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Oh. You won’t be able to delete them after an hour. It’s ok - I just figured it would be easier to get a clean strategy together with everything in one place.
Ok. EVERY employer in his base period will be part of the claim in his case, which looks like all three. In order to purge a quit or a misconduct term, he needs to exceed the earnings or time thresholds. This can be in a combination of employers.
So, if he is denied at his appeal, you can refile with the most recent separation. The Employer 2 one will be in play and need to be adjudicated as well as the most recent separation.
Have you thought of a limited POA for these issues?
Hi Skipito
First: I now have a durable POA for my son. Do I need to send that to the ALJ so that I can speak for him at the hearing?
Second: The hearing has been scheduled for April 22nd. Its the same OAR laws as the last one (All the misconduct ones). I want to make sure Im understanding correctly. In the paperwork from UI it says that his denial begins Sept 19, 2019 and goes until he has made 4 times his weekly benefit amount (so in essence, $1524) from future employers. He has made a total of $3320 from the 2 subsequent employers - So, IF we lose this appeal then we can apply based on this last employer discharge, correct?
Third: As far as the hearing itself - they are saying he was discharged for misconduct: that he neglected the person he was caring for, and that he was spoken to before about neglecting the person he was caring for. However he was never counselled, and he was told he was being fired for attendance (because they had this point system in place, and he went over his points). Can they just SAY they counselled him or do they have to have some kind of proof? Also, they had told him he was 'MIA' for 2 and half hours at one point - it was 2 other workers who said this happened (but it didnt) - what kind of proof do they need in order to have what those two workers said, be valid?
I apologize if these are silly questions, I am just so 'done' with all the UI S*** - its been going on, it seems, FOREVER lol
Hi Skipito
First: I now have a durable POA for my son. Do I need to send that to the ALJ so that I can speak for him at the hearing?
It won't necessarily allow you to speak for him completely (he will have to answer for any first person experiences or questions), but you can be there to advise. I'm assuming though, that this is a phone/virtual hearing? If so, provide that to the ALJ for sure ahead of time.
Quote:
Second: The hearing has been scheduled for April 22nd. Its the same OAR laws as the last one (All the misconduct ones). I want to make sure Im understanding correctly. In the paperwork from UI it says that his denial begins Sept 19, 2019 and goes until he has made 4 times his weekly benefit amount (so in essence, $1524) from future employers. He has made a total of $3320 from the 2 subsequent employers - So, IF we lose this appeal then we can apply based on this last employer discharge, correct?
Correct - you'll be able to apply again, so this appeal is really more of a back pay issue - and to free up your right to apply.
Quote:
Third: As far as the hearing itself - they are saying he was discharged for misconduct: that he neglected the person he was caring for, and that he was spoken to before about neglecting the person he was caring for. However he was never counselled, and he was told he was being fired for attendance (because they had this point system in place, and he went over his points). Can they just SAY they counselled him or do they have to have some kind of proof? Also, they had told him he was 'MIA' for 2 and half hours at one point - it was 2 other workers who said this happened (but it didnt) - what kind of proof do they need in order to have what those two workers said, be valid?
I apologize if these are silly questions, I am just so 'done' with all the UI S*** - its been going on, it seems, FOREVER lol
Kind Regards
Kacey
This is the first employer, correct?
OK - if they're on record with that he was terminated for dereliction of job duties, they're going to have to provide proof for it to rise to the level of misconduct.
Do you already have the hearing file?
Are there any admissions or statements from your son on file that would back this up?
Does the employer have anything about attendance in their statements in the file?
They CAN say they've counselled him, however, it holds very little weight without documentation - and it would have to be presented by the exact person that provided the counselling. If they try to introduce this without that very person physically present (or on the phone), immediately object to this evidence as hearsay. Now, hearsay is admissible in UI, but it must be given the weight due. If the person is there, press them on the exact dates, times and place of the conversation.
In order to prove the MIA thing, they'll need again to provide those two workers, or some other type of documentation. If they do not, object again to this being presented.
Whatever YOU do, do not introduce the attendance issue, if at all possible. If you son cannot recall the exact date, time and person that delivered that message, then he should say "I don't recall why I was terminated, but here they're saying XXXX"
The good thing is that you're in a position that if you do lose, you just reapply with the new separation, just be really careful with how you fill that paperwork out
It won't necessarily allow you to speak for him completely (he will have to answer for any first person experiences or questions), but you can be there to advise. I'm assuming though, that this is a phone/virtual hearing? If so, provide that to the ALJ for sure ahead of time.
Correct - you'll be able to apply again, so this appeal is really more of a back pay issue - and to free up your right to apply.
This is the first employer, correct?
