U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Unexplained Mysteries and Paranormal
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
 
 
Old 02-09-2011, 04:37 PM
 
4,515 posts, read 4,624,874 times
Reputation: 4056

Advertisements

Things I don't believe in: (no creditable evidence or not logical)

A god or gods
The soul
Life after death
Ghosts
ESP of any kind
Monsters (Bigfoot, Yeti, Loch Ness monster...etc)
Aliens visiting earth
Voodoo or witchcraft
faith healing
Atlantis

If you believe in any of the above why? Use logic and reason in your statement not faith in things unseen.

Or add to the list of things that many believe in that you have issues with.
Rate this post positively Quick reply to this message

 
Old 02-09-2011, 05:45 PM
 
Location: Pawnee Nation
7,525 posts, read 15,531,778 times
Reputation: 7054
That you don't "believe in" any such things is simply a matter of you not having had first hand experience with such things.

Periodically, in my 100+ year old house in the old Indian Nations, I smell tobacco smoke in the living room. No one living here smokes and no one is allowed to smoke inside. I assume a spirit/ghost is around and this is simply the manifestation of it. I identified it for what it was because of having experienced a similar smell in the St James Hotel in Cimarron New Mexico where the existence of ghosts is well documented.

I know there is a creator because I have conversations with him. Two way conversations. I know there is a continuum between lives that we live.

That you live in a world where no mystery lies, is rather sad. Thankfully I live in a wonderful world full of unexplained events, spirituality, and magic. As you can tell, I prefer my world of excitement, color, and spirituality.
Rate this post positively Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-09-2011, 05:53 PM
 
Location: Philippines
461 posts, read 537,194 times
Reputation: 220
Using the 7th definition of logic from the World English dictionary: the relationship and interdependence of a series of events, facts, etc., I will give you my thoughts on your list.

I provide you with this definition, because I wish to truncate the implied desire on your part for physical proof as the delimiting argument in this discussion.

First, this is personsal. I would never expect anyone else to believe nor even accept how I perceive my place or role in the real world.

1. God or gods.

Countless times in my life, there have been interventions by people who have been at the right place at the right time to help. Countless times, I have been fortunate enough to be at the right place at the right time to help people.

As one who tries to lay my life in the proverbial hands of my God, to accept the pleasantries of life as well as the storms with my God at the tiller, I have a baseline by which I can evaluate the events that have occurred (and are occurring) in my life.

Using logic, Event A occurs (good or bad being irrelevant). Since all things have a cause and effect relationship, I examine (or try to) the cause of this Event. Admittedly, I am not going to be perfect in discovering the exact cause(s), and this would stem from partly not being omniscient and the very human fallacy of shying from acceptance of blame.

Event A naturally evolves into Event B (which, if not good is rather interesting). Event B occurs without any input from me, or, at least from my limited perception, unrecognizable. Event B appears to be random; yet, not being a believer in random events, Event B is still beneficial to me as a whole person.

Example: my car breaks down in the middle of an intersection. Three people appear out of "nowhere" and push me a quarter of a kilometer to a gas station. As I am trying to figure out what might be wrong, a gentleman comes over and offers the services of his mechanic. I accept, but I also have to participate in a pool tournament. Instead of me returning to the gas station, this kind Good Samaritan brings the car to me.

Coincidence? I suppose that an argument can be made for coincidence. We can also be extremely synical--I mean, we are talking about human beings here--in which human beings do nothing out of the goodness of their hearts. Humans only look after number one, and that usualy invokes a high degree of ravaging and pillaging fellow human beings.

What caused Event A through Event X, and what was the interdependence and relationship between each Event. Since I happen to believe that God exists and that God is part and parcel of all human beings (vice an "Old Man" up in the sky), then I am led to believe that the God-force existent in all human beings acted in response to my dilemma (Event A) and continued to sustain me through Event X.

Now. If this had been the one and only such occurrence in my life, then it would be far easier to chalk up the Events as being coincidental. However, my life is full of these kind of occurrrences, and they happen/occur on a daily--even hourly--basis.

Note, too, that I have not delimited God or gods to a particularly favored stereotype, whereby the God or gods is independent and separated from the human species. Rather, I prefer to define God as being a central ingredient and force within the human community at large, the engine of life, if you will.
Rate this post positively Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-09-2011, 06:20 PM
 
Location: Philippines
461 posts, read 537,194 times
Reputation: 220
2. The soul.

