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67% of Americans and 53% of Republicans do NOT want to extend tax cuts for the rich. Saw that on CNN last night or NYT or someplace like that.
No, indeed, this bill does NOT have overwhelming support. It is fiscally irresponsible and I hope the Dems hold their ground on this.
The more I think about this, it is clear Goolsby figured that by extending EIC, Make Work Pay, reduction in payroll taxes will provide a stimulus without using that dreaded word. This is actually a rather sophisticated approach and allows the Repubs to save face because they get their tax cuts and don't have to call this a stimulus. It just gives away too much.
The dems hold their ground on this...meaning letting the tax cuts expire and failure to extend unemployment extensions? You do know the fight only gets harder when the new congress is sworn in right. This could drag out for months. That means months of the middle class paying more in taxes each week int heir pay check and obviously no UI sxtensions. For the average couple combining for 100000 a year in combined income, that's about 400-500 more a month in taxes. The average person making 50k will pay 3-4k more a year in taxes.
This is why it's never going to get to that point. It will get done within the next week or so. And it was only a caucus rejection of the bill. That's not binding whatsoever.
show pretty clearly that when given a choice in the matter, most people don't want to extend the tax cuts for higher incomes. That shoots down any theory of "overwhelming" support for this proposal. At best it's grudging support or, more likely, just uninformed support.
For the record, here's the most recent poll I could find that asked more detailed questions about extending unemployment:
But the questions seem very leading and I can't even find the full poll results anywhere, so I don't put much stock in it.
Of course there isn't overwhelming support for every component. It's an all-or-nothing deal, so let's see a poll worded this way:
Are you so opposed to the 2-ear extension of Bush tax cuts for the "rich" that you are willing to give up
a) Bush tax rates for the non-rich
b) Unfunded 13-month extension of EUC
c) Payroll tax holiday
d) AMT relief for 2010
e) AMT relief for 2011
In fact, it would be cool to wait until people get their first downsized 2011 paychecks, or, if unemployed, no check at all, and ask them how they feel about it then...
I went on unemployment 2/21/10 and live in Florida with two payments remaining. According to the nice lady at the Florida Unemployment number, I am sooo screwed.
I can't believe the Dems (whilst still having a majority in Congress) would give away the tax cuts without at LEAST getting a 3 month Tier 5 for 99ers. Some negotiator Obama has turned out to be........
If you are going to lead a company, there is no substitute for strong leadership. Part of being a strong leader is to take risks. There is an old saying that "there can be no breakthrough without a breakup". Unless a leader is willing to stand up for the long-run, call a competitors bluff, live with the short-term pain of the breakup, and be confident that taking a hard line stand will eventually lead to a breakthrough, they will never last in the top job.
As a high wealth earner I have three points I would like to make to Washington. One is that after my first $ 250,000 I just in invest my money into banks. While that my be good for banks, it does nothing for the economy's ability to create a multiplying effect because I am not going to spend the additional money on consumption.
The second is that I would would gladly have my marginal tax rates be higher so that the 99% of Americans with only 75% of the nation's wealth can prosper. I am not saying I academically believe in a progressive taxation. I am saying, that I can't make more money, if there is no thriving middle class to buy things I make.
Finally I am anti-government spending. More to the point I am against throwing too much money into too many pots. What I want is a national government to set strategic goals, and make a small amount of infrastructure investment bets that will eventually lead to long term growth.
The mythology of free enterprise alone leading to national wealth growth is an urban legend. The Erie canal that connected the Atlantic Ocean to the Great Lakes turned Manhattan from an island port to the world's financial center. No canal, no skyscrapers, no free enterprise.
The same can be said by the North building a railway and telegraph system that defeated the South, kept the Union in-tact and was used by free enterprise to productively exploit western expansion. FHA and the GI Bill provided free enterprise with an unprecedented educated middle class to exploit. The national interstate highway was built, despite the national debt being 60% of GDP, allowed suburban expansion and better supply chains. Finally the Apollo program led to many inventions we use today. Most impressive though was the inspiration of a generation to become engineers and become the world's greatest inventor.
