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Old 01-20-2011, 12:05 AM
 
Location: SC Foothills
8,831 posts, read 10,472,388 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Smooth from ELP View Post
Animals do not have spirits so they dont go to heaven. Humans were made in the image of God. We are a three part being....physical body, soul (mind and emotions), and the spirit (the part that is in constant communication with God).
Oh I beg to differ that animals don't go to heaven, they most certainly do and will.

Isaiah 11:6
The wolf will live with thelamb, the leopard will lie down with the goat, the calf and the lion and the yearling together; and a little child will lead them.

Isaiah 65:25
The wolf and the lamb will feed together, and the lion will eat straw like the ox, and dust will be the serpent’s food. They will neither harm nor destroy on all my holy mountain,” says the LORD.

Nowhere in scripture does it say that a being has to have a spirit to go to heaven.
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Old 01-20-2011, 12:15 AM
 
Location: SC Foothills
8,831 posts, read 10,472,388 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by averageperson View Post
Have you had one?
Please describe

Do animals go to heaven?
Yes, I've had a NDE. Unfortunately, it's not what most fundamental Christians believe. I'm a Christian Universalist but it has no bearing on what I believe about what happens when we die....it's based solely on my own experience.

If you visit the Christianity sub-forum you will see all kinds of debates about what happens when we die but in my experience nothing happens. When we die, we're dead. When I was brought back to life I had no recollection of anything that happened and it was as though no time had passed at all. It was nothingness, nada, zilch, zero. We will know nothing until the resurrection, at which time it will seem like no time has passed at all. It won't even seem like a second has passed.

And yes, animals go to heaven. That I am sure of.
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Old 01-20-2011, 12:24 AM
 
Location: Valencia, Spain
16,167 posts, read 11,276,864 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fuzzymystic View Post
My mom said she had a near death experience, when she carried a baby full term, and the baby was stillborn, she died too. I don't know a lot of details because this wasn't something we talked about very often. Anyway, she said she left her body and she could see the doctor and she could see my dad crying.
...and how did she manage to tell you all this. You said....

"the baby was stillborn, she died too".


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Old 01-20-2011, 12:45 AM
 
Location: SW Missouri
15,849 posts, read 32,087,176 times
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I think when you die the electromagnetic charge that is your "lifeforce" (aka "soul") is release into the ethers and is attracted by other electromagnetic charges. I believe this is the explanation of the lighted tunnel that so many people apparently see. Most likely, at death a persons vibrational frequency is altered to the degree that many unseen things become visible.

I believe also that as an electromagnetic charge can be attracted by a similar positive charge, they can be repulsed by a negative charge. This would explain how they are able to leave their "cloud" and return to animate a baby at birth. Every primitive faith that existed before Christianity (and even Early Christianity), believed in reincarnation. It seems odd that this UNIVERSAL belief would evolve simultaneously over the entire earth if there were no basis in fact. Just because primitive man did not have an understanding of electromagnetic charge and simply used his own lexicon to describe the process does not make it invalid in my opinion.

People who champion the philosophy that "when you die, you die", cannot give any reasonable explanation of WHERE new life comes FROM. I suppose they say.... "When you live, you live" But anyone who is not willing to admit that there is SOMETHING involved in being alive that cannot be explained away by rational humanistic philosophy.

There are two concepts that I believe is true. One is that energy is never destroyed or CREATED, but simply changes form and two, that everything that is created in nature serves a purpose. Yes our coporeal bodies are here to maintain the cycle of the earth, but if not to continue beyond this mortal coil, what are our spirits created for?

Food for thought. Great thread!

20yrsinBranson
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Old 01-20-2011, 12:52 AM
 
10,452 posts, read 11,287,123 times
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I have had out-of-body experiences. They're not NDE's in that my life wasn't really in danger but at the time I thought it was. I could see perfectly despite being physically blind during all of them. I don't know how to explain it exactly and don't like to pretend like I know it all when I don't. Al I know is that there is much more to reality than the physical.
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Old 01-20-2011, 03:50 AM
 
Location: Northridge/Porter Ranch, Calif.
23,414 posts, read 29,355,119 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TaoistDude View Post
I haven't had one, but research has shown they're due to oxygen deprivation during near-death experiences. Nothing mystical or religious about, I'm happy to say.
Oxygen deprivation explains some of them, but certainly not all of them.
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Old 01-20-2011, 03:59 AM
 
Location: Sango, TN
24,874 posts, read 22,255,815 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ilene Wright View Post
Oh I beg to differ that animals don't go to heaven, they most certainly do and will.