One cannot, I feel, adequately argue for or against the soul in any kind of logical discussion. The search for the so-called soul is ages old, and still no one has been able to definitively prove its existence.[/SIZE]

Using a form of logic, however, one should start at the basic question: what is the purpose of life? Another question that has not been satisfactorily answered, although there have been a goodly number of entries.

Using a form of induction, what is it that people do?

a. They work for a goal, be it personal or societal.

b. They build towards a more progressive future.

]c. They examine inwardly as well as outwardly what they are, what they are all about, and why they are.

If we look at the other animals of this world, no other creature (that we know of) exhibits behavior incorporating a. through c. For countless eons, the animals have basically been doing “their thing” without much change. A little evolution here and there, a reaction to changing environmental factors: but to a large degree, no fundamental change in their overall existence.[/SIZE]

The whales and dolphins might be smart enough and aware enough to change their lifestyles as a society. And, why haven’t they?[/SIZE]

Only mankind has this rather crazy impetus to continue to evolve in so many dimensions. What forms or gives energy to this impetus? If mankind were simply an animal, then at some point it should have stopped progressing and “be happy” with its lot in life.

--------

Is this all there is?

The idea of a soul, something that transcends the material flesh and blood, is an idea that probably predates religion. It is not the invention of modern religion.[/SIZE]

I lean towards the thought that the more primitive a culture, the more in tune with the soul people are, as well as being more in tune with the Earth and the other animals, as well as the fauna. But the more modern people become, the more out of tune people become, even with themselves, to eventually begin denying that impetus spark lying deep within them. That, to me, is when the real dying begins.[/SIZE]

If after a lifespan of so many short years and then no soul to carry on, then fine; I was wrong. But if after a lifespan again of so many short years, and I find that my soul expanded with every encounter, every episode or event or occurrence in this short life, then I have expanded to greater potential, to greater “being.”

Forget about all the current and popular religious notions of heaven and hell and reincarnation. They have as little to do with the soul as little green men from Mars have to do with reality. The ancient Jews believed that the soul was comprised of a man’s deeds, words, thoughts, actions, everything that had to do with his involvement in life. If we just delimit the idea of a soul to that of the ancient Jew, then to deny the existence of a soul is tantamount to the denial of self. Yes?

Last edited by Wallisdj; 02-09-2011 at 06:26 PM.. Reason: Trying to get rid of all that [size] info
Rate this post positively Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-09-2011, 06:24 PM
 
4,172 posts, read 6,213,746 times
Reputation: 1209
Biggest reason to believe in god is that kids are brainwashed/exposed early into a religion. Then, they simply stick to it.

Look around, probably over 90% of the people are a certain religion because they were born into it. Very few convert to something substantially different. The key is to catch them young. After a 100 visits to the chuch/mosque/temple, this kid will not deviate from what s/he acquired at birth. At least some others OP mentioned (ghosts, faith healing, etc) may sometimes be as a result of religious stories.

Other explanations:
Loch Ness monster: good marketing by the locals
faith healing: gullible flock (they still have not figured to do something tangible like add limbs. They apparently can only cure unverifiable diseases)

Last edited by calmdude; 02-09-2011 at 06:44 PM..
Rate this post positively Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-09-2011, 06:35 PM
 
Location: Philippines
461 posts, read 537,194 times
Reputation: 220
4. Ghosts

As I posted in another thread, "seeing" is believing. And since I have been seeing and interacting with entities that we shall call ghosts since I can remember, then I do not believe IN ghosts; I know that ghosts exist.

5. ESP of any kind

I am sure that you, too, have experienced that feeling that you should take a particular action or suffer an unpleasant result.

Again, this is at a personal level. What kind of proof would it be if I merely kept a journal of all the ESP feelings that I have felt over the past six decades?

People would simple state that given the law of odds, I came out on top more often than not. But I was not specific enough.

That other people demand proof in some physical form: I could care less.

When my brain tells me that it would be a good idea to take something with me to work or school and I dismiss it, then I have no one to blame than myself for the consequences. If I had a dollar for every time I did not listen to that little voice in my head, I wouldn't have to work.

