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Old 05-07-2013, 07:58 AM
 
109 posts, read 394,477 times
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Tier 2 kicked in last week. This is from a 2011 claim. When I divide the total amount of the award by the weekly amount I only come up with 13 weeks instead of 14 weeks. Did they make a mistake or is it only supposed to be for 13 weeks. I thought tier 3 was 13 weeks.

Caro-Lynn
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Old 05-07-2013, 01:50 PM
 
Location: Wisconsin
23,470 posts, read 50,002,816 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by carol7lynn View Post
Tier 2 kicked in last week. This is from a 2011 claim. When I divide the total amount of the award by the weekly amount I only come up with 13 weeks instead of 14 weeks. Did they make a mistake or is it only supposed to be for 13 weeks. I thought tier 3 was 13 weeks.

Caro-Lynn
Yes, Tier 2 remains at 14 weeks, but your weekly benefit should be been reduced 17.69%.
Quote:
As part of sequestration, Congress requires that all states cut the benefit amounts of the federal Emergency Unemployment Compensation, or EUC, program. In California, this means a cut of 17.69% on the weekly and maximum benefit amounts for all new federal extensions (tiers 1 through 4) filed with an effective date of April 28, 2013, or after.

The cuts will NOT be implemented for unemployed individuals collecting benefits in the middle of a federal extension tier. The cuts will only be taken at that point in time when the individual starts a new extension tier.

http://www.edd.ca.gov/unemployment/F...Extensions.htm
California has a sequester calculator:

http://www.edd.ca.gov/unemployment/S...Calculator.htm

If you had a full 26-week claim, you should be entitled to 14 weeks benefits. The weekly benefit, of course, would be reduced 17.69%, but nonetheless the tier remains at 14 weeks.

If you call CA, let us know what they say.

Last edited by Ariadne22; 05-07-2013 at 01:59 PM..
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Old 05-07-2013, 03:37 PM
 
109 posts, read 394,477 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ariadne22 View Post
Yes, Tier 2 remains at 14 weeks, but your weekly benefit should be been reduced 17.69%. California has a sequester calculator:

Sequestration Reduction Calculator of Federal Extension Benefits

If you had a full 26-week claim, you should be entitled to 14 weeks benefits. The weekly benefit, of course, would be reduced 17.69%, but nonetheless the tier remains at 14 weeks.

If you call CA, let us know what they say.

Thanks!

There was no problem with the amount of the sequestered weekly benefit it was spot on. I've been keeping abreast of EDDs latest developments and how it is dealing with this whole sequestration thing from the get go. I knew in advance what my sequestered weekly benefit would be. Found the calculator right after they posted it. The problem was with the total award for Tier 2; it did not equal the amount of the weekly benefit (sequestered or not) times the number of eligible weeks. It equaled the amount of the sequestered weekly benefit times times 12.97 weeks with is preposterous. Tiers deal in whole weeks not partial weeks.

Try explaining basic math to someone over the phone. Well, anyway the first person I talked to was a very nice lady but she didn't know squat. So what else is new. This is not my first rodeo with EDD. I've been collecting off and on since 2004.

What I think happened was when they wrote the computer program "patch" to comply with sequestration, they screwed-up the algorithm and/or inserted a table with inaccurate information for the number of eligible weeks for Tier 2 claimants and maybe other tiers too for all I know. I think they used Tier 3 data instead because ironically Tier 3 lasts, in my case, 13 weeks.


She actually tried convincing me, although I wasn't buying it for one second, that they not only reduced the weekly benefit amount by 17.69% but they also put at cap on the number of weeks that you could collect for Tier 2. She tried convincing me that the total number of weeks that you are eligible for on any given tier now fluctuates according to how much money you "earned in your highest quarter"-or words to that effect.

Told her that was sheer nonsense. And, she said, "No, No, it's right there on EDD's website: "Check under latest news." I told her no it's not, I have been "checking under latest news" and it's not there because it's not true. The number of eligible weeks is a set figure-they do not fluctuate. Tier 1 (20 weeks), Tier 2 (14 weeks), Tier 3 (13 weeks) and so on. She wasn't buying it. Seriously!

And I told her, "Well even if what you are saying is even remotely true, then why did the math work out to an odd number of weeks when I had never used a dime of that tier yet-i.e., Mine equaled 12.967 weeks instead of 12 weeks or 13 weeks What say you to that? Well that just flew on by her. She then tried to tell me if that were the case, then they would only pay me for 12 weeks. I told her any fifth grader can tell you the rules of rounding doesn't support that argument. They would round it up to 13 weeks not down to 12 weeks. My gawd!