Isaiah 11:6
The wolf will live with thelamb, the leopard will lie down with the goat, the calf and the lion and the yearling together; and a little child will lead them.

Isaiah 65:25
The wolf and the lamb will feed together, and the lion will eat straw like the ox, and dust will be the serpent’s food. They will neither harm nor destroy on all my holy mountain,” says the LORD.

Nowhere in scripture does it say that a being has to have a spirit to go to heaven.
These passages aren't talking about animals going to heaven. They are talking about enemies living in peace, under one king that unites the world.

I happen to believe that every living thing is connected, a part of one another, the ebb and flow of the universe, everything is together and united. When you die, you remain a part of that, and what you learn, who you are, what you represent will be a part of the life that goes on beyond you. Is there consciousness after death? I don't know, anyone who tells you they can prove to you what happens after death is full of crap.

Until you're dead, you just don't know, which is why they call it faith. If you came back, you weren't dead.

To die, that would be a great adventure.
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Old 01-20-2011, 05:12 AM
 
2,958 posts, read 2,303,660 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mercury Cougar View Post
People may have what they call a "NDE" but it's nothing supernatural. There's a clear scientific reason for what they experience. It's certainly not the "soul" leaving the body and seeing a glimpse of "heaven".
That crap about the narrow tunnel and the bright light has been perfectly described by experts. It's normal body function as the blood flow to the brain is terminated. It explains why folks whose heart stops beating for any reason sometimes experience the same thing. Death is dying...that's why they call it dead. Nobody ever died and lived to tell about it.

Last edited by Melvin.George; 01-20-2011 at 05:54 AM..
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Old 01-20-2011, 06:04 AM
 
Location: Texas
1,304 posts, read 1,938,085 times
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While I don't take these NDEs as proof of anything, I do find them intresting to read about. What I'm more interested in is what were to happen if you didn't come back

I've read stories of atheists who've had them and had positive experiences, and believers who've had them and experienced nothing. There doesn't seem to be one particular trick for getting them to work right, so to speak. What's always fun is listening to the christian explanation as to why people of different belief systems didn't see the horrors of hell for rejecting Jesus.

I can't say I've personally had any contact with this assumed afterlife. Watching 2001 A Space Odyssey while wasted is about as close as I've come to that, I do believe.

About the weirdest experience I've had would be considered an OBE (outer body experience) when I was still a teen. I woke up one morning, got up out of bed, looked back down and realized I was still laying there. I wondered around the house for a few minutes till I heard my mom telling me to get up. As soon as she did, I ran over to my body and jumped back in. I woke up a split second afterwards. Now, there's no way in hell this can count for much. It was a school day and there's no way the "real me" would have wanted to get up and go to school
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Old 01-20-2011, 06:16 AM
 
2,191 posts, read 4,402,653 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mercury Cougar View Post
People may have what they call a "NDE" but it's nothing supernatural. There's a clear scientific reason for what they experience. It's certainly not the "soul" leaving the body and seeing a glimpse of "heaven".
Soul's, supernatural, and heaven are all man made words and ideas. As such, it's just men trying to understand things they can't figure out. Kind of like how religion is used.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mgt04 View Post
Yup it all has to do with synapses and stuff that goes on in your brain. Science can't explain it fully yet but of course religion is that arrogant that it has an explanation for everything and has its followers believing they temporarily went to heaven or something.
There are documented NDE's where the person's brain has flat lined. Procedures known as hypothermic cardiac arrest in order to fix aneurysms have been used on people and they still had a NDE. If the brain is not functioning how do you explain that?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ilene Wright View Post
Oh I beg to differ that animals don't go to heaven, they most certainly do and will.

Isaiah 11:6
The wolf will live with thelamb, the leopard will lie down with the goat, the calf and the lion and the yearling together; and a little child will lead them.

Isaiah 65:25
The wolf and the lamb will feed together, and the lion will eat straw like the ox, and dust will be the serpent’s food. They will neither harm nor destroy on all my holy mountain,” says the LORD.

Nowhere in scripture does it say that a being has to have a spirit to go to heaven.
Those verses have nothing to do with animals going to heaven. The correct meaning is that when God returns all animals will live peacefully under him. It says absolutely nothing about heaven. It's also total hogwash but in America you're free to believe in the flying spaghetti monster if you so desire.

Heaven is a consensus created fabrication in the upper tiers of the astral environment. If sitting around for all eternity spewing glossolalia to some imaginary dead carpenter is your idea of fun, then you'll get all you can handle and more. I'll also assure you that animals absolutely do not go there as they don't believe in Jesus as their personal Lord and savior.
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