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Old 06-21-2013, 11:01 PM
 
2 posts, read 12,699 times
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I have worked for a midsized company in Oregon for approximately 10 years and over the last 5 years they have had multiple layoffs and buyouts. The current department I work in had over 20 employees when I started and has been whittled down to me, literally. Obviously the work has changed over the years but I have had a significant increase in workload recently due to the last round of buyouts (my last 2 coworkers, who made more money than I do, were laid off) and my pay has not changed for over 4 years. I have asked to be considered for a buyout 3 times in the last 3 years and have been refused each time. I have been (casually) looking for a job for some time but had no success.

Now they are doing a major reorg across the company and are asking all employees to reapply for their jobs. I was told that they were offering me my same position for the same wage (lower benefits) but I must reapply within 2 weeks or they will find someone else. I don't want the same crappy job for the same horrible pay but I feel trapped.

My question is - if I don't reapply, what are the chances I could get UI? I have been told by the HR Mgr that the company does not contest unemployment claims, which I realize does not mean my claim would be approved.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated.
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Old 06-22-2013, 02:15 AM
 
14,508 posts, read 25,902,305 times
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If you want the UI, then don't submit an application. Only the state can dictate where you apply for a job, and the odds of that happening are about zero. Your former employer can't make you apply for anything if you don't want to.

However, your former employer can offer you a job, and then you have the issue of a refusal of work, but they can't do anything if you refuse to apply. Don't refuse to apply, just don't apply. If the ask where your application is, just say, "I'm working on it," but never follow through.

Refusal's of work are much easier to deal with especially when it all occurs bundled together in a situation that you describe. Most states have what is called an "adjustment period" that is a certain amount of time to obtain a job as good or better than you had before. If their "new" position has lesser benefits, then it would most certainly be unsuitable. However, a job unsuitable the first week of UI, might be considered suitable three months later. Besides that, some states never make you go back to the place the "discharged" you because of the hard feelings involved, and the chances that the employer is just try to mess with your UI claim.

If you go this route, change your phone numbers. The employer's threat of "we'll find someone else," doesn't ring true. They might try to find someone else, but I bet the person doesn't work out, and they'll be trying to get you back, and you don't want to be easily reached so that you can't be accused of refusing an offer of work.
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Old 06-22-2013, 02:42 PM
 
17,802 posts, read 22,448,643 times
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I would not believe the HR manager who told you they never fight unemployment claims. Will they give that to you in writing? I doubt it. To me that is a red flag, you go ahead and resign and they will say you quit.

It could be they want people to reapply but the intent is after you reapply they lay you off anyway. At least that way you will not have an issue with UE. But if you refuse to reapply and they let you go, well I wouldn't believe the HR person that says they won't fight the claim.

This happened to a friend of mine, she was told she had to reapply for her position. Well it came out later they were cutting the hours to part time. They were hoping she would interview, find out at the interview your job is now part time and quit, instead she got on the stick and got another job. She was lucky in that this reapplying time frame gave her a couple of months to get out of there.

It sounds like they're hoping some people won't reapply, so they don't have to lay them off and pay UE benefits.

I would reapply and then make your "casual" search for a new job to an "extensive" search for a new job.
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Old 06-22-2013, 04:33 PM
 
2,845 posts, read 5,367,723 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by seain dublin View Post
I would reapply and then make your "casual" search for a new job to an "extensive" search for a new job.
This is exactly what I'd do.
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Old 06-22-2013, 06:28 PM
 
Location: California
4,402 posts, read 12,388,440 times
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Reapply. One of the hurdles to proving you deserve UI is that you lost your job through no fault of your own and that you did all you could to preserve the employment relationship. Reapplying shows you intended to keep the job.
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Old 06-22-2013, 09:01 PM
 
14,508 posts, read 25,902,305 times
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Here's some case law on the matter. Oregon recognizes that having to "reapply" for a job with no guarantee that you're going to get it, suggests that the employment relationship has terminated or will terminate in the near future.

She has no duty to preserve an employment relationship because she's not quitting. She's getting let go, and either wants the UI benefits or wants to get rehired for a lesser job.

Reapplying for a better job within the company may make sense or trying to get a better job at another company, but applying for that same job that she already doesn't like, that is going to have worse compensation, is a terrible thing to do. She may be so demoralized if she stays, and there will be no way to "quit" and get UI at that point because she'll have accepted the new, lesser terms and conditions.
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Old 06-23-2013, 12:07 AM
 
Location: Wisconsin
23,446 posts, read 49,926,944 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chyvan View Post
She has no duty to preserve an employment relationship because she's not quitting. She's getting let go, and either wants the UI benefits or wants to get rehired for a lesser job.

Reapplying for a better job within the company may make sense or trying to get a better job at another company, but applying for that same job that she already doesn't like, that is going to have worse compensation, is a terrible thing to do. She may be so demoralized if she stays, and there will be no way to "quit" and get UI at that point because she'll have accepted the new, lesser terms and conditions.
I agree.
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Old 06-23-2013, 12:20 AM
 
Location: California
4,402 posts, read 12,388,440 times
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I also agree. However I also stand by what I said initially. I have been on UI 3 times in my life...once when fired, once when laid off and once when I quit. I have never had to appeal as I have always been granted benefits at the initial interview. I had one of the interviewers tell me that I was not going to be denied because I covered all the bases. So, no OP has no duty to try to maintain the employment relationship. BUT trying to do so and losing the job anyway is going to help the "no fault of your own" determination by the initial examiner. As both of you tell people all the time, the "default" position is to deny. A claimant who manages to mitigate ALL circumstances that give rise to the default position has the best chance of being approved from the beginning. The more you have in your favor to convince the 1st person, the better your chances of never having to appeal.
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Old 06-23-2013, 12:42 AM
 
14,508 posts, read 25,902,305 times
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This one is different though. If she reapplies, and gets offered the job under worse conditions, then she has to deal with a "refusal of work" issue at a minimum, and it starts to look more like a quit because if she didn't want the job, she wouldn't have applied for it.

We have two competing views, but having read the posting, I really got the feeling that this poster wants OUT no matter what. The employer is handing her a pass for UI, but she only has one chance to do it. Yeah, she may get denied by a deputy who doesn't understand that being discharged doesn't mean that a claimant has to then go back to the employer and say, "Oh, but I'll do anything to keep my job. Please change your mind."

I'd much rather deal with the possible delay of having to go through an appeal rather than muddy the waters trying to stay in a job that I just don't want. So, if the poster comes back and says, "there is no second income in the household. Being with out benefits right off the bat will just be the death of me," then I might change my mind on the "correct" course of action.

If they've hand you an application to fill out, hold on to it because you can use that as evidence and say, "they told me to fill this out because I wouldn't have a job in two weeks. . ."
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Old 06-23-2013, 01:57 AM
 
Location: California
4,402 posts, read 12,388,440 times
Reputation: 3136
However, if the conditions are substantially worse, the OP can also contend with that...as for the application, as long as the deputy is smart (and that can be an issue) they should be able to see the difference between applying for any job out there and applying to keep their current job.

Hopefully OP comes back with a little more info.
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