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Old 02-22-2015, 04:02 PM
 
9 posts, read 12,222 times
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From perusing this forum, it seems having your California Unemployment Insurance Benefits balance hit zero before the claim expiration date is a common issue. My ignorance stems from 1)this being my 1st UIB claim, 2)wrong or outdated info from UIB recipients I know, and 3)outdated internet search results. Therefore this post to get correct data and possibly have some supplemental questions answered.

So it's my understanding that I'm getting no more UI benefits since my balance is $0, and IF I'm able to get SOME sort of income before the claim expiration date of 16 May 2015, THEN I can try to apply for a new claim after that date.

1-Is this correct?

2-This current claim was filed when I lost my job back in May of 2014. I was then employed for ~2.5 months from 14 July 2014 to 6 Oct 2014, for which time I received no UI benefits (stopped returning the Continued Claim forms). I reopened this current claim after I lost that 2nd job around 10 Oct 2015. Can this employment income serve as the basis of a new claim this coming May? Or sooner?

3-One of the reasons I've been unemployed for so long was that I broke my ankle on 14 Nov 2014, have been laid up since then, and should be walking again by April 2015. (My usual field of employment, Tech Support, generally requires mobility. Trust me--the interviews end very quickly when they see you walk in on crutches.) I apparently was given wrong info by a friend and told to NOT report that I was "too sick or injured to work" on the claim forms. (I know, probably illegal--they said that I would not get UI benefits that week if I did.) Can this injury be used to get continued, or some other kind of, assistance?

Thanks!
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Old 02-22-2015, 05:21 PM
 
Location: Wisconsin
25,589 posts, read 56,245,605 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mlpqlm View Post
So it's my understanding that I'm getting no more UI benefits since my balance is $0, and IF I'm able to get SOME sort of income before the claim expiration date of 16 May 2015, THEN I can try to apply for a new claim after that date.

1-Is this correct?
Yes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mlpqlm View Post
2-This current claim was filed when I lost my job back in May of 2014. I was then employed for ~2.5 months from 14 July 2014 to 6 Oct 2014, for which time I received no UI benefits (stopped returning the Continued Claim forms). I reopened this current claim after I lost that 2nd job around 10 Oct 2015. Can this employment income serve as the basis of a new claim this coming May?
Yes. Apply for a new claim on May 13 or 14th - you will avoid a waiting week by applying before the benefit-year-end. Do not apply any earlier, as this confuses the CA computers.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mlpqlm View Post
Or sooner?
No. You are allowed one claim per 52-week period.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mlpqlm View Post
3-One of the reasons I've been unemployed for so long was that I broke my ankle on 14 Nov 2014, have been laid up since then, and should be walking again by April 2015.

(My usual field of employment, Tech Support, generally requires mobility. Trust me--the interviews end very quickly when they see you walk in on crutches.) I apparently was given wrong info by a friend and told to NOT report that I was "too sick or injured to work" on the claim forms. (I know, probably illegal--they said that I would not get UI benefits that week if I did.)

Can this injury be used to get continued, or some other kind of, assistance?
You got wrong advice. It never pays to lie - especially in CA - as CA has all manner of safety nets.

http://www.edd.ca.gov/disability/DI_Eligibility.htm

Since you were collecting UI benefits at the time of the injury, what you should have done was applied for SDI through California for the period of disability. CA would have opened a separate, stand-alone SDI claim beginning Nov 2014, expiring Nov 2015,

CA would have then suspended UI payments and begun SDI payments - which are usually noticably higher than UI payments. Once you are again mobile/doctor's release, you would have resumed what was left of your UI payments. Pregnant women on UI, as an example, in and around birth of the baby, cycle between UI and SDI and back to UI every day of the week in CA. Same holds true for any disability.

Fwiw, I was a LOT older than you when I broke my ankle - went back to work after ten weeks on one crutch (albeit this was a desk job) - and was pretty much OK after 12 or 13 weeks. So, a five-month disability for a broken ankle is a bit of a stretch - although you should be able to justify at least three months SDI (instead of UI), w/CA resuming what is left of the UI after that.

At this point, it may be too late to apply for an SDI claim beginning Nov 2014. CA might also accuse you of fraud when claiming UI during a potential SDI period.

