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Old 08-03-2011, 05:32 PM
Status: "Cael Diwrnod Llawen" (set 5 days ago)
 
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A little off topic but in the ballpark, what about people having an "Out Of Body" experience (this tends to happen in an operation where the patient actually "dies" for awhile in a medically controlled environment as part of the proceedure) and they hover over their bodies and can see themselves and anyone else that may be present?

Some people have the white light experience and the hovering together.
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Old 08-03-2011, 06:23 PM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
15,511 posts, read 15,171,135 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ShouldIMoveOrStayPut...? View Post
A little off topic but in the ballpark, what about people having an "Out Of Body" experience (this tends to happen in an operation where the patient actually "dies" for awhile in a medically controlled environment as part of the proceedure) and they hover over their bodies and can see themselves and anyone else that may be present?

Some people have the white light experience and the hovering together.
I doubt if it is any metaphysical experience, but I will not deny for some people it may be such. For most people I believe there is a natural explanation. These things seem to always happen in an operating room. The person is usually an adult and reasonably well educated. I suspect the anesthesia did not cause full unconsciousness, but the person is more like in a state similat to REM sleep and has a degree of awareness but it has a dream=like quality and the memory does not become clear until the person wakes up. The curare that is used as a muscle relaxant for surgery does cause a sensation of flying or floating.

It should be noticed that these out of body events are usually in an operating room, gives reason to suspect it is related more to the operation, than anything metaphysical.
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Old 08-03-2011, 11:21 PM
 
223 posts, read 246,716 times
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Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
Yes . . . I knew the answer to my question . . . but you apparently didn't understand the question. ALL evidence is processed through our biological processes which can be traced very specifically to activity of the brain . . . ALL evidence has the same correlates. Why dismiss these as "just brain function" . . . everything IS just brain function no matter how much or how little consensus (processed through the same brain functions) exists.
I don't even think YOU understand your question.

By the way, you realize "correlates" is a verb, right?

No, not everything is brain function. Some sh** is happening: Like a train coming at you at 45 mph. Some sh** is not happening: like Jesus beckoning you to heaven as you're dying.
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Old 08-03-2011, 11:29 PM
 
53,321 posts, read 32,033,069 times
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Originally Posted by OreNative78 View Post
I don't even think YOU understand your question.
By the way, you realize "correlates" is a verb, right?
It is so tedious dealing with ignorance. It is a noun, verb, adjective depending on its use.
cor·re·late
noun
Definition of CORRELATE
1: either of two things so related that one directly implies or is complementary to the other (as husband and wife)

2: a phenomenon that accompanies another phenomenon, is usually parallel to it, and is related in some way to it <precise electrical correlates of conscious thinking in the human brain — Bayard Webster>
Quote:
No, not everything is brain function. Some sh** is happening: Like a train coming at you at 45 mph. Some sh** is not happening: like Jesus beckoning you to heaven as you're dying.
How do you know about the latter . . . scientifically?
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Old 08-03-2011, 11:40 PM
 
223 posts, read 246,716 times
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Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
How do you know about the latter . . . scientifically?
Same way you don't.
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Old 08-03-2011, 11:52 PM
 
16,308 posts, read 26,640,645 times
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Originally Posted by Theophane View Post
This is why athests are disliked.
Truth is never welcome in the house of fantasy. The problem is not ours, but those that uncomfortable with reality.
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Old 08-04-2011, 12:06 AM
 
Location: earth?
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Interesting that people focus on certain aspects of the NDE experience and neglect others . . . how do you account for a flatlined patient recounting experiences in the room - particular conversations, actions, etc. These are reported as taking place from a vantage point above the body . . .

Also, many atheists, after having an NDE become spiritual . . . because of the EXPERIENCE . . . you can read all you want about anything in books, but once you have had a spiritual experience, you are changed. There is no further argument, because you "know" - it is a known, felt experience . . .
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Old 08-04-2011, 12:11 AM
 
Location: earth?
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Originally Posted by Woodrow LI View Post
I doubt if it is any metaphysical experience, but I will not deny for some people it may be such. For most people I believe there is a natural explanation. The person is usually an adult and reasonably well educated. I suspThese things seem to always happen in an operating room. ect the anesthesia did not cause full unconsciousness, but the person is more like in a state similat to REM sleep and has a degree of awareness but it has a dream=like quality and the memory does not become clear until the person wakes up. The curare that is used as a muscle relaxant for surgery does cause a sensation of flying or floating.

It should be noticed that these out of body events are usually in an operating room, gives reason to suspect it is related more to the operation, than anything metaphysical.
You just stated a bunch of gibberish, with absolutely no back-up, and you state these things as fact - I have highlighted your "factual" statements. Please quote your sources!

Person is "usually an adult"
You say the anesthesia creates a dream state
You say the anesthesia creates a sensation of flying or floating

Who ever said anything about flying or floating anyway? The reports I have read said the person is above their body looking down at the table, not flying around the room . . .

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Old 08-04-2011, 07:11 AM
 
5,460 posts, read 6,306,959 times
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Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
Why dismiss these as "just brain function"
Because there's lots of reason to think that it's just brain function and no evidence at all that it is indicative of anything external. It's the same reason we dismiss drug or injury induced hallucination as "just brain [mal]function" instead of blindly assuming that drunken visions of pink elephants are really evidence of the fabled Invisible Pink Unicorn [pbuh], creator and sustainer of all known and unknown.
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Old 08-04-2011, 07:26 AM
 
5,460 posts, read 6,306,959 times
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Originally Posted by imcurious View Post
[b][color=DarkOrchid]Interesting that people focus on certain aspects of the NDE experience and neglect others . . . how do you account for a flatlined patient recounting experiences in the room - particular conversations, actions, etc. These are reported as taking place from a vantage point above the body . . .
Brain death happens a while after the heart stops. What's surprising about people with working (but admittedly impaired) brains remembering things that happened?

Quote:
Also, many atheists, after having an NDE become spiritual . . .
I thought it was well known that brain damage from hypoxia or other trauma can lead to personality changes. No surprise here either - you mess with the organ which produces consciousness and consciousness changes. No different than injuring a leg can cause you to change how you walk.

Quote:
Who ever said anything about flying or floating anyway? The reports I have read said the person is above their body looking down at the table, not flying around the room . . .
So they weren't floating but they were floating above their body. Gibberish, you say?
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