She obviously thought I was talking about how EDD calculates your original 26 week claim award-i.e., total award being based on your highest quarter earnings and not the total tier award being based on your weekly benefit times the number of weeks eligible. So, she put me on hold went to EDD's web-site and found out I was right. There was nothing under latest news that said anything about the number of any Tier's eligible weeks fluctuating.

So, after much back and forth, I finally asked her to talk to a supervisor and I got a really nice guy who got what I was saying right off the bat and he's requested an audit. He also thanked me for maybe catching an error in their computer program. We will see. I've got a splitting headache.

But kudos to that lovely lady for posting that magical code to get through to EDD. It worked like a charm.

I'll keep you posted.

Carol-Lynn
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Old 05-07-2013, 04:21 PM
 
Location: Wisconsin
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Quote:
Originally Posted by carol7lynn View Post
The problem was with the total award for Tier 2; it did not equal the amount of the weekly benefit (sequestered or not) times the number of eligible weeks. It equaled the amount of the sequestered weekly benefit times times 12.97 weeks with is preposterous. Tiers deal in whole weeks not partial weeks.
Actually, that is not true. Tiers deal in a percentage of original monetary determination, not to exceed a certain number of full weeks' benefits. This does not mean that percentage must equal a certain number of full weeks. Most of the time it does, but the percentage calculation can also result in a fractional week. Many states pay out fractional weeks in original and tier benefits.

This from the BLS:
Quote:
The maximum entitlement to EUC08 Second Tier continues to be the lesser of 54 percent of the maximum regular UC entitlement or 14 times the regular UC weekly benefit amount.

For all new EUC08 Third Tier claims established for a week ending after September 2, 2012, the maximum entitlement is reduced to the lesser of 35 percent (from 50 percent) of the maximum regular UC entitlement or nine (9) times (from 13 times) the regular UC weekly benefit amount.

For all new EUC08 Fourth Tier claims established for a week ending after September 2, 2012, the maximum entitlement is the lesser of 39 percent (instead of 24 percent) of the maximum regular UC entitlement or 10 times (instead of 6 times) the regular UC weekly benefit amount.

http://wdr.doleta.gov/directives/att...hange9_acc.pdf
CA clearly states "up to" - which allows it to pay a lesser fractional amount, if they choose to so program their computers that way. I suspect there are many monetary determinations in CA which do pay fractional weeks, which is why your EDD lady talked about them. But, clearly, she has a lot of data in her brain, for most of which she has not yet connected the dots.

Let us know what CA does. Sounds like they have problems, already. You won't be the only one with this issue.
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Old 05-07-2013, 09:39 PM
 
109 posts, read 394,477 times
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Okay let me get this straight.

You said:
The maximum entitlement to EUC08 Second Tier continues to be the lesser of 54 percent of the maximum regular UC entitlement or 14 times the regular UC weekly benefit amount.

I'm lost.

During Tier One-I collected all 20 weeks at the same rate as my regular UI claim amount. $189 weekly and total amount of tier 1 award was $2,646.

So first question what is the formula for Tier 1? Because I got my original full benefit for all 20 weeks. No percentage of anything or lesser of two evils stuff.

Now on to the current case.

Before Sequestration They Said on my blank Continued Claim Form: You are eligible for tier 2 we'll file, etc. and:
Tier Two=I'd get $189 for a total award of $2,457. Which equals 13 weeks exactly. Which I
thought was wrong to begin with. I thought I'd get $189 for 14 weeks for a total award of
$189 times 14=$2,646.

After Sequestration: The Award Letter Said
Tier Two-I'd get $156 a week for a total award of $2,023. I find no problem with weekly amount.
That checks out. What I have a problem with is applying your formula. Sooooo.

Okay so lets see:

Original Maximum Benefit Amount: $4,913: Is this what you are referring to when you say maximum UC
entitlement? The Original Maximum Benefit Amount from the Original Award Letter?

Well then,
54% of original Benefit amount: $4,913 times .54= $2,721.80=Correct?

Regular UI Claim Benefit Amount was: $189
$189 times 14= $2,646

So comparing those two calculations the lesser of the two figures would be $2,646 before sequestration. Yet they said my maximum tier 2 benefit award before sequestration would be $2,457.