On the other hand, anything is possible in CA, so you might make a call and see where it goes. You can explain you attempted to apply for work during this period of disability, but cast/crutches were offputting to prospective employers because the mobility necessary for the job was obviously impaired - in effect you were unemployable because of this injury - and you didn't know you could have applied for SDI.

Let us know what happens.

Last edited by Ariadne22; 02-22-2015 at 05:59 PM..
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Old 02-22-2015, 05:40 PM
 
14,504 posts, read 30,913,531 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ariadne22 View Post
You got wrong advice. It never pays to lie
The lying was so unnecessary. You'd have been better served getting on disability.

Next time, ignore your friends and come here where we've either lived it or have a thread we can point you to of someone else that was successful so that you don't screw up.
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Old 02-23-2015, 11:45 AM
 
9 posts, read 12,222 times
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Thanks both of you for your help. Here's my story thus far, and a request for an opinion in the final paragraph:

I called EDD this morning. I suppose I should have not given my name and SS# when asked at the start of the call, saying it was just a general question, but I'm not good at that kind of thing. Essentially, they scheduled a phone interview to determine what I'll need to pay back and the likely 30% penalty for filing a false claim. The guy on the phone made it seem like the 30% would be taken out of any subsequent claim I'd file. (Is this correct? I asked him for clarification twice, but his answers seemed vague.)

So now I'm initiating an SDI claim. This is going to be another can of worms. I need physician certification, but the insurances (yes, more than one) and doctors I saw in November are not the same as the insurance and doctor who just did my surgery 3 weeks ago.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ariadne22 View Post
It never pays to lie...
Well, I'd argue that, but that's the topic for another thread. :/

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ariadne22 View Post
Fwiw, I was a LOT older than you when I broke my ankle - went back to work after ten weeks on one crutch (albeit this was a desk job) - and was pretty much OK after 12 or 13 weeks. So, a five-month disability for a broken ankle is a bit of a stretch...
How did you know I'm 49?

This is the can of worms I'm talking about. It took me 3 months to get the needed surgery because of screw ups on the part of Aetna--they said I was covered when I wasn't, then when time came for the surgery, they suddenly updated their records. That's on oversimplification--I won't bore you with the details.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ariadne22 View Post
At this point, it may be too late to apply for an SDI claim beginning Nov 2014. CA might also accuse you of fraud when claiming UI during a potential SDI period.
So tell me what you think of this: since they're already accusing me of fraud, and since it'll be much easier to get SDI certification from just my current podiatrist, who I first saw on 2 Feb 2015, maybe I should file my SDI claim just for February 2015. Yea, I know I'll still be lying to Unemployment ("November?! No, I said February!"), but that just seems so much easier for everyone involved, and there'd be less to payback if they really want to claim fraud.

(Does EDD read this forum? )
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Old 02-23-2015, 12:05 PM
 
14,504 posts, read 30,913,531 times
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We don't know if EDD reads it or not.

You have to know that with UI it's possible to be nearly an invalid and still qualify. You simply have to be available for SOME work in the locality. For example, a jack hammer operator or some other physically demanding job may very well get fired/quit because of a physcial condition that prevents him/her from doing THAT job, but can very well be eligible for UI because that person could do a desk job.

So that you don't have to "lie," think about what you're going through. Just when were you too sick to work? It could be that it was after your surgery, and then you might not have done anything wrong especially if you'd exhausted your benefits and weren't filing anymore.

Also, you can start gathering your doctor's notes. You can certainly be selective at establishing just when you weren't able to work. It doesn't matter that going to an interview and being on crutches caused you not to get hired. That is defined as jobs not being available to you. It's only when you can't accept the job that you are classified as not being available for the work, and even then if you are available for SOMETHING (provided you don't try to concoct a story that there's a market for people to get paid to watch TV from home while in bed in your locality unless there truly is), then give it a try.
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Old 02-23-2015, 12:36 PM
 
Location: Wisconsin
25,589 posts, read 56,245,605 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mlpqlm View Post
I called EDD this morning.

Essentially, they scheduled a phone interview to determine what I'll need to pay back and the likely 30% penalty for filing a false claim. The guy on the phone made it seem like the 30% would be taken out of any subsequent claim I'd file. (Is this correct? I asked him for clarification twice, but his answers seemed vague.)