In each case, came targeted government investment and then free enterprise and wealth creation of everyone.
Today all we are doing is arguing about how a fixed amount of wealth should be distributed, instead of targeted investment for long-term wealth creation. The next big thing is a world class infrastructure and green jobs. A nation like China has the political will to win this race in a flat world. While the U.S. is still fighting 20th century battles.
Until everyone understands that one percent of us, have 24 % of the nation's wealth and are not going to spend it. Until everyone understands that wealthy people have a vested interest in a vibrant middle-class and is more than happy to pay higher taxes to achieve it. And until we realize we need a federal government to be the chief national investor instead of the chief national spender, Rome will continue to burn.
There are many, many more with money who feel exactly this way. This is an Administration of cowards, and it is sickening. Some are even conjecturing the Admin made this deal to placate the big money guys looking to 2012 election campaign contributions.
It's time to stop the blackmail for fear of the short-term pain. Repubs on TV tonight fearmongering again - "oooh, wait til next year - you won't get this good of a deal."
Which is how they have incrementally sabotaged this country - through fear.
Last edited by Ariadne22; 12-09-2010 at 06:54 PM..
It could just be that Obama doesn't need people to start paying more money in taxes and losing unemployment benefits for months at a time. This is not a permanent extension for the rich. It was a compromise that had to be made. Like they old saying goes, you have to know when to pick your battles. This was a battle that could get ugly and have too much collateral damage, the middle class and unemployed.
Now the one thing I dont understand is why they couldn;t add more weeks for 99ers. Because come 2-3 months from now that 4.5 million is going to swell to over 7 million.
Of course there isn't overwhelming support for every component. It's an all-or-nothing deal, so let's see a poll worded this way:
Are you so opposed to the 2-ear extension of Bush tax cuts for the "rich" that you are willing to give up
a) Bush tax rates for the non-rich
b) Unfunded 13-month extension of EUC
c) Payroll tax holiday
d) AMT relief for 2010
e) AMT relief for 2011
In fact, it would be cool to wait until people get their first downsized 2011 paychecks, or, if unemployed, no check at all, and ask them how they feel about it then...
This.
We'll see just how many people would turn face when they look at their paychecks and realize, they are short 100 dollars per paycheck. That is the average amount of money you will lose, 3-4k a year. The unemployed that haven't hit 99 weeks will be up in arms without any income for months.
Let's see fight and end up with political gridlock for months or compromise and give in to a temporary extension. I mean why did this surprise people here. Myself and others have been saying for a few months now that this was going to be the end game, tax cuts, unemployment extensions would go hand in hand.
It could just be that Obama doesn't need people to start paying more money in taxes and losing unemployment benefits for months at a time. This is not a permanent extension for the rich. It was a compromise that had to be made. Like they old saying goes, you have to know when to pick your battles. This was a battle that could get ugly and have too much collateral damage, the middle class and unemployed.
Now the one thing I dont understand is why they couldn;t add more weeks for 99ers. Because come 2-3 months from now that 4.5 million is going to swell to over 7 million.
Oh, these tax cuts will be made permanent. That is the GOP goal. Bush knew ten years ago there would be a huge battle when the time came to let them expire.
Unfortunately, if the buck doesn't stop here and stop now, it won't stop two years from now, either. Yes, the Admin is saying the economy will be better in two years. But the Repubs will say then, 'well the economy is better, so let's not repeal the tax cuts.' It will never end.
Why they didn't include the 99ers - because they are appeasers and knew that a 13 month extension would be easier to do and keep a majority of the unemployed quiet than ask for additional benefits for those already off the unemployment rolls - the people who are hurting the most. Kinda tells ya' something about how much they 'feel the pain.' They don't. I don't think anyone in Washington really gets it, frankly.
It may be easier for the several States to provide for their own general welfare and simply request the debts be paid; as delegated in our federal Constitution.
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