Now After Sequestration:
54% of Maximum Benefit Amount would remain the same:
$2,721.80. Correct? Weekly benefit is reduced 17.69% to: $156 (Got that-no problem)
$156 times 14 weeks=$2,184
So comparing those two calculation the lessor of the two would be $2,184.
But they said my total award after sequestration was $2,023 and not $2,184.
What am I doing wrong? I'm not getting it. Can you break it down using the info stated above. Once you explain Tier 2 I'll be ablle to figure the other tiers.

Thanks!
Carol-Lynn
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Old 05-07-2013, 11:18 PM
 
Location: Wisconsin
23,470 posts, read 50,002,816 times
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Quote:
So first question what is the formula for Tier 1? Because I got my original full benefit for all 20 weeks. No percentage of anything or lesser of two evils stuff.
It sounds like you began Tier 1 prior to September 2, 2012:
Quote:
For all new EUC08 First Tier claims established for a week ending after September 2, 2012 (in most states, this is the week ending September 8, 2012), the maximum entitlement is reduced to the lesser of 54 percent (from 80 percent) of the maximum regular Unemployment Compensation (UC) entitlement or 14 times (from 20 times) the regular UC weekly benefit amount.

http://wdr.doleta.gov/directives/att...hange9_acc.pdf
Also, why are you now just beginning Tier 2? You should be starting Tier 3, if you began Tier 1 last August, unless you've been working and extending your benefits.

Quote:
Original Maximum Benefit Amount: $4,913: Is this what you are referring to when you say maximum UC entitlement? The Original Maximum Benefit Amount from the Original Award Letter?
Yes.

Quote:
54% of original Benefit amount: $4,913 times .54= $2,721.80=Correct?

No. $4,913x54%= $2,653/$189 - 14.037 weeks.

Quote:
Regular UI Claim Benefit Amount was: $189
$189 times 14= $2,646
Yes.

Quote:
So comparing those two calculations the lesser of the two figures would be $2,646 before sequestration.
Yes.

Quote:
Yet they said my maximum tier 2 benefit award before sequestration would be $2,457.
That is incorrect - it should be $2,646 - unless they are looking at another claim on which EUC has not yet been exhausted. Did you have another claim in addition to the one we are discussing?

Quote:
Now After Sequestration:
54% of Maximum Benefit Amount would remain the same:
$2,721.80. Correct?
Yes - but not to exceed 14x$189, or $2,646.

Quote:
Weekly benefit is reduced 17.69% to: $156 (Got that-no problem)
$156 times 14 weeks=$2,184
Actually, CA should be figuring the sequester reduction off the actual monetary determination for Tier 2 which is $2,646, minus 17.69%, or $2,178/14 = $155.56/wk., or $2,178/156 = 13.96 weeks. CA's calculator rounds up the $189 benefit to $156. But, who knows how they've programmed the computers. Either way, it works out to about 14 weeks.

Quote:
So comparing those two calculation the lessor of the two would be $2,184.
Actually, that number should be $2,178.

Quote:
But they said my total award after sequestration was $2,023 and not $2,184. What am I doing wrong? I'm not getting it. Can you break it down using the info stated above. Once you explain Tier 2 I'll be ablle to figure the other tiers.
Eureka!! It just dawned on me. Tier 2 is comprised of 13 weeks, plus a one-week add-on, for a total of 14 weeks. CA may still be segregating that 14th week of Tier 2 and paying it at the end of Tier 3. Many states routinely did this, or treated it as an add-on at the end of Tier 2 after the initial 13 weeks were exhausted. This explains why your monetary determination for Tier 2 is for 13 weeks, instead of 14.

When you exhaust your 13 weeks, you will mysteriously find another week added to your account balance - probably before you transition to Tier 3 - or it will be paid at the end of Tier 3.

We did get these questions about that stray week a lot at one time. Geez, I forgot all about that. Guess I better refresh my memory and reread my own FAQS.

I can hardly wait to hear what CA tells you.

