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I have been laid off from a full time job with typical benefits a short time ago. I filed for unemployment insurance in Minnesota. My previous employer I was laid off from has now has very vaguely indicated that he 'may' try to bring me back part time with no health insurance, no 401k, etc, and provided no specific information about any potential wages or hours per week, and no starting date. So I don't have any legitimate offer. However, my question is, if such offer materializes, do I have to accept it and start this part time job with my previous employer? Will I loose Minnesota unemployment insurance if I do not come back part time to my former employer? Would this offer be viewed as a suitable offer by Minnesota UI?
(If the job offer actually comes my way, I expect that this hypothetical part time job will be less than 50% of my previous full time hours, with no health insurance or retirement savings, and I may have a longer commute, up to 2x longer to a different location).
Do I have to come back to the part time offer or else go without unemployment?
Any advice, comment or information would be greatly appreciated!
The odds are in your favor, but you have to tell your story right. On the surface, a job that you were fired from is unsuitable. Were you were really laid off or were you kind of fired and they just didn't make things rough for you?
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Originally Posted by contemi
So I don't have any legitimate offer.
I suggest you get a new phone number immediately. Don't take any chances.
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Originally Posted by contemi
start this part time job with my previous employer?
Whether "part time" matters depends on your occupation. If you worked as a clerk in a convenience store, probably doesn't matter. If you work as a nurse in a doctor's office, it could. You have to ask yourself, "what is prevailing for my occupation?"
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Originally Posted by contemi
Will I loose Minnesota unemployment insurance
It's a maybe, but the key is "suitable" work AND "prevailing."
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Originally Posted by contemi
with no health insurance or retirement savings,
Think about your occupation. Do most people have or not have these benefits?
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Originally Posted by contemi
I may have a longer commute, up to 2x longer to a different location
This is a function of absolute time, absolute distance, and the ratio of your earnings vs transportation expenses.
You can be offered a job that pays $1,000,000 per year, but if it too far, it's just too far.
You can be offered a job that pays $1,000,000 per year and have no car, and if it takes you too long to get there by bus/walking, then it takes too long.
You can be offered a job that pays $10/hr for a 1-hour shift, and is a 2-mile bus ride from your house with a $4/round trip fare. $4/$10 is too much money spent going to work for what you get in income.
Your first strategy is avoid the offer by dropping off the face of the earth as best you can. I can't even believe you are in contact with your former employer. That is a huge NO-NO.
I was not fired, I was laid off from a full time position with benefits. I had a very good annual performance review in writing shortly prior to my lay off, the company shut down my location point entirely, everybody I worked with is gone as well. I have paperwork that said "my position is being eliminated due to the company's loss of finances and contracts". And another email from my former employer stating that "they were grateful for my performance and the lay off is not performance based".
For my occupation, I am college educated, I think it's typical to have a full time job with health insurance and 401k.
About contact: this is my first job loss in my life and I am admittedly naive about these things. I answered a strange phone call that contained no specific offer and we had a hypothetical 'maybe' chat. Another issue, is if my former employer offers reasonable enough conditions for my part time come back and it's about 50% of my previous hours and a desirable location, then I may strangely consider the offer. But if 20% of previous hours and a bad location, that would not be helpful to me. I told the employer that if I hear specifics I would 'absolutely consider' them. The employer asked again, as though I wasn't heard, and I repeated that, also asking him to tell me what specifics may be if they arise.
But I wonder if the hypothetical offer which hasn't come yet is just a trap to set me up for being fired again without unemployment. It's hard to imagine they'd bother with that, or that my claim caused them any substantial financial issue, but who knows, maybe they are really hurting financially with my UI benefits?
I was not fired, I was laid off from a full time position with benefits. I had a very good annual performance review in writing and a raise shortly prior to my lay off, the company shut down my location point entirely, everybody I worked with is gone as well. I have paperwork that said "my position is being eliminated due to the company's loss of finances and contracts". And another email from my former employer stating that "they were grateful for my performance and the lay off is not performance based".
You're not getting it. By playing this card, you're throwing away the easiest way to get a job declared "unsuitable." This story tells the world you should be tickled pink to go back to work for these people. There is no reason to believe that your employer is trying to get a second bite at the apple to have you gone, and get your UI denied.
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Originally Posted by contemi
For my occupation, I am college educated, I think it's typical to have a full time job with health insurance and 401k.
"College educated" doesn't mean anything. It's based on your job duties. "Health insurance" and "401K" might not be meaningful either. If your employer contributes next to nothing for your premiums or matching contributions, then the value is close to zero, and you'd be better served making a stink about not accruing vacation, holiday, and a lesser extent sick time.
Think MONEY, and what you can assign a value to.
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Originally Posted by contemi
About contact: this is my first job loss in my life and I am admittedly naive about these things. I answered a strange phone call that contained no specific offer and we had a hypothetical 'maybe' chat. Another issue, is if my former employer offers reasonable enough conditions for my part time come back and it's about 50% of my previous hours, I may strangely consider the offer. I told the employer that if I hear specifics I would 'absolutely consider' them. The employer asked again, as though I wasn't heard, and I repeated that. But I wonder if the hypothetical offer which hasn't come yet is just a trap to set me up for being fired again without unemployment. It's hard to imagine they'd bother with that, or that my claim caused them any substantial financial issue, but who knows, maybe they are really hurting financially with my UI benefits?