So now I'm initiating an SDI claim. This is going to be another can of worms. I need physician certification, but the insurances (yes, more than one) and doctors I saw in November are not the same as the insurance and doctor who just did my surgery 3 weeks ago.

This is the can of worms I'm talking about. It took me 3 months to get the needed surgery because of screw ups on the part of Aetna--they said I was covered when I wasn't, then when time came for the surgery, they suddenly updated their records. That's on oversimplification--I won't bore you with the details.

So tell me what you think of this: since they're already accusing me of fraud, and since it'll be much easier to get SDI certification from just my current podiatrist, who I first saw on 2 Feb 2015, maybe I should file my SDI claim just for February 2015. Yea, I know I'll still be lying to Unemployment ("November?! No, I said February!"), but that just seems so much easier for everyone involved, and there'd be less to payback if they really want to claim fraud.
Filing for SDI with a Feb. onset of disability and only serves to reduce the amount of money you can collect under SDI and the number of weeks paid.

You WANT a claim going back to November - you will be MUCH further ahead financially - b/c SDI payments are about 20% or more higher than UI. Those extra weeks matter. Plus, a November date puts you into a different earnings base-period on which benefits are determined. Depending on your work history, that extra quarter could make a difference in the amount of the benefit. So, stick with November as the date of disability.

You have medical documentation on doctor visits, etc. when the ankle was broken in November. That's good enough to establish the date of disability, plus any other statements/bills on doctor visits.

What CA will do is calculate disability owed from November to now, deduct from that the UI already paid (and replenish the UI account), and pay the difference, less the 30% penalty of the UI overpayment. That penalty shouldn't amount to too much, and the higher SDI payments retro to November and going forward until you are again able to resume UI should go a long way to offset that. Actually, you should come out ahead, because now you've got income again.

Also, once the claim is established, you can concurrently collect SDI and/or resume UI payments AND appeal the 30% UI fraud penalty on the basis of lack of knowledge, simple error. CA ALJs are sympathetic and might very well waive that penalty. It always pays to appeal in CA.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mlpqlm View Post
How did you know I'm 49?
Because no one on here is older than me, trust me. I have a son who's 48 y/o. Broke my ankle in 2007 - do the math.

Last edited by Ariadne22; 02-23-2015 at 01:24 PM..
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Old 02-25-2015, 06:37 PM
 
9 posts, read 12,222 times
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OK, I applied for SDI today with a 14 Nov 2014 start date.

I'm assuming I'm going to have some sort of phone interview with SDI. Should I be hoping it's before my phone interview with UIB so that I have SDI's start date established, and thus the date of UIB's fraud charge and amount I have to pay back?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ariadne22 View Post
You WANT a claim going back to November - you will be MUCH further ahead financially - b/c SDI payments are about 20% or more higher than UI. Those extra weeks matter. Plus, a November date puts you into a different earnings base-period on which benefits are determined. Depending on your work history, that extra quarter could make a difference in the amount of the benefit. So, stick with November as the date of disability.
Your first post make it seem like a November start date for SDI was highly unlikely. I do have receipts from November 14th and on, trailing all the red tape I went through during the intervening months to finally get my surgery.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ariadne22 View Post
Also, once the claim is established, you can concurrently collect SDI and/or resume UI payments AND appeal the 30% UI fraud penalty on the basis of lack of knowledge, simple error. CA ALJs are sympathetic and might very well waive that penalty. It always pays to appeal in CA.
I'm inferring then that a fraud charge from UIB is really not that big of a worry. The EDD rep I talked to was very curt and gruff and almost made it seem like the state police would be at my door in a couple days.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Ariadne22 View Post
Because no one on here is older than me, trust me. I have a son who's 48 y/o. Broke my ankle in 2007 - do the math.
I guess I'm feeling that at 49, I should already have some small percentage of your wisdom.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Chyvan View Post
You have to know that with UI it's possible to be nearly an invalid and still qualify. You simply have to be available for SOME work in the locality. For example, a jack hammer operator or some other physically demanding job may very well get fired/quit because of a physcial condition that prevents him/her from doing THAT job, but can very well be eligible for UI because that person could do a desk job.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chyvan View Post
It doesn't matter that going to an interview and being on crutches caused you not to get hired. That is defined as jobs not being available to you. It's only when you can't accept the job that you are classified as not being available for the work, and even then if you are available for SOMETHING (provided you don't try to concoct a story that there's a market for people to get paid to watch TV from home while in bed in your locality unless there truly is), then give it a try.
Yes, that was sort of my thinking. Highly likely I wasn't going to get hired showing up to an interview on crutches, but I could easily do about 70% of most software/tech support responsibilities from home as long as I had an internet connection. (Where I'm living is really too far to safely hobble to public transpo, and I can't safely drive like this; I'd have to taxi or Uber.) Such jobs are hard to find, but I did look.

