51st State in Union (appointed, crime, taxes)

[grmasterb]

Originally Posted by iColt1

..... do you want to be the 51st state and be protected by the USA ....

As a U.S. commomwealth, PR is already protected by the U.S. And, Puerto Ricans are already U.S. citizens. They get these benefits while also being able to retain a separate identity.

[arctichomesteader]

I believe they've voted against statehood in the past...

[joelaldo]

No, so far this thread has stayed clean. lol. II definitely don't like that the U.S. government has thrown the commonwealth option out...that's the one most puerto ricans would vote for. unfortunately, it probably doesnt benefit the united states to have 4 million people not paying federal income taxes but still enjoying citizenship benefits and social services....i dont think the military bases are really much more of a selling point either.

Unfortunately, PR has a lot more to gain from the U.S. than the U.S. does from Puerto Rico, so the message may soon be "either become a full state with full responsibilities, or become your own nation, none of this in the middle nonsense"

Haven't yet checked the political reactions on the island, but I'm actually leaving PR at the end of May, and this time for good. Should be interesting.

[FeverTime]

As the son of a Puerto Rican, I'd like to weigh in on this.

I think Puerto Rico should become a state. I think it would help better integrate people who are already American citizens into the nation. I don't think it's fair that Puerto Ricans can't vote for President. I also don't think it's fair they don't have to pay the taxes that most Americans do.

It would be my dream for Puerto Ricans to be treated like everyone else, no better, no worse. What better way than giving them all the rights and responsibilities of statehood.

Of course, what I want does not count for anything. The people of Puerto Rico need to decide this. In the past they have voted against statehood but it's been close. I think a vote from time to time is necessary to see what the people want. Opinions change over time.

Personally, I think it would be terrible if Puerto Rico became its own country. Small countries usually don't do well.

I also dislike the status quo, though not as much as independence. It's weird how Puerto Ricans are Americans and sort of not Americans at the same time. Many Puerto Ricans in the states probably know what I'm talking about. There are a lot of misconceptions out there about Puerto Rico. Many people don't even realize Puerto Ricans are citizens. I hate having to inform folks that my father is an American citizen.

Many of the concerns about statehood stem from a sense of identity. There is fear that Puerto Rico will lose its identity. I believe this not to be the case. Many of the states are well integrated into the nation and still maintain strong identities. Massachusetts and Texas for example.

To conclude, here's how I see things:

-Independent Puerto Rico: One small nation that speaks Spanish out of many.
-Status quo: A part of the United States that has little influence and is not fully accepted.
-Statehood: A state that would be unique for have a Spanish speaking majority, likely to get political clout in the future.

I hope I have clearly stated my reasoning. I also hope I have not offended anyone--it's just my opinion. Personally I love Puerto Rico and would like to see it get the respect and influence that it deserves. However, I'll accept whatever outcome the people of Puerto Rico decide on.

[Senor Boogie Woogie]

Puerto Rico needs to be an independent country.

[adavi215]

I find this thread interesting and I will continue to stay up to date about this. I remember as a kid in the 90s there was talk about PR becoming a state. But I think they voted that down. I didn't know the issue had came back up.

[daveber]

This isn't about the good people of PR - it's about the hispanic vote.

[rusty78]

Puerto Rico has voted statehood down 3 times...and if they are smart they will vote it down for a 4th time......as a territory...they have all the protection and benefits in the world from the US...without the additional taxes, government interjection and corruption that go along with statehood...

Just look at Hawaii...there was a movement to succeed from the US several years later after voting Statehood in...for they tooooo mail more money back to the government after becoming a state than they did as a territory......

[chacho_keva]

Originally Posted by Interpol76

Puerto Rico doesnt need the USA.They have their own unique culture and the last thing the need is to be further "Americanized".

You stated..."Puerto Rico doesnt need the USA."

Oh really now? And you make this claim because...?

Questions:
- What would Puerto Rico's economy be based on should it become an independent nation?