Thus, as far as the logic goes, the relationship between listening and not listening to that little voice in my head reinforces for me--and again, it is only me that I have to be concerned about in this case--that whatever ESP that exists within my frame is powerful enough to pay attention to.
Rate this post positively Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-09-2011, 06:47 PM
 
Location: Golden, CO
2,108 posts, read 2,629,596 times
Reputation: 1022
Quote:
Originally Posted by Goodpasture View Post
That you don't "believe in" any such things is simply a matter of you not having had first hand experience with such things.

"If You Had Experienced It, You'd Believe Too" Nonsense

Mormons say that once you experience the Spirit testify to you that something is true, it is pretty hard to convince yourself that you did not feel the Spirit. I felt what I used to call the Spirit many times, I now feel forced by the evidence to have to think differently about those powerful experiences. I now believe that those experiences are produced entirely by the biological brain.

When I was nine, I had an experience that I interpreted as being visited by an angel. I no longer interpret it that way. When I was 14 years old, my mother passed away. On the day of my marriage in the temple, I believed I felt her presence there. I now believe that that experience was entirely produced by my brain.

Experiences are always vulnerable to reinterpretation when we adopt a new perspective. So, the argument that "if you had only experienced what I have experienced, then you'd believe" does not have any validity for me.
Rate this post positively Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-09-2011, 08:02 PM
 
6,928 posts, read 10,788,355 times
Reputation: 9498
Quote:
Originally Posted by mikebnllnb View Post
Things I don't believe in: (no creditable evidence or not logical)

A god or gods
The soul
Life after death
Ghosts
ESP of any kind
Monsters (Bigfoot, Yeti, Loch Ness monster...etc)
Aliens visiting earth
Voodoo or witchcraft
faith healing
Atlantis

If you believe in any of the above why? Use logic and reason in your statement not faith in things unseen.

Or add to the list of things that many believe in that you have issues with.
So because you haven't seen those things your willing to discredit over half a billion accounts all over the world of everything you listed that people have claimed they experienced and saw? Really? So I guess that means I should throw out gravity, oxygen, and that little thing called love that I suppose you believe in as well right? I mean you MUST be crazy to believe in something that you have NEVER seen. This has to be one of the most pathetic posts I have read in a while. So I guess your also prepared to dismiss MILLIONS of NDE accounts, faith healing that have been video documented, biblical prophecies that have been fufilled, millions of accounts of ghost seen, millions of accounts of UFOs witnessed, millions of accounts of demonic presences that have been felt and people who were possessed, and basically all supernatural accounts? I'd say you are the crazy one to me. To discredit religious accounts because you are an Atheist is one thing, but to discredit the entire WORLD that comprises people of different beliefs and backgrounds all who report the SAME THINGS going generations back into history is absolutely ridiculous. Even the most highly regarded scientist believe in the supernatural. You've got to be kidding me on this one.
Rate this post positively Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-09-2011, 08:08 PM
 
6,928 posts, read 10,788,355 times
Reputation: 9498
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hueffenhardt View Post

"If You Had Experienced It, You'd Believe Too" Nonsense

Mormons say that once you experience the Spirit testify to you that something is true, it is pretty hard to convince yourself that you did not feel the Spirit. I felt what I used to call the Spirit many times, I now feel forced by the evidence to have to think differently about those powerful experiences. I now believe that those experiences are produced entirely by the biological brain.

When I was nine, I had an experience that I interpreted as being visited by an angel. I no longer interpret it that way. When I was 14 years old, my mother passed away. On the day of my marriage in the temple, I believed I felt her presence there. I now believe that that experience was entirely produced by my brain.

Experiences are always vulnerable to reinterpretation when we adopt a new perspective. So, the argument that "if you had only experienced what I have experienced, then you'd believe" does not have any validity for me.
Wow. Talk about denial. So because you became an Atheist, all of sudden your mother's presence wasn't real? And you attribute her true spirit to your brain? The only one fooling yourself is you. That is too sad.
Rate this post positively Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-09-2011, 08:15 PM
 
Location: Middletown, New York
83 posts, read 161,714 times
Reputation: 33
I believe in reincarnation. I think we all were something or someone before the person we are now.
I believe I was a roach. :x
I strongly believe in aliens too.
Rate this post positively Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


 
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:
Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Unexplained Mysteries and Paranormal
Similar Threads

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2021, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Contact Us - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37 - Top