It was totally ignorance. My “friend,” who I trusted because he works payroll, said when I broke my ankle, “They're going to stop your unemployment if you say that you're injured, you know that, right?” I knew that, but I knew absolutely nothing about SDI. I sort of assumed that one was just SOL in my case, as seemed to be the run of my luck lately. Of course, my “friend,” just about a month ago then said, “You're eligible to file for SDI, you know that right?” Gee, thanks; no, I didn't.

They really ought to teach this stuff in school.

Which leads me to another question, just in case something like this happens again. There's a question on the UIB claim form about starting schooling. What if I had? Would they stop UIB payments? What would be the “safety net” there then? In the time I was laid up, I did get a TEFL certificate. It was not, however, anything that I could have applied for any sort of educational loans or grants or scholarships. It was simply just $150 out of pocket for an online course I had to complete in 2 months.

Thanks!
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Old 02-25-2015, 08:36 PM
 
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School and UI don't always mix. If you go to classes any time between the hours of 8 am to 5 pm Mon to Fri, it invariably raises an "able and available" issue. You have to convincingly be able to say that you'd drop out to accept full-time work and forfeit your tuition or be able to show that the same classes are offered at an alternate time that you could switch to outside of the problem hours, and until you get a job, it's ok to leave things as is. Online, weekend, and evening classes never seem to be a problem.
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Old 02-25-2015, 11:23 PM
 
Location: Wisconsin
25,589 posts, read 56,245,605 times
Reputation: 23241
Quote:
Originally Posted by mlpqlm View Post
Your first post make it seem like a November start date for SDI was highly unlikely. I do have receipts from November 14th and on, trailing all the red tape I went through during the intervening months to finally get my surgery.
I wasn't sure if CA would totally shut you down on an 11/2014 SDI appl. The rep didn't say no, so, yes, of course, try for November if you are allowed. Backdating claims in CA is not uncommon.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mlpqlm View Post
I'm inferring then that a fraud charge from UIB is really not that big of a worry. The EDD rep I talked to was very curt and gruff and almost made it seem like the state police would be at my door in a couple days.
No, they won't prosecute or institute any criminal action.
Quote:

I guess I'm feeling that at 49, I should already have some small percentage of your wisdom.
LOL - if you're anything at all like my son/dil, you probably have a way to go. It's a generational thing. I knew a lot in my 40s - but not nearly enough. Would like to have those years back.


Quote:
Originally Posted by mlpqlm View Post
Which leads me to another question, just in case something like this happens again. There's a question on the UIB claim form about starting schooling. What if I had? Would they stop UIB payments? What would be the “safety net” there then?
CA needs to approve your school schedule to determine Able and Available - in other words do you have enough time to search for work, can you drop school or rearrange your schedule in order to accept work if offered to you? No safety net if CA determines you aren't A&A, other than food stamps and social assistance.
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Old 03-06-2015, 03:40 PM
 
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An update:

My podiatrist at Kaiser agreed to fill out the "Work Activity Status Form" that they file with SDI, starting from 14 Nov 2014 through 19 Apr 2015. Whew! That saves me a lot of hassle.

Kaiser's now going to file what they need to with SDI, and explained that because I'm past the 49-day limit to file for SDI, I should fill out the appeal form that I'll get in the mail in about 10 days to try to have that backdated.

I also had a phone interview with UIB just now, essentially verifying that I was injured from Nov until currently. I explained that I didn't report the injury back then because I had no idea SDI even existed, which is the truth.

So far, so good.
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