Last edited by Ariadne22; 05-08-2013 at 12:04 AM..
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Old 05-08-2013, 03:59 AM
 
113 posts, read 374,690 times
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It does look like they took a week away. As for fractional amounts with EDD that is exactly how my benefits are calculated as I do not receive the max benefits or weeks. I didn't with regular Benefits and didn't with my 1st tier EUC. I'm transitioning to tier 2 this week I'll let you know how mine calculates out. The fractional amounts for me help to clarify why on the final payment there is less than usual or perhaps even a week missing instead of the usual two. I can't figure how they came up with a tier benefit of 2023 instead of 2178 unless it is that reserved 14th week. your math application in all of this is a bit different then mine. I don't expect the max benefits or max weeks. I take the original u.i. award and subtract 54% with that number now I will subtract an additional 17.69% This total should be my benefit for the 2nd tier. I take my original weekly benefit and also subtract the 17.69% and this new painfully low weekly benefit is divided into that benefit for the entire tier. My total is 11.52 weeks on this next tier. My assumption by those fractions is that for 5 biweekly payments they will all be the same amount. At week 11 I should prepare to get pretty much just a little over half the usual. So as I said the fractions help so I'm not saying.. hey how come my last payment was so much less ?
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Old 05-08-2013, 08:17 AM
 
109 posts, read 394,477 times
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Ariadne22,

Thanks for walking me through this.

First off yes, I am collecting on a claim filed Sept. 2011 and yes I did work enough in 2011 to qualify for a new claim come September 2012 which came 8 weeks into Tier 1 of the 2011 claim. After I exhausted my regular 2012 claim in February of this year, I collected the remaining 8 weeks of Tier 1 from the 2011 claim.

So, we both agree then that I should get 14 weeks anyway you slice it or dice it. They should pay $156 for 13 weeks and the 14th week will come either the end of Tier 2 or the end of Tier 3 but either way I'll get it. What a bizarre-o way to do things. Who came up with that rule? Maybe we'll tack it on here and maybe will tack in on there but......Anywhohow, their on-line EUC Benefit Table is misleading-at best. To the average claimant no red flags go off upon reading the term "up to" x number of weeks since EDD doesn't explain what they mean by "up to."

Thank you for schooling me about the EUC regs. Better to be forewarned!

Carol-Lynn
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Old 05-08-2013, 01:56 PM
 
Location: Wisconsin
23,470 posts, read 50,002,816 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cosmic_me View Post
your math application in all of this is a bit different then mine. I don't expect the max benefits or max weeks. I take the original u.i. award and subtract 54% with that number now
Actually, your method incorrectly reduces your award by 54%, resulting in 46% of the original monetary award, which is not correct.

If you reread the BLS language, you will see the Tier provides 54% of the original monetary award, which is calculated by multiplying the original UI award by 54%.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cosmic_me View Post
now I will subtract an additional 17.69% This total should be my benefit for the 2nd tier. I take my original weekly benefit and also subtract the 17.69%
Correct. The sequester adjustment, however, then does reduce that 54% by 17.69%, so that part you are figuring correctly.

So, you first multiply your monetary award times 54%, and then reduce that result by 17.69%.

You can double check your calculation against this:

http://www.edd.ca.gov/unemployment/S...Calculator.htm


Quote:
Originally Posted by carol7lynn View Post
What a bizarre-o way to do things. Who came up with that rule? Maybe we'll tack it on here and maybe will tack in on there but......
There are two EUC programs, enacted at different times.

EUC08, which provided the original 13 weeks on Tier 1 and 13 weeks on Tier 2.
EUCX, which provided an additional 7 weeks on Tier 1 (for a total of 20 weeks) and 1 week on Tier 2 (for a total of 14 weeks).

When EUCX was enacted, most states did patches to their programs instead of rewriting the whole thing. Thus, back in the day when Tier 1 was 20 weeks, people would first receive account credits for 13 weeks and then later 7 weeks, which generated a lot of questions and confusion at the time. Same with Tier 2, Which is why FAQS (post 2) does mention these tiers may be paid in two parts.
Quote:
20 weeks – EUC Tier 1 (two parts EUC08 13 wks; EUCX 7 wks, often credited and paid separately in NY and some other states)
14 weeks – EUC Tier 2 (two parts 13 wks + 1 wk, 14th week often paid at end of Tier 3)

//www.city-data.com/forum/22370378-post2.html
Now, we add in reductions to those benefits, plus further sequester reductions, and here we are today - trying to make sense of all the pieces.
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Old 05-08-2013, 02:44 PM
 
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Now, we add in reductions to those benefits, plus further sequester reductions, and here we are today - trying to make sense of all the pieces.

Amen but thank god for people like you! Thanks for setting me straight.

Carol-Lynn
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