OK - if they're on record with that he was terminated for dereliction of job duties, they're going to have to provide proof for it to rise to the level of misconduct.
Do you already have the hearing file?
Are there any admissions or statements from your son on file that would back this up?
Does the employer have anything about attendance in their statements in the file?
They CAN say they've counselled him, however, it holds very little weight without documentation - and it would have to be presented by the exact person that provided the counselling. If they try to introduce this without that very person physically present (or on the phone), immediately object to this evidence as hearsay. Now, hearsay is admissible in UI, but it must be given the weight due. If the person is there, press them on the exact dates, times and place of the conversation.
In order to prove the MIA thing, they'll need again to provide those two workers, or some other type of documentation. If they do not, object again to this being presented.
Whatever YOU do, do not introduce the attendance issue, if at all possible. If you son cannot recall the exact date, time and person that delivered that message, then he should say "I don't recall why I was terminated, but here they're saying XXXX"
The good thing is that you're in a position that if you do lose, you just reapply with the new separation, just be really careful with how you fill that paperwork out
Hi Skipito
Thank you!
The ONLY paperwork hes received as been the paperwork telling him when the hearing will be (yes, phone hearing) but nothing from the other side as far as any files, documentation, in the paperwork- although they have time to send that.
My son did say that he was fired for attendance when the guy said that it would now go to Employer 1 (since he didnt make enough at Employer 2) . I had told him not to even answer the phone from UI, but he did
When we sent in the appeal request we put 'I'd like to appeal because I was denied based on incorrect information from XXXX company"
I have a feeling the exact people wont be on the phone, because it seems its the main corporate office back East that the paperwork went to. (My hope is that they dont even bother their arses to show up! But I hoped the same thing last time too and they did lol)
Re the POA, Ok - Got it
Thank you so so so so much Skipito!!
Kind Regards
Kacey
update:
So we started the hearing yesterday. They had the Manager, a person from HR and an attorney!! Then me and my son.
They had apparently sent files/documents to enter into evidence - they did NOT send a copy to my son. The judge asked if they did and they claimed to have sent it to his email address. (I monitor the email address, and it was not sent - or it didnt arrive, anyway).
The judge asked if I (as my sons rep) objected to the file being entered into evidence and I said that yes I did object, because without knowing what was in the file, I couldnt offer a comprehensive rebuttal.
He agreed, and said that the hearing will now be May 6th and told the other side that they MUST send the files ASAP (he repeated that 3 different times) to my son at his HOME address by REAL mail. LOL
Anyway.... so we will have to wait now to take care of business.
The fact that they have an attorney representing them makes me think that theres something 'more' going on here. It also makes me a just a wee bit nervous going up against them!
Kacey
Soooo... Im wondering if this scenario would apply?
I was reading through the forum and came across a post that made me decide to actually read the CARES act. And when I did... I came across something...
It says that IF you are disqualified from UI (as in... 'regular' UI) because you didnt make enough $ then you may be qualified for the PUA.
My son was fired from his job - he was denied - we had a hearing - the denial was overturned. BUT... then UI said that they had to go back to his former employer because he had made $3.26 too little to actually qualify under the employer under whom the hearing denial was overturned. Under the former employer - he was denied - and we are having a hearing with them.
However.... should he not have rec'd the PUA under the concept that he didnt make enough to qualify ?
I was reading through the forum and came across a post that made me decide to actually read the CARES act. And when I did... I came across something...
It says that IF you are disqualified from UI (as in... 'regular' UI) because you didnt make enough $ then you may be qualified for the PUA.
My son was fired from his job - he was denied - we had a hearing - the denial was overturned. BUT... then UI said that they had to go back to his former employer because he had made $3.26 too little to actually qualify under the employer under whom the hearing denial was overturned. Under the former employer - he was denied - and we are having a hearing with them.
However.... should he not have rec'd the PUA under the concept that he didnt make enough to qualify ?
This is noted in Change 1 to 16-20 Letter from DOL to states. Was the job he was fired from his last job or job before last one? To me it sounds like like they will allow job separations from prior jobs to "slide" but he would still have had to be separated from last job due to COVID 19 reason. That's my spin on it.
33. Question: If an individual is disqualified for regular UC because of a job separation that
occurred prior to the individual’s unemployment due to COVID-19, is he or she
potentially eligible for PUA?
Answer: Yes. If the individual is disqualified from regular UC for a cause that occurred
prior to the individual’s COVID-19 related reason, he or she may be eligible for PUA.
This includes an individual who has a prior fraud disqualification.
PUA is a benefit of last resort for anyone who does not qualify for other UC programs
and who would be able and available to work but for one or more of the COVID-19
related reasons listed in section 2102 of the CARES Ac
These two questions might apply to him.