I don't know what your end game is.
For people that don't make big money, UI replaces about 50% of your pay. So if you're working 50%, and getting paid 50%, and not getting your UI, then you're are working for FREE. As in, you're giving up hours of your life for exactly what you'd get staying home, sleeping in, and having fun.
The UI does cost your employer. Every dollar you get in UI, your employer is footing the bill against their reserve account. They are probably figuring out that if they bring you back part time, that instead of paying you to stay home, they can get some work out of you.
You want the employer to put you into the exact job you had before, or not at all.
There can be reasons to go back part time like when your UI is run out. The decision of part-time work vs no money is easy to make, but I wouldn't want to work for about the same as I can get on UI staying home. I have better things to do with my time than work for free.
Employers pay a base rate tax on all qualified wages on every employee. The base rate is the minimum they pay and is set by law for the entire year. However, the experience rating is above and beyond the base rate is computed from all chargeable claims. The more chargeable claims, the more and longer the added tax must be paid on all qualified wages for all employees. Many employers don't even comprehend the increase until they get their next quarterly tax rate. This is when they freak out.
Being laid off doers present a problem because being that it wasn't a firing, you don't have the "bad blood" or "out to get you" justification to refuse a suitable offer. Unemployment gives a bit of wiggle room when a person was fired and suddenly the boss is making offers that border on suitability. The second issue is prevailing under the condition of the position is a moving target. It's not what you think the job should or does offer, it's what the state has listed for similar positions based on annual employer job and compensation reporting. If there are several positions for the work you do that is offering less and no positions that paid what you were making, if the chances of you finding a position paying your former wages is unlikely, the bar for suitability just got lowered.
The last thing is part-time is tricky because you also have just compensation issues. Working 8 hours at prevailing wages spread over 3 days is unsuitable. But if the 8 hours was all on a single day, unsuitable has to jump to other factors.
Chyvan, OK, I think I am following your drift about unsuitable and firing.
It's true I'd be working 50% hours for free instead of nearly 6 months of UI if it were to last that long.
It would only make sense to me if I could stretch that part time job offer to last at least a year and a half or more... Then I'd get a longer (part time) break of reduced work hours with a job I know well, which is routine to me, that may or may not offer me the conditions that make this proposal attractive, at the expense of loosing a higher salary for that period of time. I may use the extra time to see if I can start my own part time business.
Another consideration I had, I'd get not only a break on these part time hours, but also a better chance of landing a really good job eventually. I heard it's easier to find a better job only while still employed. Versus looking for one when unemployed. Realistically I may really start freaking out 4 months later on UI about not having a job if I don't have it by then.
Rabrrita, so the employer saw some new numbers and is shifting to see if his losses can be reduced with me working part time... Makes some sense to me. But if only 8 hours on one day a week are offered and I still have to take this offer or risk going without any UI, my understanding is that I will still be getting some unemployment insurance for the difference to make up to my past 50% of salary. So I'd just have to work some time then and may not have a choice. I wonder if I can ask UI office directly by calling them or if that would be a bad idea to ask about what kind of an offer do I have to accept.
However, if they want me to work 2 hours on Mon, Wed and Fri I may be able to refuse that altogether and keep UI?
Chyvan, I am talking about starting my business with 50% of hours worked in the future, in the next year and a half or so, not while on UI right now. Although I had a friend in MN who was on some program with UI of starting own business nevertheless, a while back. I don't know how accurate this is.
But if the system wants me to seek my dream job right now and they will just allow me to reject a part time offer from my former employer, I think I can dig that too.
Rabrrita, so the employer saw some new numbers and is shifting to see if his losses can be reduced with me working part time... Makes some sense to me. But if only 8 hours on one day a week are offered and I still have to take this offer or risk going without any UI, my understanding is that I will still be getting some unemployment insurance for the difference to make up to my past 50% of salary. So I'd just have to work some time then and may not have a choice. I wonder if I can ask UI office directly by calling them or if that would be a bad idea to ask about what kind of an offer do I have to accept.
However, if they want me to work 2 hours on Mon, Wed and Fri I may be able to refuse that altogether and keep UI?
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Originally Posted by contemi
who was on some program with UI of starting own business
We don't have people from MN reporting their experience, but NY has a similar program, and it hasn't received glowing reviews.
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Originally Posted by contemi
But if the system wants me to seek my dream job right now and they will just allow me to reject a part time offer from my former employer, I think I can dig that too.
You're confusing two things. The UI people never tell anyone what jobs to look for. They pretty much got out of that business in the 1970s. Your work search is all your own doing. Look for the jobs you want. However, if you go around looking for part-time work to meet your work search requirement, the UI people will expect you to take it.
The point is avoid jobs you know are part time or crappy, and apply for the best places and jobs in town. Also, don't tell family or neighbors you are out of work, or in trying to be well meaning, they are just trying to point you to jobs that you'd only take when you're desperate, and then make life difficult trying to accuse you of "refusing a referral."
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