanics among us who are more concientious will, by default, prove to be the best of the best of the WHOLE of society, not because we gratify any diversity-challenged sector of a community in which we choose to live, but as a matter of course as we strive for the welfare and betterment of ourselves and our families. To that effect, it behooves us to resist the stereotypification of our origins in a negative manner, or to accept in any way, shape or form the encroachment by others on cultural matters native to us that pose no moral, legal or health threat, and and therefore have no truck to them. Furthermore, I believe, as a consequence of being a three-time parent, grandfather and teacher, that it enriches the development of a child to experience the full weight of his/her origins and cultural heritage, as well as that of the community he/she lives in. I know this to be true, as although I was born and raised stateside, I am eternally grateful to my extended family, friends and wife for having taught me what it means to be a good Puerto Rican in the best sense. Be careful how you approach the precarious matter of social acceptance, there is no greater loss than one's identity. When you preoccupy yourself with meeting the expectations of strangers, you will always be behind.
My inglis is no so bery guud lukin to onerestan dis!
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Old 12-26-2011, 09:26 PM
 
Location: Bronx, NY
5,722 posts, read 18,607,454 times
Reputation: 2319
Quote:
Originally Posted by lentzr View Post

San Juan. 44.2. One of the highest.
Ponce. 48.5. Slightly higher than San JUan
Loiza. 88.8 Easily the worst.
Fajardo 26. Average for PR
Luquillo 29.2 A little above average for PR.

derstand the regional discrepancies for violent crime in Puerto Rico. That's all.
Hey very interesting. Here are other major Latin American cities and there crime rates:

Santo Domingo (divided by precincts)

Santo Domingo Oeste: 26
Santo Domingo Este: 43.5
Santo Domingo Norte: 36.7
Distrito Nacional: 34
Boca Chica: 64.8


-------------------------------------------

Colombia:

Medellin: 87.42
Cali: 71.5
Cucuta: 57.2
Baranquilla: 27.9
Cartagena: 25.5

---------------------------------------------------------

Venezuela

Caracas: 118.6
Guayana: 68.8
Barquisimeto: 50.1

----------------------------------------------------------

Mexico

Juarez: 229
Chihuaha: 113
Culiacan: 87.8
Mexico city: 13

-----------------------------------------------------------

San Salvador: 82.9
Panama city: 19
Guayaquil: 18
Kingston: 59.2


ANd so on and so forth.

Just thought it would be interesting in comparing PR to the rest of it's compadres.
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Old 12-29-2011, 08:29 AM
 
99 posts, read 74,122 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 803andy View Post
Agreed, additionally Loiza (a former rest haven for run-away slaves) also suffered due to bureaucratic racism, indifference and years of being underfunded.
The excuse of racism is getting old. Is it racism that keeps St. Martin in its condition (this island has a black government, police force, etc.)? Is it racism that keeps Subsaharan Africa in its disgusting state? Could it be that it is blacks themselves that have ruined PR and all the other Caribbean Islands? Another interesting comparison is Haiti/Dominican Republic - why the marked difference in quality between these two states whom share the SAME island?
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Old 01-01-2012, 03:43 PM
 
5,765 posts, read 10,781,480 times
Reputation: 3850
Puerto Rico ended the year with a preliminary total of 1,136 murders. Using the latest US Census population estimate for the island (3,706,690), that ends up being a rate of 30.65 murders per 100,000 people. That's 6.4 times higher than the US national rate of 4.8. It's also an increase of 4.25 from Puerto Rico's 2010 rate of 26.4.
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