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Even if we disregard the overwhelming evidence for the dependence of consciousness on the brain, there remains strong evidence from reports of near-death experiences themselves that NDEs are not glimpses of an afterlife. This evidence includes:
(1) discrepancies between what is seen in the out-of-body component of an NDE and what's actually happening in the physical world;
(2) bodily sensations incorporated into the NDE, either as they are or experienced as NDE imagery;
(3) encountering living persons during NDEs;
(4) the greater variety of differences than similarities between different NDEs, where specific details of NDEs generally conform to cultural expectation;
(5) the typical randomness or insignificance of the memories retrieved during those few NDEs that include a life review;
(6) NDEs where the experiencer makes a decision not to return to life by crossing a barrier or threshold viewed as a 'point of no return,' but is restored to life anyway;
(7) hallucinatory imagery in NDEs, including encounters with mythological creatures and fictional characters; and
(8) the failure of predictions in those instances in which experiencers report seeing future events during NDEs or gaining psychic abilities after them.
In fact, among western cultures, stories of NDE so closely follow these lines most every time that at first examination, one might think there is outside power directing them along the same road. Studies in other parts of the world are starting to confirm that NDE in their regions also consistently follow a pattern … but that pattern varies depending on the culture involved.
A study was conducted in the 1970s in India, seeking and interviewing Hindus about NDEs. Forty-five people who had such experiences were found. Only one reported having seen his body from outside. Most insisted that they felt as though still in a physical body, and two “messengers” were escorting them along a path—some accounts insist this is the mafia form of “escorting” where the thugs get them by the elbows and drag them along. One, a man named Durga Jatav, tried to make a break for it, and his escorts cut off his legs prevent his escape. The messengers hauled the deceased into a field of white light, and to a desk, lectern, or similar which is manned by Yamraj, the Hindu god of the dead. Sometimes a charter of their life works were read off, but none reported the visual reliving of life as their western counterparts, and most reported a common means of being sent back to life, namely that of Yamraj pointing out that a mistake had been made. He was expecting someone of the same name in a different caste or town, or someone of the same description with a different name. Durga Jatav was allowed to pick his legs out a pile of discarded limbs, reattach them, then he, like the others, was escorted back and forced or pushed back into the body.
NDEs among Muslims differ from both the Hindu and Christian accounts. Several tenets of the Buddhist faith seem built on the act of death, and accordingly, their reports of NDE follow the faith for the most part. No two cultures have the exact same accounting of the experiences after death— though all share an allusion to a bright, clear light. Save that one common element, it would seem that the events that one encounters are more based on culture than on the machinations of an actual post-mortem process.
Native American NDE's have typical features from their culture like war eagles and mocassins thatNDE's from other cultures don't have:
http://uploads.pacifica.edu/gems/grothmarnat/CrossCulturalNDE.pdf (broken link)
I am sorry but your phrasing of this makes me unsure as to what you are actually claiming but.... it sounds to me like you are claiming that when people are dreaming they are actually GOING somewhere "else"... like some "other plane" or something? If so... thats priceless... it really is. Thanks for the giggle. If you have any actual evidence, argument, data or reasons to back any of that up I would love to hear it. If this is NOT what you mean though, can you re-phrase as I am lost.
You are magnetically coupled to your physical body temporarily. When it dies you will continue to exist, just not on earth. As such, when you dream, have a NDE, or astral project, you are changing your focus from the physical realm to the astral. Your body stays right where it is in the physical but what you really are is infact somewhere else.
I've experienced this first hand. I didn't believe it myself until I did it. It will change your life. And no I'm not trying to sell you something.
I can teach you how to do this. You should really attempt it before writing it off because people who think that this physical reality is it are in for a BIG surprise when they kick the bucket.
Even if we disregard the overwhelming evidence for the dependence of consciousness on the brain, there remains strong evidence from reports of near-death experiences themselves that NDEs are not glimpses of an afterlife. This evidence includes:
(1) discrepancies between what is seen in the out-of-body component of an NDE and what's actually happening in the physical world;
(2) bodily sensations incorporated into the NDE, either as they are or experienced as NDE imagery;
(3) encountering living persons during NDEs;
(4) the greater variety of differences than similarities between different NDEs, where specific details of NDEs generally conform to cultural expectation;
(5) the typical randomness or insignificance of the memories retrieved during those few NDEs that include a life review;
(6) NDEs where the experiencer makes a decision not to return to life by crossing a barrier or threshold viewed as a 'point of no return,' but is restored to life anyway;
(7) hallucinatory imagery in NDEs, including encounters with mythological creatures and fictional characters; and
(8) the failure of predictions in those instances in which experiencers report seeing future events during NDEs or gaining psychic abilities after them.