30. Question: An individual is not eligible for regular UC because he or she has not earned
requalifying wages since the prior UC claim (double dip provision). Is he or she eligible
for PUA?
Answer: Yes. Provided the individual is unemployed, partially unemployed, or unable or
unavailable to work because of at least one of the COVID-19 related reasons listed in
section 2102(a)(3)(A)(ii)(I) of the CARES Act, then the individual may be eligible for
PUA.
31. Question: An individual is disqualified on a claim filed prior to March 2020 and must
earn requalifying wages before he or she can be considered eligible for regular
UC. However, due to COVID-19, he or she has not had the opportunity to earn sufficient
wages to be eligible for regular UC. Can this individual be eligible for PUA?
Answer: Yes. Provided the individual is unemployed, partially unemployed, or unable or
unavailable to work because of at least one of the COVID-19 related reasons listed in
section 2102(a)(3)(A)(ii)(I) of the CARES Act, then the individual may be eligible for
PUA.
Im pretty sure if he applies this time, it will be denied on the basis that the employer will say he quit without notice... but my son has the proof that he was not on the updated schedule.
I advised my son to call the BIG boss and ask for his assistance (since he was the one who actually hired my son) and say there was a miscommunication and could he please assist with unsnarling it. Im hoping this will work as this has been one nightmare after another!
Kind Regards
Kacey
The top boss might very well over-rule. Worth a shot. Don't get combative and adversarial with the company just yet.
By "proof" do you mean he has a picture? His memory of it and insistence on what it said is not proof.
The top boss might very well over-rule. Worth a shot. Don't get combative and adversarial with the company just yet.
By "proof" do you mean he has a picture? His memory of it and insistence on what it said is not proof.
he has a screen shot on his phone of his work schedule - which shows that he was scheduled for ONLY 4 hours that week... (and those 4 hours show him working ONLY friday) and it also shows the following week where he is supposed to ONLY work monday and friday. The screen shot is dated.. and the dates of the scheduled work days are dated.
It was really odd... because 2 weeks prior, when he took the screen shot, it showed him working both thursdays... but then the week prior an 'updated' weekly schedule was posted on the work website and it showed him working only on friday and then the following week only on monday and friday. When he tried to ask his sup, he was told that 'the schedule is the schedule' (or something to that effect) so he didnt question it further.
When he showed up on friday he was told that he was a 'no call no show'. He said that he showed as 'off' the schedule. His sup said he doesnt care what the schedule says... but that my son should KNOW that he works on Thursdays.
My son just thought that due to COVID, and him being the last hired... it was his hours that were being cut because the other 2 employees had been there for a long time.
I THINK what happened is that his employer wanted to let him go, because of the slowing of business but didnt want to get hit with UI for laying my son off... so they did this 'workaround'.
I THINK any other employer would have called my son, to make sure he : 1) knew he was working that day
2) to make sure my son was ok. 3) to determine if my son was going to show up (or was just late for some reason) - but they didnt.. they (allegedly) just had the 'big boss' drive all the way (about 20 miles) over and work my sons shift for him.
When my son called to speak to the 'big boss' ... the big boss said he doesnt care what the work schedule said... because my son doesnt have access to it anymore because he's fired. To ME that is and odd thing to say.
Kind Regards
Kacey
Last edited by kaceyellis; 04-30-2020 at 09:23 AM..
Reason: to add
This is exactly what you were advised by a prior poster. The PUA option is a fall back for this claim, but your timing was just ahead of the actual implementation of PUA.
The advantage to winning this appeal is ALL of the back weeks of UI being paid.
This is exactly what you were advised by a prior poster. The PUA option is a fall back for this claim, but your timing was just ahead of the actual implementation of PUA.
The advantage to winning this appeal is ALL of the back weeks of UI being paid.
Ah I misunderstood. I thought what skipito was saying was that if he wins this one, he gets the back money (he wont win this one, I dont think) but if he loses this one, then he can file a brand new claim under his last employer (which was not the one he didnt make enough at) ... although that too will be denied and a fight because his employer will say he was a 'no call no show' ... so we will have to do the hearing blahblahblah.
I was thinking that because the middle job (the second one) they said he didnt make enough at by $3.26, they should have allowed it under the pua.. rather than say he now has to be considered under the prior employer to that one.
Something I read in the CARES act is that anything going back as far as Feb 2nd until July 25th qualifies under the PUA... so I dont think he did miss the implementation of it. Ill have to double check the day he won the appeal hearing. I want to say it was March 22nd.
Last edited by kaceyellis; 04-30-2020 at 02:24 PM..
Reason: to add
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Soooo... Im wondering if this scenario would apply?