- What natural resourses can be exploited from the island for economic purposes?

- How do you build an independent nation out of a territory which has been accustomed to the protections and benefits of the USA?

As I stated on another thread, building an independent nation requires hard work and sacrifice. How do you accomplish this when your citizenry believes that government owes them freedom from having to work hard and sacrifice?

BTW, I wish Puerto Rico had the wherewithal to pull itself up by it's own bootstraps and become an independent nation. However, the reality is that the island has no known natural resources upon which to base an economy.

Also, many Boricuas have become accustomed to the "struggle free" life afforded to them by U.S. gov't pensions. Without fail, each time I visit the island I meet yet another pre-midlife person who is on permanent dissability for everything from "los nervios," "la ansiedad," "el estres," "la taquicardia," "el equilibrio," "los discos," etc. Seems like people are mostly looking for ways to be less productive and have more leisure time at the expense of the U.S. taxpayer.

Given these observations and as a matter of practicality, Puerto Rico is best left as a U.S. territory.

[hindsight2020]

What people fail to consider when talking taxes is that just like HI, PR is a welfare siphon of subsidies. It's not even funny. Hawaii is a welfare state, period dot. Tourism does jack to dent the outstanding entitlement liabilities of a populace otherwise stuck in a remote island with non-competitive economic constructs. Puerto Rico will be much the same as a state. It would benefit economically from statehood. The PR state will not be able to continue to levy 33% state income tax brackets et al with the inclusion of a federal income tax. I rather see the same tax liability (which is insane down there as it is) where the majority goes [BACK] to the federal government. Remember, 70% of the PR workers are in the govt payroll, and PR is a false economy of federal subsidies, i.e. none of that tax revenue is actually created domestically in the island (non-existent private industry tax base). So PR folk would be giving the money back in taxes they're getting in subsidies anyways.

It's still a welfare construct, but at least now you're getting some of it back as opposed to giving it to the state govt that's clearly doing a bang up job of handling said subsidies. You guys think state govts here are bad? Try the one down there. Corrupt, can't do chit without a decade long permit process, anti-business, enviro-crazy puppets managed by an ulterior upper class that wants to keep Ricans DUMB and sell it with a false sense of "folklore" and false nationhood. Banana Republic dynamics in almost textbook format. Yeah I rather see these same dopes have a shot at bargaining for some federal pie at the big boy table in DC and pump some 21st century into that back assward island government.

Is it a net gain for competing states? No, of course not. But then again, you gonna cast that stone Capone? Take it up with Mississippi, Louisiana, eh Alabama...you know your run of the mill net welfare states (negative delta between money paid to the fed vis federal outlays received), if the idea of subsidizing a bunch of 'Ricans pisses on your Cheerios.

Learn this before you go spewing on about Ricans not paying taxes. Ricans as a median pay MORE taxes (and they pay SS and Medicare taxes...oh lookie federal liabilities....) to the state than conus folk pay to the state and federal combined. I rather see all that paper go back to the federal government than to the hands of a bunch of corrupt oligarchs quibbling over "arroz con gandules" and the preservation of the coquí and who's gonna paint the "kiosquitos de Luquillo". Let's get some federal highway funding and education money in there, build three federal highways that criss-cross the island like a big stinking target from space. Let's get the mountain towns back from the stone age and into par with the rest of the American citizenry. Let's kill this "folklore over content" bullchit over empowering the population towards the proactive use of the resources available to them as US citizens. The PR population has potential, statehood would certainly open a conduit to tap into it in a manner that doesn't deprive the island of its most valuable resource (i.e. me, a transplant and contributor to brain drain), it's people.

This all makes common sense, as such it will probably never see the light of day. Enjoy your Xmas platters, miss universe contest and medieval tax structure and choking cost of living that fosters drug trafficking. It may not be 80 degrees up here every day but at least I ain't getting shot at just because someone cut in line at the grocery store and all hell broke loose. A culture of low expectations breeds? That's right...low expectations.