The real problem is the majority of people who choose to continue to disbelieve is that they do not understand what they're talking about. You write it off as pure hocus pocus.
1)There are discrepancies because in the astral realm immediately outside of your body thought equates to direct action. It can literally be as wild and crazy as anything you've ever dreamt about. Flying zebras, monsters, aliens, you name it.
2)There exists something called a phase shift. Phasing is one of the newer techniques for astral projection. Once good at it, which can take years of practice, an individual can be aware of the astral environment and the physical simultaneously. This is kind of how remote viewing works.
3)See number 1. Dreams can be anything you want them to be. The dream plane is the astral plane...it's just that during a NDE the user has full awareness whereas in a dream, it's like the blinders are pulled over until that individual can become consciously aware. As such, the person having the NDE can see and do ANYTHING that pops into their head immediately upon thinking about it.
4)See number 1 and 3. It is USER ORIENTED. Anything you think of will appear. It's really that simple. If someone dies and expects to see Mike Tyson as "God", then that is exactly what will happen. When a muslim dies and wants to see Allah, they do. When a christian dies and wants to see Jesus, they do. If someone dies and thinks they're going to hell, they do.
5)Millions of NDE's include a life review. Some of the people probably weren't "dead" long enough for it to trigger. All "humans" will have a life review when their physical carcass dies. You will experience in a few seconds every emotion you've ever inflicted upon everyone else, then you will judge yourself on what your next steps will be and how well you think you did.
6)Because the person didn't actually die. I can cross all kinds of strange barriers and flashing lights every single night while I astral project. Funny how I come back to the physical world every single time and have to deal with morons even though I don't want to.
7)This is really beating a dead horse at this point. When the stuff you are actually made of, which is not human, leaves it's physical vehicle, you can literally make anything appear that you want to...just like when you have dreams. The lower tiers of the astral environment are like a training ground...think training wheels on a bike. You could literally fly around all day as a chimera if you wanted to.
8)They can see whatever they want to. Most people having a NDE will remain in the lower tiers of the astral. A lot of them freak out and a guide shows up to temporarily help them until they return to their body. Often people who have a NDE mistake guides for "God" or "Allah" or "angels". They radiate light that is so bright you will be forced to avert your eyes.
The lower tiers of the astral are 100% meaningless. This is where most people who have an NDE, or astral project for that matter, end up. It's esentially like dreaming but being consciously aware of it.
I had a projection a couple months ago where I flew up several thousand miles above earth and flew around while listening to music for a little while. It was fun but totally meaningless. These kinds of things happen all the time when people have a NDE.
The only way people like you believe is when they physically experience it themselves. So you can be a naysayer all you like however, until you actually give it a shot and attempt it, you're really just blabbing about things you don't comprehend. If you want, I can show you a few different simple techniques to project. You should really try it out before writing it off.
If she is going to contact you, it will most likely be in your dreams or someone else who knows you/her.
I am hoping so. I did get a photo of an orb in the house when she started getting very bad. And there were other things, weird things that happened leading up to her having a stroke. Unexplainable things.
I'm keeping my eyes open. Thank you for your kindness and compassion. It's a very difficult time, to say the least.
Have I had a near-death experience?YES, more than once.
What was it like?IT WAS LIKE -- NOTHINGNESS. Instead, what I experienced was much more like a short period of "blankness" followed by a significant (and fairly stressful) "re-boot". Those who have been computer-savvy for the past 30 years will understand.
Have I let this alter my beliefs? Yes, but only in a small way.
A: Am I convinced that there is an afterlife? At the moment, not so much.
B: Do I hope and prepare for the possibility of an afterlife? Yes.
Meaning no disrespect to anyone of differing beliefs/experiences,
-- Nighteyes
Last edited by Nighteyes; 01-24-2011 at 12:00 PM..
Yes I've had two ndes and several other experiences (outside of ndes) that would be considered 'paranormal' events. I've also had extremely negative experiences with name calling from atheist 'skeptics' and have been accused of lying or fabricating details when they couldn't personally debunk my experiences. I've also had very negative experiences with diehard religonists when my personal experiences didn't match what their Bibles or religions tell them (Christians generally only want to believe they're saved so they get upset when evidence from ndes is the dead opposite) so in the end nothing gets gained from talking about these types of experiences. Yes I learnt this the hardway that ndes and other personal spiritual matters are best kept to yourself or those the closest to you.
However for my own personal reasons and experiences (I was skeptical myself at one time) this link is probally the most accurate take of what happens when you really die. Sorry to disappoint you religionists who believe your way is the only way. VICTOR ZAMMIT -- The Book - 29. What happens When we Die?
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